i do get what your sayin doe
If that’s the best reasoning you got to why cyke loses the matchup then you must not really play cyke much at all. That is hardly convincing. Anyway, this talk won’t lead anywhere. Just leave IM at top tier 5th and be done with it.
theres alot of people mentioning what a character can do on point. Even though that may justify some of the arguement, top tier placement is also going to come down to team function. IE, how well does that person work with the team. you better believe that if strider had an AA, he would be god tier easy. The only thing missing from strider is team function. It sucks really because he’s god like.
cyke vs IM as an assist is almost a joke. I’m has pretty solid AA that hits for big life, but its not fast nor does it have any invincibility. When its out though, it can create some problems. Also, IM has that point in time during his AA where he’s still in animation and he can be he hit for free + the taunt time.
However, cyke is AA is 3\4 screen **INVINCIBLE **poke with combo potential and if the opponents point character is less thatn 3\4 screen away, like 1\2 screen, cyke will cover his own exit because he goes behind the opponent. You don’t really need to protect him in most cases if you use him right.
when you stack up cyke to IM side by side. IM may have the upper hand in most cases because honestly he’s really one touch kill anywhere on the screen if you have unfly? I don’t know much about IM but if he can unfly, refly air to ground infinite i’m picking him. Anyway, cyke can also put a fight against a majority of the cast. Give me any character with a double jump, good priority, good supers, beefy easy combos and i’ll make it work somehow.
Both of them really have good priority.
Cyke has the better supers.
cyke PROVIDES better team function. More than IM ever will.
IM great fighter > ok assist
cyke great fighter > great assist
since marvel is team based, looking @ how a character will contribute to the team as well as fight with the team are both important aspects of decidings whos the best. If point play was the only thing that really mattered, strider would easily be top 4 ahead of cable but he’s not. Cable gots him because cable has the better teams and better team chemistry. Strider is forced to pick doom. Now that you have your s\d duo, you now need a 3rd to create some chemistry and give strider what he needs and theres no character in the game that can do that for s\d. Strider is forced to pick a character who will aid what he needs, meter\stamina, in order for him to be effective. Striders weakest strength is his team chemistry. Cable can pick drones and other an AA or have cable as the AA. Even though strider may be the better point character, cable can fight just as well AND cable has the team chemistry to back him up incase he gets dropped. If strider drops in 5 seconds, its usually “aww he didn’t get a chance to go nutty” or " get that bum out of here." Usually if strider drops, its game because the lack of team chemistry forced him to pick xxx\doom. Thats not going to win much against top players. Now if cable drops, especially on the right teams, theres still a little team function left to salvage the round like on scrub\RO.
all tough strider may be the better fighter stacked up against cable, the team function that cable provides make his team better.
lol you went from explaining Ironman’s stats vs Cyke’s stats to showing Strider’s stats.:looney: 
:looney:
hopefully i get to play you one day at a jax-ville tourny, final round, or maybe Evo if im lucky, im not really sure just how good strider is.
I was trying to get across how important team function is rather than point character dynamics. Strider is a prime example of how a team can be great but bad because of horrible team function, his gameplay has to manipulated to make his weaknesses less obvious or harder to exploit.
I can sit here and say well strider can destroy your assist off 1 bar, do 80% off one orb hit on point, 50\50 trap sequences>back into trap>back into 50\50, unblockable super flash techniques, xups that magnus would call broken, guranteed trap reps, guard break option tree, and if s\d is played right it should be able to fight any squad so why isn’t strider 5th?
he’s got horrible team chemistry. Easy answer. Some characters are a bit more grey than others though, cyke\im for instance.
in this case, both cyke\IM both have good assists and both fight well, especially IM, except that cyke AA is fucking beastly. More than IM AA ever will. Ontop of cyke having that assist type that provides great team function, he’s got great priority and a good super thats dhc friendly. Not to mention that cyke will cover his own exit if you use him right and if your opponent is willing to make an extra move to catch cyke, you usually you can punish back for free. IM hangs out too long and you have to cover him but when his AA is out it does beefy life and can annoy shit.
IM may have 1 hit kill and a frame kill dhc but its always going to boil down to team function in the end and cyclops is better @ that.
solid > 1 hit kill basicly
lol, everyone is going to have to agree to disagree and drop it until somone comes up with a convincing argument.
i’m convinced that 2 touches = death is solid, even better if that char can start a combo then reset into near 95%…
cyclops is a really well rounded character, i’m lookin to hurt people with versatility, everyone is going to have their own method.
it’s a team based game anyways, so alot of this shit dun matter.
Well, i don’t think you are wrong, it’s just.
That frame kill dhc gives allot of plusses in to team function, imo. For example, escaping/punshings HSF’s. DHC’s means so much to everyteam, it’s has allot of value. You need a good dhc. I consider IM’s the 2nd best DHC only because Storm’s is unpunishable… it’s amaising that you can connect a j.hkxxMTxxDHC-IM and send allot of damage to the opponent. I consider that a good team function. IM’s assist is a good and reliable assist as well, it’s just use differently. I’ll admit, cykes is better because it’s well rounded, but IM’s is still good. A good assist for allot of teams because it fuckin hurts.
i think the reason people put IM down is because they dont got no TRICKS with the guy. and i think cykes limbs are almost impossible to beat out sometimes cause theyre priority and angles are rediculous
I say we all agree to not care and form our own tier lists, because everyone knows that tier lists make absolutely no difference at all in the game whatsoever. If you know the game, then you know who the difference makers are. You don’t carry a little sheet of paper with a “tier list” on it, to remind you who you need to pick. Cable, Storm, Magneto and Sent are the best in the game. There’s no arguing that. None. After that, there’s a pretty good collection of characters that are dangerous for their own reasons, and are definitely pickable. So, let’s all just disagree and give man (or woman, if you happen to be the rare breed) - love to the character we think is the best. For me, it would go
Strider > Cyke > Dhalsim > Doom > IM > Spiral
But that’s just me, and to be honest, I consider all six of them to essentially be equals anyway.
discussing tiers is always great for debating purposes. nothing else ever really comes out of it.
im curious…does he not get beamed for everything?
s.rh gets push blocked = beam
doesn’t both supers get beamed?
how can i do damage with cyke against cable?
Prey that cable gets ground hyper…
EDit: cyke gets owned by tiger-knee viper beams
Uh s.rh gets beamed? Are you doing 2 roundhouses? If you just do 1 I don’t see how it’s feasible unless he pushblocks like a lk, mk before it, in that case, don’t do the rh and you’re fine?
If you land a super on cable on the ground, you’re going to DHC 9 times out of 10, he can’t beam that? If it’s an air juggle if you aim it properly it’ll take him way higher than you and he can’t shoot you there either.
If you land a hit on cable, you just do lk, mk, 1 hit cyclone kick xx MOB and it’s a knockdown, he can’t punish that? You shouldn’t even have to do that anyway rarely at all, if you land a super on him, you do sob then dhc and he’s pretty much done. But lk, mk xx cyclone kick is his maximum range combo so if you manage to get a hit you can always go into this bnb instead if the dhc isn’t there.
He can’t punish a blocked anti air launcher. What exactly are you doing? You just doing random supers that let him ahvb after you’ve already done yours or something? If you’re using your supers stupidly then you deserve to be shot just like a storm who typhoon xx hails while cable is still free.
I mean saying cyke gets zoned out is one thing, but to say he loses because cable can punish his supers is just baseless.
A bigger question would be why is Cable blocking normals at all? Cyke doesn’t really have any reliable way of getting close to Cable, and it’s not like he can just play keep away and chip. If the match is Cyke trying to hold a lead vs. Cable, sure Cyke can do that. Anyone can. Hold back. However, if you’re trying to take a lead FROM Cable with Cyke, which is the far more likely option, there’s little that Cyke can do to cover ground without just getting caught up in the waves of clutter that Cable can toss out.
i mean the ways that both, cable has to hit cyclops and cyclops has to hit cable are so not sneaky. i juss feel cable has more leadway with his gun than cyclops with his kicks. the main way i see a cable get beasted by a cyclops is the cable tries to do the little crossover trick whenn they comin down from a sj and his sj.d+rh aces cable. other than that i juss can’t see cable getting hit by cyke…unless by random uppercut, that is kinda fast. u know? i mean that might be the reason i dont play with both of those characters a lot. i juss think cyke+assist and cable+assist is favored in cable’s way too heavily.
i dont play either of these chara’s a lot so im not a having a problem specifically…i was juss recollecting to what i normally see…i just dont normally see cyke win out, most of the time he gets friggin shot or dhc’s out against cable.
u win, i dont like cyke or cable =_=
That is definitely arguable. If I see cable perpetually keeping a cyke at least a couple of character distances away from him then ok, I will agree cyke loses to cable badly. Doesn’t really happen to me and I just don’t see how it’s possible. You have to be extremely bad at marvel in general for that to happen and would probably lose with mag/storm vs cable too in that case. Double jump is not that great for getting close to cable but it’s still better than nothing.
I already posted a couple of things you can do earlier in the thread, but I don’t think anyone will ever be convinced until they see some match footage or something. So I’ll just leave the theory fighter alone.
I’ve beaten Cable with Cyke before too, I’m aware it’s possible. Hell, I’ve violated Cable with Doom before (gogo 95% combo DHC combo!) But we’re playing theory fighter here, so I’m forced by court order to act like a total know-it-all prick. I’m not sure why. Anyway, I’ll just say that putting Cyke against Cable is not a good situation, and should be avoided if at all possible.
My boy Fred plays IM/Sent/CapCom and its alot better than most would think.
Air resets with the commando assist are nasty with Sent, but they are instant death with Iron Man. And it gets hard to watch for the block if he uses the assist correctly.
Not to mention the the DHC that sent gets with IM.
I believe that Iron Man is gonna be just as good as the person playing him, and believe the tier listings make iron man better, because knowing what beats him out coming from the top 4, you can adjust your gameplan to revolve around that.
Looking at frame data, and watching a good iron man on point vs. a good magneto on point, you cant say iron man doesnt have options. It just matters if the decisions you are making are the right ones. In real time, thats hard, but it gets easier with trial and error.
As far as pacesetting and match control, you cant be much more in control than
infinate > guard break > infinate > guard break > infinate > death