Do YOU do any Martial Arts?

[Wasted]

You’ve already pointed out that kunfu isn’t used in Sanda, but now you’re trying to save face by back-peddling like a clown. Of course it isn’t used because it’s not effective. You still can’t name any Kungfu styles or techniques used in Sanda without lying, which is why YOU SAID,“Sanda does not use Kung Fu. You can train Sanda without learning Kung Fu”’.

You’re still don’t get it. You can go to a Sanda school, and learn it, without ever having set foot in a Kung Fu school.

Or, as is more common outside China, you can go to a Kung Fu school, and practice Sanda as part of your regular sparring. I fall into the latter, as organised Sanda simply isn’t a thing in Australia. So yes, I train for Sanda rules.

You also can’t provide video evidence of these kungfu techniques being used in Sanda which would have ended the discussion immediately. “Trying” to translate the words kick or punch into the Chinese language does not make kicking and punching the property of Chinese Kungfu, especially when the technique of the punches and kicks being used in Sanda are from Muay Thai and boxing.

LOOOLLLLLLL. Sanda explicitly does NOT kick Thai style, at least for the roundhouse, because because Thai roundhouses are easier to grab. Remember that unlike MT, all throws are legal, hence in Sanda the kicks are generally snappier to minimise the chance of them being grabbed.

Pure Sanda uses boxing for hands, but those who train traditional stuff end up using longer punches and deeper stances. You can often tell the difference between a pure Sanda fighter and someone who is coming in from KF.

Re traditional stuff being applied for Sanda, I’ll just let some of my elders explain.

[details=Spoiler]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2BXz7NLmZw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KUu-h-bGPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhxBssz5P7c - You’ll hear several of the names I used before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UjM8041t9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R03XgAYXq94

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlr41UdpqQ8 - one of my senior instructors from Cali, who competes in amateur Muay Thai. Some footage of stuff that’s not KF/Sanda/MT, but whatever. Still trying to get the MT footage, but hey, ask him yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVkMcj2bDOg - Instructor from the school of the first two videos. Sao choys all over the place here.[/details]

But Wasted, this looks just like boxing and Muay Thai!!!

No. Fucking. Shit. When you go back to the basics, everything looks similar to everything else.

The punching bags, speedballs and Mitts used in Sanda were never present in Chinese Kungfu. Sanda incorporated these things from western boxing and Muay Thai. Which is why they wear boxing gloves, headgear and even MUAY THAI shorts in Sanda competitions, lol, not kungfu apparel.

So…you’re saying I don’t use mitts, speedballs or heavy bags? BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

Sanda doesn’t wear Thai shorts specifically, at least, it doesn’t call for them in their regulations. People just buy Thai shorts out of convenience. By your logic, all MMA fighters or kickboxers wear Muay Thai shorts, which would also be wrong.

If you keep responding to me on this dead argument I’m going to continue asking to provide conclusive proof explaining the kungfu techniques that you claim are used in Sanda. I doubt you even do Sanda. Provide us links that explain and show us Kungfu techniques used in Sanda. Do not translate boxing, kickboxing or Muay Thai attacks into Madarin/Cantonese and claim that we’re not aware of these ancient chinese kungfu techniques. Literally claiming that a power punch, jab or even a knees are Kungfu specific moves is dumb when they’re far more commonly used and to a much more devastating effect in boxing and Muay Thai.

LOL STFU. You asked for kung fu techniques, and I gave them to you. I never claimed anything was specific to Kung Fu. I only ever claimed the Chinese have been doing exactly the same shit as everyone else.

You’re pissed because you were expecting some high flying movie bullshit, but the reality is that KF looks just like a combat sport in practice.

Kungfu pre-dating boxing means absolutely nothing because its still far less effective as a martial than boxing. Striking and even blocking in Kungfu is nowhere near as effective as it is in boxing which is why we see boxing techniques and training methods used in Sanda and NOT kungfu techniques. Put a kungfu fighter up against a competent boxer and that Kungfu specialist will be sleeping within a minute.

Only if said Kung Fu fighter doesn’t train to fight.

[Wasted]

Granted, I don’t have experience with kung fu, but I think chinese martial arts have a similar problem as karate (and karate was influenced by kung fu, so…).

Originally neither kung fu styles nor karate were developed for competition, but either for self defense or to be used in war. Once you try to fit them into a competition, you are adding gloves - and once you bring the gloves you throw out of the window a lot of techniques: all the open palm strikes from karate (shuto, haito, teisho, etc) are gone, and I believe kung fu has even more open palm techniques. Same for all the parring/blocking techniques - once you have the gloves, it’s easier to use traditional boxing methods (shelling, etc) so all the uke waza blocks are gone, too. A lot of the moves from karate or kung fu does not fit in a gloved enviroment.

That’s going to depend on the style. In Choy Li Fut for example, we don’t care that much about the attacking tool, but the angle. If I have gloves, I can’t open hand you, I can’t do the funky animal stuff, but that doesn’t matter, because I can still attack from the same angles, similar to a boxer.

Shaolin was originally designed as a method of exercise, based on Yoga postures, and Kalaripayattu from India. Any martial application was secondary. As time went on, people started their own schools and stuff, not necessarily for self-defense. Then you had the tradition of the lei tai fights, which were no rules competitions on raised platforms (which is where Sanda today gets the idea from). And of course you had the people who just learned to fight on the battlefield or whatever and taught martial arts for a living in peacetime. Weapons were much more important back then, and outside lei tai events, organised sport fighting wasn’t a thing (well, shuai jiao and wrestling maybe), which is something the Thais definitely have the advantage of.

You’re exactly right about blocking. We all know that most blocks don’t really have a place once two fighters are squared up. They’re really intended more as a last resort or response to a surprise. Way too much emphasis is put on blocking in traditional training, IMO.

Another thing I observed is that many moves are similar, so it’s hard to say a particular technique is originally from karate, boxing kung fu, etc. Just an example, I wante to learn how punches are done in boxing, so I watched a couple of tutorial about doing a right cross. To my big surprise, I discovered that the right cross is basically karate’s gyaku tsuki - they are virtually the same move, same principles applied, the only major difference being how you keep the opposite hand. But the punch in itself is the same. So, whenever you see a right cross thrown in mma, do you see a boxing or a karate technique ? question is pretty silly, same technique, just using it’s western (right cross) or eastern (gyaku tsuki) name.

It will be less about the technique, and more the way the body behaves. Hence why you can easily spot a karateka with their super snappy rear punches, or a boxer by their tight trunk movement and footwork.

[Sexperienced]

Please fucking stop with your stupidity, do you even notice that you deny everything I say then admit that I was right in the exact same post, haha. No one in that video is using kungfu techniques.

Secondly these bogus kungfu terms that you named in the “Chinese” language were grabbed right out of your ass. You still need to prove to us that they’re actually Kungfu techniques used in Sanda. Don’t even think I’m going to let you off the hook with that.

You’re so stupid that you’ll literally quote something I said and claim I said something I didn’t say within that quote because you can’t fault my arguments, LOL. You really expect me to take you seriously. Kungfu doesn’t work… Move on.

[Sexperienced]

Granted, I don’t have experience with kung fu, but I think chinese martial arts have a similar problem as karate (and karate was influenced by kung fu, so…).

Originally neither kung fu styles nor karate were developed for competition, but either for self defense or to be used in war. Once you try to fit them into a competition, you are adding gloves - and once you bring the gloves you throw out of the window a lot of techniques: all the open palm strikes from karate (shuto, haito, teisho, etc) are gone, and I believe kung fu has even more open palm techniques. Same for all the parring/blocking techniques - once you have the gloves, it’s easier to use traditional boxing methods (shelling, etc) so all the uke waza blocks are gone, too. A lot of the moves from karate or kung fu does not fit in a gloved enviroment.

Open palm strikes are not as effective as punching and they never will be. Secondly open palm strike are allowed in MMA. Also boxers parry all the time, gloves do not hinder parrying. The reason I say your talking complete nonsense is because of Vale Tudo… which has damn near no rules and they don’t wear gloves. Believe me Kungfu fighters would fare much worse in Vale Tudo tournaments than in the UFC.
I gurantee that if you put a boxer with gloves up against a Kungfu specialist without gloves, the Kungfu fighter wont be able to block or parry anything. The boxer will end the fight fairly quickly. Boxing is brutal and straight to the point,

Another thing I observed is that many moves are similar, so it’s hard to say a particular technique is originally from karate, boxing kung fu, etc. Just an example, I wante to learn how punches are done in boxing, so I watched a couple of tutorial about doing a right cross. To my big surprise, I discovered that the right cross is basically karate’s gyaku tsuki - they are virtually the same move, same principles applied, the only major difference being how you keep the opposite hand. But the punch in itself is the same. So, whenever you see a right cross thrown in mma, do you see a boxing or a karate technique ? question is pretty silly, same technique, just using it’s western (right cross) or eastern (gyaku tsuki) name.

In black belt magazine in the late 80’s to the early 90’s they measured the punching power of various martial arts and combat sports. Unsurprsingly boxers came up on top. The boxers hit much harder than martial arts experts, even when they weighed far less. Some martial arts deliver the same moves more efficiently than others. Boxer also know how to evade and block punches far better than other martial arts because of consistent sparring against different sized opponents.

[Wasted]

Please fucking stop with your stupidity, do you even notice that you deny everything I say then admit that I was right in the exact same post, haha. No one in that video is using kungfu techniques.

Secondly these bogus kungfu terms that you named in the “Chinese” language were grabbed right out of your ass. You still need to prove to us that they’re actually Kungfu techniques used in Sanda. Don’t even think I’m going to let you off the hook with that.

>Posts some of the highest ranking and experienced instructors in Choy Li Fut
>Posts footage of the founder’s school using Cantonese terms
>THEY’RE NOT USING KUNG FU

You’re so stupid that you’ll literally quote something I said and claim I said something I didn’t say within that quote because you can’t fault my arguments, LOL. You really expect me to take you seriously. Kungfu doesn’t work… Move on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Wasted]

Granted, I don’t have experience with kung fu, but I think chinese martial arts have a similar problem as karate (and karate was influenced by kung fu, so…).

Originally neither kung fu styles nor karate were developed for competition, but either for self defense or to be used in war. Once you try to fit them into a competition, you are adding gloves - and once you bring the gloves you throw out of the window a lot of techniques: all the open palm strikes from karate (shuto, haito, teisho, etc) are gone, and I believe kung fu has even more open palm techniques. Same for all the parring/blocking techniques - once you have the gloves, it’s easier to use traditional boxing methods (shelling, etc) so all the uke waza blocks are gone, too. A lot of the moves from karate or kung fu does not fit in a gloved enviroment.

Open palm strikes are not as effective as punching and they never will be. Secondly open palm strike are allowed in MMA. Also boxers parry all the time, gloves do not hinder parrying. The reason I say your talking complete nonsense is because of Vale Tudo… which has damn near no rules and they don’t wear gloves. Believe me Kungfu fighters would fare much worse in Vale Tudo tournaments than in the UFC.
I gurantee that if you put a boxer with gloves up against a Kungfu specialist without gloves, the Kungfu fighter wont be able to block or parry anything. The boxer will end the fight fairly quickly. Boxing is brutal and straight to the point,

Gloves definitely don’t hinder parrying, I agree. If anything they make it easier as it gives you a bigger surface to use. It’s also easier to grab legs with gloves on thanks to their hooked shape.

And yet…open hands, or closed fists using the palm, were preferred in old-time irish boxing as well as pankration. Open hands are allowed in MMA, but because the wrist is bound, you have little incentive to use them. The protection from the gloves gives people incentive to use their knuckles.

There’s a reason that even the Greeks and Romans bound their fists - because their hands needed the protection.

Take away gloves and you’ll see much more open hand. Rogan and Rutten have talked about this before.

Also just for fun, untrained open hands are better than untrained fists. For complete scrubs, it’s better to use open hands. You have a larger striking surface and your whole arm can be relaxed, increasing the whip put into the strike.

Another thing I observed is that many moves are similar, so it’s hard to say a particular technique is originally from karate, boxing kung fu, etc. Just an example, I wante to learn how punches are done in boxing, so I watched a couple of tutorial about doing a right cross. To my big surprise, I discovered that the right cross is basically karate’s gyaku tsuki - they are virtually the same move, same principles applied, the only major difference being how you keep the opposite hand. But the punch in itself is the same. So, whenever you see a right cross thrown in mma, do you see a boxing or a karate technique ? question is pretty silly, same technique, just using it’s western (right cross) or eastern (gyaku tsuki) name.

In black belt magazine in the late 80’s to the early 90’s they measured the punching power of various martial arts and combat sports. Unsurprsingly boxers came up on top. The boxers hit much harder than martial arts experts, even when they weighed far less. Some martial arts deliver the same moves more efficiently than others. Boxer also know how to evade and block punches far better than other martial arts because of consistent sparring against different sized opponents.

Who’d have thought that a punching specialist would have better punches than a non-specialist…

[dab00g]

Granted, I don’t have experience with kung fu, but I think chinese martial arts have a similar problem as karate (and karate was influenced by kung fu, so…).

Originally neither kung fu styles nor karate were developed for competition, but either for self defense or to be used in war. Once you try to fit them into a competition, you are adding gloves - and once you bring the gloves you throw out of the window a lot of techniques: all the open palm strikes from karate (shuto, haito, teisho, etc) are gone, and I believe kung fu has even more open palm techniques. Same for all the parring/blocking techniques - once you have the gloves, it’s easier to use traditional boxing methods (shelling, etc) so all the uke waza blocks are gone, too. A lot of the moves from karate or kung fu does not fit in a gloved enviroment.

Open palm strikes are not as effective as punching and they never will be. Secondly open palm strike are allowed in MMA. Also boxers parry all the time, gloves do not hinder parrying. The reason I say your talking complete nonsense is because of Vale Tudo… which has damn near no rules and they don’t wear gloves. Believe me Kungfu fighters would fare much worse in Vale Tudo tournaments than in the UFC.
I gurantee that if you put a boxer with gloves up against a Kungfu specialist without gloves, the Kungfu fighter wont be able to block or parry anything. The boxer will end the fight fairly quickly. Boxing is brutal and straight to the point,

Another thing I observed is that many moves are similar, so it’s hard to say a particular technique is originally from karate, boxing kung fu, etc. Just an example, I wante to learn how punches are done in boxing, so I watched a couple of tutorial about doing a right cross. To my big surprise, I discovered that the right cross is basically karate’s gyaku tsuki - they are virtually the same move, same principles applied, the only major difference being how you keep the opposite hand. But the punch in itself is the same. So, whenever you see a right cross thrown in mma, do you see a boxing or a karate technique ? question is pretty silly, same technique, just using it’s western (right cross) or eastern (gyaku tsuki) name.

In black belt magazine in the late 80’s to the early 90’s they measured the punching power of various martial arts and combat sports. Unsurprsingly boxers came up on top. The boxers hit much harder than martial arts experts, even when they weighed far less. Some martial arts deliver the same moves more efficiently than others. Boxer also know how to evade and block punches far better than other martial arts because of consistent sparring against different sized opponents.

Open palm strikes are as effective as punches pancrase showed that.

With open palm strikes in close quarters you can deliver ko blows. You are also less likely to break your hand because the heel of the palm is more attune to absorb a blow than the fist. This is just for my taste. I would like to see more palm strikes in mma, but rules are shakey when it comes to striking.

Also don’t take that guy seriously he did a couple no contact karate classes and now thinks he’s an expert in breaking down martial arts. He is the same guy who said boxing was useless and his soft ass karate was superior.

A punch is a punch, but a boxer is a more efficient puncher than a karateka. Look no further than floyd/mcgregor

Rashad Evans is a wrestler who cross trains. Lyoto Machida is a karate practitioner who cross trains. Evans is gun shy and backs up lyoto takes advantage.

Again improving as a martial artist goes with cross training

I love doing grappling because you mix different techniques to fit your physicality, size, style

[Sexperienced]

It’s possible to knock someone out with palm strikes but I haven’t seen it being used effectively consistently enough, especially between high level strikers. but I could imagine switching to open plam strikes if I broke my wrist in a fight.
I’ve watched Bas Rutten use it effectively, he’s the first name that comes to mind but he wasn’t even facing mid level strikers back in his day when he fought in pride. He was the best strikers amongst wrestlers. I’ve noticed that over the years the use of open palm strikes has declined in MMA and I don’t think the rules are shaky enough to be the reason for this.

I’ve always said that full contact boxing and kickboxing sparring with headgear should be compulsory for all martial artists but after having countless arguments with self professed kungfu and Karate experts who claim that boxing and MMA are not effective therefore not worth learning I’ve realised that these people have no interest in cross-train because it exposes aspects of their art that just do not work as a form of self defense.

Yes, I’m finally aware that I’m being trolled. It doesn’t surprise me that people here don’t take him seriously.

[Wasted]

It’s possible to knock someone with palm strikes but I haven’t seen it being used effectively consistently enough, especially between high level strikers. but I could imagine switching to open plam strikes if I broke my wrist in a fight.
I’ve watched Bas Rutten use it effectively, he’s the first name that comes to mind but he wasn’t even facing mid level strikers back in his day when he fought in pride. He was the best strikers amongst wrestlers. I’ve noticed that over the years the use of open palm strikes has declined in MMA and I don’t think the rules are shaky enough to be the reason for this.

I agree its not so much the rules. It’s the equipment. If your hands are taped and gloved, then you can’t open hand as effectively. On the other hand, it makes your knuckles so much solid and protected.

When you have gloves, there is basically no incentive to use open hands.

[dab00g]

Taped fist do restrict movement

But honestly in the clinch i would unloaf palm strikes as my short strikes

[Sexperienced]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdxEd6hjrMj

I can’t tell if this video shows the front entrance of the club from the inside or the outside.
Even with videos like this some people still have a hard time separating martial arts that work to one’s that do not.

[Wasted]

All I saw was brawling, basic restraints and the green dude getting rocked with a throat punch.

That and a taser.

Bouncers do good work.

[Jion_Wansu]

Andalusia karate instructor selected for Hall of Fame

[Gimpy]

[maxx]

Does anyone do brazilian jiu jitsu here?