damn i had a loooong ass counter post written but i lost it, WTFFFFFFF, maybe ill write it again when i have some time
hot DAMN I think we have a winna!!! 
And I’m tired of the SNK fans saying how stupid of a top this is. If there wasnt the SLIGHTEST bit of truth to the statement then this thread wouldnt still be alive pushing 2 weeks old.
I’m not an SNK fan, and I think this topic is stupid.
Todo and Nakoruru are actually quite possibly the highest tiered SNK characters in the game. Nako’s not uber-broken like she was in CvS1, but she’s definitely above a lot of those characters you listed.
Vice, Athena and Mai should be above mid-tier.
I beg to differ, Nak or Todo are not better then Athena/Kyo/Geese/Yama/Iori/Hibiki/Rock.
Joe is still the most underutilized character in the game.
Although Todo does have some nasty things he can do there is no doubt about that.
You ever think that maybe the topic was so stupid you still have us scratching our heads as to what the fuck made you come up with such a topic? Even if the characters do seem more versatile in CVS than KOF, you are forgetting that a good bit of the characters came from Garou(I can name at least five), one from Art Of Fighting, and in Haohmaru and Nakoruru’s case, Samurai Shodow. To say a character is better because of one game done by a different company when said character has been in numerous incarnations and has probably seen some ups and downs is fucking stupid and a bit short-sighted. Athena alone has been in at least six games, each one probably having some tweak for Capcom to base her off of. They fucked up, and on one of the easiest characters to convert. Haohmaru and Nakoruru have been in at least three, Capcom did a wonderful job on some probably more difficult characters considering how SS works. There are three examples listed. In order for Capcom to do SNK better than SNK, do the results not need to be consistent and uniform? A few versatility upgrades that probably were a direct result from better hardware is hardly a declaration of superiority.
not my tier list
take it up with buk on the ongoing tier thread =P
It’s an opinion, but I think it’s just a sign as to how good the game is. If it takes players 3 years to clean a game out of everything available, and the game doesn’t completely degrade, then the base game is probably fairly well designed. Furthermore, the game had enough for players to experiment with and find for 3 years, that’s substance.
Some games start to degrade and become worse as they grow. The worst example of this is SvC Chaos. Not only did it degrade as more was found, but it did so extremely quickly. 3rd Strike and CvS2 never degraded, even though highly dangerous bugs and tactics were found in both games.
To be fair, KOF2k2 is a good example of an SNK game that hasn’t really degraded as it has aged. I still think it peaked earlier then CvS2, but it’s still a good offering.
You’re ridiculous, and still ignored the fact that I had already provided examples. I also told you I would answer your question after you made the effort to read over my examples, but hey, you didn’t.
Regardless, Sabin provided examples, and I agree with what was said for the most part.
Ultima: I think that Rugal’s reflector is better because of it’s secondary use. Sure, in KOF it’s alot better as a actual reflector move, but in cvs2 it gives him a sizeable frame advantage on block which is decent as they are waking up. it allows him to setup/land his more damaging setups/initiate throw games due to the moves quick recovery/tricky dash. godpress sucks on block in both games but we all know in cvs2 you can do way more on a connected godpress than you can in kof (you can’t do anything iirc.)
if you read the stuff i wrote you saw that i didn’t diss the real snk players and i recognize that alot of them dont speak english. the ones that speak english don’t do anything for the most part to foster a competitive environment EXCEPT for orochinagi (so it’s really no surprise that they are hosting kof cyberfanatics, which is one of the better kof sites out there.)
they have been recognized but you see, that’s exactly part of the reason why snk community gets shitted on all the time (the english speaking ones.)
a good 90% of the time it is their own fault, let me tell you, and i’m probably bein quite generous with that. A large # of the people that supposedly represent competitve SNK are generally idiots (K4/Sad Smile/K999 anyone? haha.) THE ANSWER and his peeps are actually okay, though. 
kof scene is pretty crappy here unless you live in New York City, or California, or supposedly San Antonio, except that they won’t travel for a kof tourney that’s 2 hours away from them. :lame: NY/Cali (southern california) actually have scenes to the game due to the large Asian/Hispanic communities that reside in both areas, but that’s about it for comp from what i’ve seen (and i’ve pretty much been everywhere in the US that would even have any kind of FG scene.)
thats your first problem, you’re trying to play it like kof when its not like kof at all. iori cant short jump c or d foos all day you have to recognize the fact that antiairs actually work somewhat. i mean once you get past that, then you can get somewhere.
it’s been noted that N-Iori is hella good, look at Buktooth’s placings across the nation recently (4th at Texas Showdown 5 with top Japanese/US players in attendance, 1st at Final Round 8 which was like last week. Iori is hella good in this game even if he has a few bad matchups.) I placed top 8 at Texas Showdown as well with K-Yamazaki and also C-Todo. Yamazaki did most of my damage while for the most part my Sagat and Blanka (despite them being top tier) didn’t hold it down as well. Take that as you will
i wrote a little yama writeup on page 2 or 3 if you want to bother reading it.
i’m intermediate level at best, i’m not a top player in my area at the game (i get fucked up by the experts pretty badly but i can hold my own at times. and yeah the kof chars would feel weird or stiff to me when i first started playing. they sure did in svc, but svc sucked so i’d give you a benefit of the doubt on that. but you know what? i’d adapt and try to work with what the engine has to offer. SNK players often quit before they get to that point. i mean…when i first played kof i thought it was garbage, but once i learned the engine (in 98) i didn’t think it was so bad after all.
you really ignored alot of the examples i gave to you about cvs2 vice, read them over again man.
it’s better for antiair in cvs2 than it is in kof. in kof you obviously gotta do far d early when you are predicting a shortjump. in cvs you can use it as actual antiair against some jumpins on reaction not to mention its alot faster in coming out. btw im not sure if you understand the concept of footsies or not but far stand d is not really all that great in footgames if you think about the angle it hits at for a second. and it is slow. if you miss, you obviously get punished and its not like it hits mid. (for capcom players, that’s vice’s standing rh.)
i know you meant f+a but i was trying to not to list specific combos just for the sake of argument. for the record kof vice has more damaging combos than cvs vice but that doesn’t make her more fun to play, i know that’s subjective though.
stand c is the only move i can use for footgames. that and like stand b. but they are both hella slow, vice’s stand b is no yashiro/beni stand B and vice’s stand C is no athena low c (even though vice’s stand c hits mid iirc.) but then again, vice is not top tier in either game.
i already listed before that vices shorts and jabs in cvs are a lot better since they come out faster + counterhit game.
well yeah you can combo it in cvs2 as well… btw what you said is really kind of deceptive. you can only use low b as antiair against specific jumpins, like say early iori hop jump D. just like how Whip can low b into super on reaction off that move. and plus if they do nothing, or they do a different jumpin move (like yashiro jump c, kula jump c, any jumpin that angles torwards the ground…person going on offense can block if they do nothing, or vice gets stuffed!
i think the correct term you are looking for is tripguard…for capcom heads, a similar situation in cvs2 would be when blanka uses slide to hit sagat as he is doing jumping RH, or chun doing low strong xx super to sagat jump rh. but we don’t say it antiairs cause obviously if empty jump, and block/jd/parry then…
well yeah her command throws do more damage in kof. But I dunno, I don’t think you can exactly beat a invincible command throw that vice has in cvs2 combined with the fact that the whiffed version in cvs2 has alot better recovery.
well yeah i know about that setup. if you’ve never seen it before it will hit you since you don’t know you have to block high and you might not know about the gap. if you delay the f+a you can roll backward since it doesn’t combo. low D is still alot better in cvs2 as a all purpose move though. its not like in kof you are always gonna do low d into comboed fwd a or delayed fwd a. i didn’t bother talking about parlor tricks just for the sake of the argument, i was only talking about 100% guaranteed setups since in theory fighter, you can make anyone sound hella good just on parlor trick setups alone.
btw you never addressed my points about vice’s shoulder ram being alot better in cvs as a all purpose move (including antiair) and the points i addressed about vice’s super and all the different ways that you can set it up (not to mention, if you whiff the super you actually jump back, unlike kof.)
wow i actually wrote alot more than this before my post got deleted lol, but i’m lazy
yeah, you speak english.
what an ignorant dude. So Im an idiot eh ? man, I guess you are still living in your cloudy dreams thinking that coz u beat me in a broken game using a broken a character you have earned the right to be considered a good snk fighter ? … haha … the name of my team is the K4orce asshole coz i =m one of its active members, I play with Eric the beast and Oscar the Answer ( yeah the ones that beated the crap out of you and J. Wong at texas … oh by the way, the Kforce thank you guys for the $100 donation to us 
)all the time and my level is getting higher and higher in kof 2002. Im not competitive ? … have u looked at your level ? … I saw the videos man, you dont have mind games, setups or shit … shut up and dont bull next time ok ?
mmm … of a scale from 1 ( lowest)to 10 ( highest ) Ill give you a 3.
Level 1 is for the guys that KNOW that they are playing a fighting game and its named KOF ( yeah theres Kyo, iori, etc … )
Level 2 is for the guys that besides knowing everything from the ones in level 1, know some characters movelists … players at this level that also now how to do supers are level 2.5.
Level 3 is everything from the abve plus they know how to do basic two in ones like ioris s.C into qcf+P or athenas c.C into qcb+C.
Congratulations !
Just stay in your CVS2 man … dont talk about other fighters you dont know shit about … especially the people that plays KOF seriously.
P.S. yah Im back
Rut row.
OOOOOOoooo It’s on now
but I hope your not one of the san antonio people that couldnt’ make it to ts5
that was sad
I live in Socal. I got 2 members of my team on san Antonio for the tourney and they represented us.
And yeah, it was sad that the people in texas that actually plays for real KOF 2k2 didnt show up ( dont know their reasons, if they cant show up for a tourney in their hometown, how are the cannons here at SRK gonna believe that they will show up at EVO 2005 eh ? :tdown:
The Beast and the Answer were kinda dissapointed coz the only players they saw at the tourney were Justin and Arturo = low level matches ( kof speaking ).
yo k4ever how many members are in k-force. yo art stop running from in kof.
Don’t know about all that
I doubt all the kof players in houston would be complaining about
san antonio not showing up if they weren’t there themselves (unless they were playing other kofs)
I dont’ play kof i play marvel (even then… meh) but I just thought that was pretty sad what happened when they said they didn’t show up when I can only assume they said they would.
Shrug
Sry to be kinda instigitating (if you can call it that) but I thought this would be pretty damn interesting
I apologise for the mistake in combo.
Edits
gets pwned by Sabin.
I use Vice’s qcb punch much as a weaker version of Iori’s Aoi Hana in 2k2 as it has good speed.
Very well, perhaps I need to play more CvS2. makes mental note.
Maybe the key is really adaptation though I must admit though you do know how to construct your arguments. Impressive.
However who plays better in which games mostly depends on taste and past preferences.
Nice discussion.
oh shit its my nigga k9999!!! coming out from the woodworks and shit. its good to see that you’ve been in hiding after getting assraped by all of us at srk, welcome back!
last i checked i saw my own matches and my matches vs eric the beast werent too bad, lost to oscar by a pixel in my own money match and i lost to both of them in tourney in both tourney matches but i got raped in the final round. i got raped in the $50 money match though and only justin did work really.
lol, who the fuck are you to talk about donations? first we lost 60$ not 100$. 2nd i can take my losses like a man and we actually keep our words on bets you faggot. Cause IIRC I remember Buktooth playing you for money in SVC, YOU LOSING AND NOT PAYING UP.
you’re one to talk considering how you get absolutely raped in tourneys in games that noone plays here to boot. last i remember you talked mad shit and got raped by your own boys. and you talk so much shit to the point where ppl in your area wanted to beat your ass before you finally shut the fuck up. i never said i was top tier at kof, remember. You successfully lose in your own games, and at life.
btw dont spam up this thread any more, youre making your peoples look bad, and youre only gonna get banned from this site type quick, since all you do is spam, and talk shit about how snk rules or something
^ did i not say it was on now?
DID I NOT SAY IT WAS ON NOW?!!!
AM I NOT MERCIFUL!!!
empyrian: good to hear that i opened your eyes up some