Does Phoenix "break" game play?

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
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#1 You say this but then go on and on about how Phoenix is so tough and unbeatable and whine “What can you do against a level3 XF DPh?” it sounds like you’re looking for a reason to justify your waaaahing.
#2 She’s not broken. Her taking advantage of the system is not broken. There are ways around her as have been said in this thread, in this forum, and across the site.
#3 This isn’t a one-vs-one game.

And #4, I’m so sick and tired of guys coming in here and whining about Phoenix. For god’s sake kids, she’s not the end-all and be-all. Nobody seems to give a shit about her flaws or you just overlook them. “Yeah her health sucks, BUT LOOK AT THIS!” I’m sorry, but if you guys want to continue to play stupid and walk right into the train of XF3 DPh then the bottom line is, if you get fucked up, it is probably your fault.

But this is NOT a bad thing to say. It’s ok. Because you can still go to the lab and go over the matchup and find out what works and what doesn’t work and how to work the matchup into your favor.

But I think the thing that really pisses me off is the fact that people don’t want to try to get around her or snap her in or use their brains. No. You just wanna say “WAAAAH! She’s BROKE!” so you can hope Capcom “fixes” her with a nerf.

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

Mikeomak, I’m sorry, but this thread smells of whine. 1 incredibly flawed and risky character who temporarily becomes God Tier can not break this game. Maybe if Dark Phoenix NEVER lost health you could say she breaks the game. Maybe if Jean had 800 health, you could say she breaks the game.

And even then… Phoenix is STILL not the problem and she still doesn’t “break gameplay” by making you think (Oh god how horrible it is to try to think your way through a matchup.) It’s XF3 that would need to tinkered with.

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So would you rather me not try to prove my argument about why I think shes broken?

There’s ways around everything in every game. It’s not just that she takes advantage of the system, it’s that it breaks her beyond being able to play against her. Even people that don’t believe shes broken believe this (which i find a little odd and I think it’s due to the whole "scrubs ban things"stigma)

I don’t recall saying it was. But go ahead and try to call an assist against Phoenix and see what happens. She forces it to be a 1v1 game with her being at an extreme advantage. Even when it’s 3v1 and Phoenix is the last character your at a huge disadvantage. Activate Xfactor level 1 or 2 and you have a huge amount of time where you’ll take large amounts chip damage. You don’t then you take large amount of chip. When your character dies and comes in they CAN’T activate xfactor and must take the chip and if its your 2nd character your still at a disadvantage if you activate xfactor level 2. 3rd character comes in if you didn’t activate xfactor you take the chip, if you did your have less time on your xfactor. Not to mention everytime you come in your going into a mix-up to death combo thats almost impossible to react to.

To start I didn’t put this thread here it was redirected here. Name a flaw other than her health is low, which hardly matters(I’m not saying it DOESN’T matter, and i’m not overlooking it.) because the opportunities to hit her are so little. The last part of this i’m not going to respond to because “stop playing stupidly” and “It’s your own fault” don’t add to this at all.

Like other people have said (like Deviljin) there is no match-up to learn. You hope to get lucky with being random. How is this a match-up to learn?
I discussed in the first post how snapping her in is an option and how a Phoenix team would have no problem raw tagging in and taking the damage with the other character to build meter while getting hit. Theres nothing to learn with Phoenix. You have to snap in and hope your mix-up works or if not your in the same situation, and when shes last character with a little more then 4 meter there is no match-up to learn. Even when she doesn’t have 4 meter the match-up is “random her out before she gets 5 meter”.

As i said before low health is really not that big of a flaw when you have all the other tools. She has no other flaws. The temporary 20 second God Tier is enough to be broken when you can kill all 3 character in that amount of time. She DOESN’T lose health with Xfactor, and if you have full health Phoenix with 5 meters she has 800 health and requires 2 combos to be killed due to the explosion when she turns dark.

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The problem is, you’re not trying to prove your argument. You just have an endless line of excuses rewording how you think she’s unbeatable without giving ANY actual display that you know how she works. The fact that you actually think Phoenix (regular) WANTS to get hit once she gets five or that assists don’t work against her is dumb as all fuck.

The funny thing is, I got into a debate with Invincible Swordsman ways earlier as I always thought Dark Phoenix breaks the game with XFC 3 but NONE of your reasons are justified. There is a matchup to learn, you just don’t want to believe it in order to justify your whine post.

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Whatever you do against regular Dark Phoenix, except you probably can’t punish without doing something clever.

Without x-factor, you probably can’t actually block the teleport mixup on reaction, and a good player will kill you. As far as I’m concerned, finishing the job in three hits just builds less meter.

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Excuses? Like what? I’m pretty sure when I was talking about her getting hit it was in the context of if she has less health and your going for a timeout.

What was your argument? That I posted something about Phoenix in another thread?

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Actually the fact that she has like no health is a VERY big flaw, as she can get caught with a plethora of long range/full screen supers (like Ammy elements, Storm’s Hail Storm, Thor’s Mighty Thunder, and Shinkuu Hadoken) and if she gets caught, SHE IS DEAD. You don’t get another shot if you get caught. Some characters like Zero still have insane jumping normals that STILL out-prirotize DPh’s shit at the right time. And if you’re caught, you’re getting combo’d and then you are DEAD. Where with any other character, random hits just annoy you, random shit kills Phoenix. This is a LEGITIMATE STRATEGY.

One good anticipatory XFGC and you are dead.
One good guess of a teleport and you are dead.

You want another flaw? Hey… what exactly is Phoenix’s get-off-me move? You know how many times I’ve been turned into DPh only to have Doom’s missiles launched in anticpation of the DPh activation? I can’t go all out because it’s too risky to take that damage. And just as I get away/block the missiles, X-23 activates Dirt Nap, and if I’m in block stun, I lose.

Akuma can pretty much spam :qcb::k: and if I’m in the air, shooting fireballs, he’s just gonna cut right through them on his way to me and then cancel into super and I AM DEAD. Heaven forbid I actually block the thing and not follow which friggin HK version he did and I end up pushblocking at the wrong time. Then I get locked down with him at + frames and nothing I can do about it because I don’t have anything that can get someone off me.

But hey… that’s ok. Phoenix is too good. Just crawl into a ball and hope for a change in Super MvC3. Why bother trying to figure something out?

This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:

I have maintained since this game 1st came out (hell even BEFORE that) that Jean is the single best character in the game. I have also maintained that she is stupid good in XF3 as DPh. But she is not unbeatable. She is not broken. She has flaws. And she brings down the team if you want to be the strongest character in this game AKA XF3 DPh. You have to figure out not just what can I do with my team to stop someone from getting that character on the field. But also, what can I do if she hits the field, what do Phoenix players usually do, etc so you can come up with a strategy/gameplan.

But if you don’t want to do any of those things, and if doing those things “breaks gameplay” then maybe you should consider playing a different game. Do you play Halo 2 without the sword too?

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I didn’t have to say much because other people have said stuff already that you just chose to ignore because “She can continually approach/zone you, chip you out, mix you up and if you do end up “killing her” she gets the life advantage and is stronger.” is your mindset. How do you respond to something like that? Basically in your mind, she is an invincible character because apparently her having low life “doesn’t matter” nor the fact that her team is weakened up. Also her trying to chip you out is one of the WORST Dark Phoenix strats as the amount of options teams have to counter that is built into the game based off XFC guard cancel (she can’t counter XFC cancel if she blew her level 3 as you claimed). There are moments where I’ve seen Dark Phoenix take games dirtier than they deserved but I’ve seen FAR FAR more people who just randomly complain about not being able to win against Dark Phoenix when they’ve been outplayed since the beginning. You should be up at least a one character advantage if not two against a team that doesn’t blow supers.

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Yeah the scariest Phoenix teams are the ones that actually burn super but find ways to build it back up. They are the biggest threat since you can scare them with meter burn while showing that you are capable of still building her back up to 5 bars. There’s a risk of her dying but you can kill off the capabilities of your opponent to kill Dark Phoenix even faster if you plan your meter right.

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Phoenix is balanced imo. She can die in one combo. (if she does not have a homing fireball out, or 5 bars.) If she turns into Dark phoenix then she starts looses health on her own! (if you don’t have xfactor, or her self healing super up.) Sure she has the power to kill anyone in the game in one combo, but everyone can kill her in one combo too. She might be the hardest character to hit with a teleports, traps, and homing fireballs, but she needed something. And if you can’t figure out what side I’m teleporting to when I have traps out, while you can’t see me because I’m so low to the ground. Or my 50/50 super jump/fly/teleport mix up with homing fireballs on the screen while in level 3xf, then you are the problem and you need to adapt. L2P.

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If you watched the streams the other day Philipino Champ got bodied two diffrent times in teams with his opponent only losing half a charaters life bar. He then activates lvl 3 x factor and begins to wipe both of there teams in a matter of a few seconds. Don’t get me wrong champ is a good player, but that is ridiculous.Your going to tell these players that they need to learn to play?

As for the bolder section name what you would do? It’s a 50/50 and if you block correctly you get chipped to death (unless xfactor is activated) or if you do something else the homing fire ball hits you. There is no adapting to that.

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Sarcasm is hard to do on the internet. I was just making fun of what I see on this site all the time, people trying to justify bullshit. Phoenix is bullshit and should be ban, but the community has blinders on or something. And yes I know there is no adapting, she literally breaks game play. I’m glad you have a brain and see this also. The ONLY time I saw a phoenix lose was if the other person did a random move, and hopefully got lucky and connected. How is that remotely fair? lol

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If you ban Phoenix then you should ban Wolverine too. He’s actually just as ridiculous with XF. The main problem with this game is XF. It makes some characters just ridiculously powerful with the most basic three stooges bullshit.

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The issue is not that it makes Phoenix ridiculous. Its that it breaks Phoenix to the point that you can’t play against her.

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Without X-factor,Dark Phoenix would get chipped to death by almost any 3 part DHC. X factor should work differently with her, or just get toned down as a whole.

Probably the later because every character on Lvl3 X factor can kill in half a combo.

Edit: It is possible to fight Phoenix. Call something OP if you want (that’s exactly what it is) but broken is a bit much.

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Its possible to fight anything. It’s just a matter of how difficult it is.

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And that’s just it. If difficulty is the factor then it’s unwarranted whining.

Phoenix requires less work than most characters; shes easier to play. If the opponent knows what they are doing she can die just as easily. Its all about the mistakes you make, and the opportunities you siege.

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By that logic Gill and Akuma shouldn’t be banned in their respective games. You can still beat them it’s just extremely difficult. What you said is very generic and I don’t really see how its showing that shes not “broken”.

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The only way to beat ST Akuma is to unplug the other players stick. Dead serious here.

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The situation is just as black and white as my responses are. If you can tell me how Phoenix makes the game unplayable then I’ll agree that she is broken.

Overpowered vs broken is my problem. People cry to much about the difficulty level of things way to often.

To answer the OP, No. She changes the gameplay without making it unplayable. At least I can get excited over something other than a X factor comeback. Its exciting that a character that dies in one combo can destroy a whole team. I enjoy it is all… just my opinion.

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^Turtling for 30 Marvel seconds to outlast an unpredictable and strong glass cannon is enjoying to watch?