Dizzy Thread and Values

Dizzy in ST is random. Whenever you get hit by an attack or throw, you can take ‘stun’ damage which is an integer randomly chosen within a specific range. When this ‘stun’ damage hits a threshold of 30, you dizzy.

A dizzy timer keeps track of how long until your stun wears off. If the dizzy timer is greater than 0 when you get hit by a move, the dizzy timer gets added to and your stun also gets added to. The value of the stun and the amount of timer added depends on the move. The dizzy timer counts down immediately starting after the frame you get hit and will count down during knockdown, blockstun, hitstun, etc. Blockstun or hitstun does not slow down the timer. The only time dizzy will not count down is during super freeze. The timer probably counts down at 75/second (the simulation speed of ST) as opposed to the display and input rate (60 frames/second).

Attacks add to the dizzy timer as soon as you hit someone.

Throws do not instantly stun or add to the dizzy timer. Teching does not seem to reduce the stun or dizzy timer. Non-teched throws also do not add enough time to extend the dizzy they cause with a meaty attack. Teched throws have enough dizzy timer where you can generally extend the dizzy for ~1/3 to 1/2 a second when the opponent lands. If you tech a throw that would dizzy you, you will dizzy and take the full damage of the throw.

Grabs (multi-hit “hold” throws you cannot tech) do not seem to do any dizzy. If you need an excuse to use non-grab throws on a grab character, use it to dizzy.

Sweeps (usually cr.hk) add enough dizzy time so that if you connect with an attack ~1/3 to 1/2 a second when the opponent gets up, you can extend the dizzy. If a special move is listed as 100 for its timer, and it knocks down by itself without previous dizzy, often there is not enough time for a meaty attack to extend its dizzy.

As a general rule, heavier attacks do more stun and add more dizzy time. However, there are a huge amount of exceptions where a hard attack bizarrely has very low dizzy. Knowing these exceptions for your character is important to maximizing your chances to dizzy.

The stun from a move does not seem to be a uniform distribution. It is harder to get the lower or higher end of the stun a move can do than the middle. Each randomly chosen stun value seems completely independent of the opponent’s health (no scaling when low on health), whether or not the attack was in a combo, and previously rolled stun values.

Since I was really bored w/ ggpo being down, I decided to compile a list of dizzy. Note that these values are not perfectly aligned with the game and are just what I have observed through repeatedly hitting a dummy. Knowing exactly how the game calculates dizzy requires someone to have the source or to have a good working knowledge of raw assembly code.

I tested using the world version of ST (the one ggpo used) using ryu as a dummy.

All normal moves and normal throws in the game seem to follow this general template:


********************
template
********************
move            stun    time    notes
ground light    0-5     40
ground med      5-11    60
ground hard     10-16   80
cr.hk           5-11    130     sweep

dj light        2-7     40
dj med          5-11    50
dj hard         11-17   60

nj light        1-7     40
nj med          5-11    50
nj hard         11-17   60

normal throws   7-13    100

However, there are many exceptions. For brevity and clarity, I am only listing those normals that deviate from the above template. I’ve also tried to list all multi-hit moves, special moves, supers, and command normals. If I’ve missed one, tell me! For certain multi-hit supers, I just tested a few times and listed the range of values that were produced from it hitting multiple times. For certain moves, I listed “low” in the dizzy timer since the timer was negligible and it wasn’t worth figuring out exact times per hit.


********************
Ryu
********************
move            stun            time    notes
cl.hp           3-9             40      first part
cl.hp           10-16           80      second part
cl.hk           10-14           60      first part
cl.hk           2-5             70      second part
cr.hp           3-9             40

dj mp           4-8             40      second part has very low stun/time
dj hp/hk        3-9             40

6+mp            2-6x2           70x2    overhead
6+hp            2-5,1-6         70x2    rush punch

specials
srk             10-15           100
tatsu           4-9             90
air tatsu       4-9             90
blue fb         8-13            110
red fb          5-11            100

super           5-10            low

********************
E.Honda
********************
move            stun            time    notes
fa.mk           5-10x2          60x2
cr.hp           1-6x2           70+60
fa./cl.hk       5-8,11-15       40+80
6+cl.mk         5-10x2          60x2
4/6+hk          6-10            130     sweep

dj.hp/hk        3-9             40
dj.2+mk         5-11            50      splash

specials
slaps           5-10xn          100
torpedo         9-15            100
buttslam        10-15           100
oicho           8-12x2          100x2

super           0-3x4           low

********************
Blanka
********************
move            stun            time    notes
cl.mk           5-11x2          60x2
3+hp            5-10            130     slide
cl.4/6+hp       5-10x2          60x2    headbutt

dj.hp           3-9             40
nj.hp           10-15           80

specials
horiz ball      9-15            100
up-ball         10-15           100
kick ball       4-6             30
elect           10-15           100

super           2-4             low

********************
Guile
********************
move            stun    time    notes
fa.hp           1-7     70
fa.hk           1-7     70
cl.hk           1-7     70
cr.hk           6-11    130     both hits

4/6+lk          6-10    60      bazooka knee
4/6+mk          6-11    60      sobat kick
4/6+hp          11-16   80      backfist
cl.4/6+hk       1-7     70      upside down kick

dj.hp           3-9     40

specials
boom            5-11    100
flash kick      8-13    100

super           6-11    low

********************
O./N.T.Hawk
********************
move            stun            time    notes
cl.hp           1-7             70
cr.hp           10-16,2-7       80+90   2 hits
cr.hk           5-11            130     both hits
4/6+lp          0-5             40

dj.2+mp         5-11            50      elbow
dj.2+hp         11-17           60      splash

specials
dive            10-14           100
lp/mp dp        10-14           100
hp dp           3-7,10-14       90+100  2-hits
spd             9-12            100

super           8-10            100

********************
Fei Long
********************
move            stun            time    notes
cl.hp           3-9             40
cl.hk           4-7,10-16       90+80
4/6+mk          3-7             40      overhead
4/6+hk          4-7,10-15       90+80   2-hit stepkick

dj hp/hk        3-9             40
nj hp/hk        3-9             40

specials
lk flame kick   11-15           100     other flame kicks do less dizzy but give more time
chicken wing    low             low
rekkas          1-7x3           30x3

super           5-10            low

********************
Boxer
********************
move                    stun    time    notes
dj hp/hk                3-9     40
nj hp/hk                3-8     40

specials
rush p straight         7-13    90
rush p lower            11-15   100
rush k upper            7-13    90
rush k lower            10-15   100
headbutt                10-14   100
turn around punch       9-15    100     higher levels (including final don't seem to increase)

super                   4-9     low     p/k super seem similar

********************
O./N.Sagat
********************
move            stun            time    notes
cl.lk           0-5x2           40x2    2-hits
cl.mk           5-11x2          60x2    2-hits
fa.hk           1-7             70

specials
p fireball      10-15           100
k fireball      10-15           100
tiger knee      2-7,3-8         90x2    2-hits
tiger lp/mp dp  4-8             40      o.sagat hp dp uses this
tiger hp dp     2-9             low     5-hits

super           4-13            low

********************
N.Ken
********************
move            stun    time    notes
cl.hp           3-9     40
cr.hp           3-9     40
dj.hp           3-9     40
dj.hk           3-9     40

specials
fireball        5-10            100
lp dp           10-14           100
mp dp           10-14,3-7       100+90
hp dp           2-6,11-15,1-6   30+100+30
lk tatsu        4-8x2           90x2            2-hits
mk tatsu        3-8xn           90xn
hk tatsu        4-8xn           90xn
air tatsu       3-8xn           90xn
qcf k           0-3,8-12        20+90           hold k seems similar
632+k           3-7,7-13        90x2            hold k seems similar
hcf k           0-4             20              hold k similar to qcf k hold

super           3-11            low

********************
O.Ken
********************
same as n.ken except:
move          stun              time    notes
cl.hk         12-16,2-5         80+70   2-hits

********************
Chun Li
********************
move            stun            time    notes
3+mk            0-2             40
3+hk            10-16           80      neckbreaker

nj/dj.2+mk      2-7             60      stomp

specials
fireball        8-12            90
spinning bird   7-12x2          90x2
upkicks         0-4xn           20xn

super           5-13            low

********************
Zangief
********************
move            stun            time    notes
cl.hk           11-16,2-6       80+70   2-hits
6+mp/hp         2-7             70      hop

dj.2+lk         4-7             40      light knees
dj.2+mk         1-5             40      med knees; yes med knees seems to do less than light knees
dj.2+hp         12-17           60      splash

nj.mp           2-5             40
nj.8+hp         21-27           100     headbutt

specials
green hand      0-3             20
p/k lariat      9-14            100
p spd           7-12            100
close k 360     9-13            100
far k 360       7-13            100

super           8-11            100

********************
Dhalsim
********************
move            stun            time    notes
1+hp            5-10            60
4+hp            11-15,11-16     80x2    2-hits headbutt; can rarely dizzy ryu by itself
3+hk            5-11            130     slide
dj.mp           6-11            60

p drill         11-16           80
k drill         11-16           80

specials
yoga fire       10-14           100
yoga p flame    9-14            100
yoga k flame    10-13           100

super           4-11            low

********************
Cammy
********************
move            stun    time    notes
cl.hk           1-7     70
dj.hp/hk        3-9     40
nj.hp/hk        3-9     40

specials
dp              10-14           100
lk/mk drill     10-14           100
hk drill        2-6,10-14       90+100  2-hits
knuckle         1-7,10-14       70+100  2-hits

super           4-9             low

********************
Deejay
********************
move            stun            time    notes
fa.mk           5-11,2-8        60x2    2-hits
cr.mk           5-11            130     sweep
cl.hp           11-16,2-5       60+70   2-hits
cr.hk           5-11            130     sweep

dj.2+lk         2-7             40
dj.mp           11-17           60
dj.hp           5-11            50
nj.mp           5-11            60

specials
fireball        4-9             90
lk dread kick   2-8             90
mk/hk dread     2-8x2           90x2      2 hits
lk upkicks      0-4             20
mk upkicks      0-4x2           20x2      2 hits
hk upkicks      0-4x3           20x3      3 hits
machine gun     0-5xn,9-15      30xn+100  4 hits; guessing

super           4-8             low

********************
Claw
********************
move            stun    time    notes
dj hp/hk        3-9     40

special
lk/mk flipkick  0-3             20
hk flipkick     0-3x2           20x2    2-hits
p roll          0-5xn,10-14     30xn+100
p walldive      1-6             30
k walldive      10-14           100     claw attack
dive throw      8-12            100

super           8-12            100     only last hit dizzies

********************
Dictator
********************
move            stun            time    notes
dj.mpx2         0-3,5-11        20+50   2 hits

special
crusher         10-14           100     
scissor kicks   10-14,1-7       100+50
devil's reverse 10-14           100
stomp           9-15            100
stomp followup  9-15            100     ~100 dizzy left after stomp & followup

super           4-10            low

Big thanks to Cauldrath for providing and posting his initial findings regarding dizzy! Many of the statements in this post summarize or restate what Cauldrath has found.

Certain characters obviously take more dizzy damage.
Both Dhalsim and Claw can take as much as 0-7 dizzy damage from ground light attacks while the rest of the cast only takes 0-5. Other moves seem to also be able to do as much as ~2 greater dizzy damage to these two than to the rest of the cast.

Everyone else practically seems to take the same dizzy damage. When zangief gets hit by zangief’s neutral jump headbutt, he seems to only be able to take 21-26 stun while ryu can take 21-27 stun. However, for other moves such as jumping hard attacks zangief can get hit by up to 17 stun just like ryu. To test my theory that practically zangief dizzies as easily as ryu, I repeatedly did blanka’s crossup j.lk / cl.mp, 6+cl.mp dizzy combo to them both. Zangief had a ratio of 27 dizzies to 50 non-dizzies while ryu had a ratio of 20 dizzies to 50 non-dizzies.

Therefore, practically speaking, I think characters fall into two categories of dizzy-bility. There’s claw and dhalsim who are easily dizzied and then there is everyone else.

very nice, professor CBO.

it would be fun to compute some of the TOD combos and see how ridiculous the stuns they inflicted.

also would be cool to figure out the best bnb stun combo each character should use (example: ryu deep jumpin should use j mk, cr. mk xx fb instead of j rh, st fierce xx fb)

I have gathered the data for ST.Ryu and ST.Ken. It was just for the World version, too. You can 1 less super meter points from normals if they are blocked. I forgot about Ryu’s command normals, but I know they behave as fierce punches in terms of super meter and hit/blockstun.

actaully this is reinstate what hk master say in bible days already. :tdown:

HK master is reminded of a quote it is better to be a pauper amongst kings then a king amongst paupers… His sage is waste here.

No, you should stay around, man. Anyway, do you mean the old posts from the ST in the house thread?

BTW, an O.Ryu wiki is being filled with content. Help and discussion at the Ryu thread are welcome, of course. :karate: