Disturbing find on Street Fighter controllers

Media Outlet Comic Book Forum
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Well, I’m just saying, yes, it does happen, but it shouldn’t be accepted so easily by people. Regardless of reason. (Except, of course, in situations like this, when it was necisarry)

A “pro” to me is not just someone who gets paid for their work, but someone who fosters and pioneers their own way of working lucratively without taking the shortcuts you mentioned.

Take manga artists for example, 20 pages a WEEK and they never need to take the shortcuts you mentioned. They are shining examples of the kind of professional I am referring to.

Just my opinion.

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What weekly manga do you read? They have a team to do all sorts of things like find reference for shots, tones, inks, cleanups…it’s not one person, not on the weeklys. Almost ALL of them have PHOTOCOPIED backgrounds.
No one said anything about tracing as common practice. I mentioned using art as reference…
I don’t know a penciler in the industry today that doesn’t keep their favorite artist’s work by their desks or in their reference files. I’m sure you do the same thing, Rey.
Why shouldn’t it be accepted? There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just elitest ideals. Everyone wants to think they’re 100% original, and they’re not.
Udon does it too. I see them with the Capcom Design Works and SFE Challenge open at every convention doing sketches, and not just for costume reference.
You need reference on say for example, the way Rose’s eyes look half closed, you open one of the above mentioned and you look for it.
There was a saying at the Kubert School that I heard ALL 3 years from almost EVERY instructor…Kuberts included: Don’t try to reinvent the wheel.

BTW, I’m not attacking you personally or anything, so try not to take too much offense to what I’m saying, but it is the truth.

On a side note, to the guy who said

His name is Travis Charest. I don’t think his career is dead. (yes he ghosted on the early issues too)

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-_- They are exactly the proffesionals that take the shortcuts. It’s not uncommon for mangaka to have shelves of reference books with people in all types of everyday poses, ready for their copying pleasure.

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Apathy- I read Naruto. And, of course manga studios have more than one person producing the work… but so do Western comic artists. Doesn’t make a difference. Still shouldn’t copy. It’s just bad art ethics. Having pre-made background tones, or using reference books for poses, I do not consider copying. Those tools were made specifically for the purpose of being used in that way.

MY comics (for example), on the other hand, were NOT made so that people could copy out of them and publish their own version of my poses, characters, ect. Get it? Pretty simple once you think about it! (And that’s ALL I was saying with my original point)

(PS: Apathy, all those “truths” you explained about artists having reference books, etc, is no news to me, man. You kind of acted like you were laying a giant debate-bomb on me with that one, but like, every artist knows the things you said. No offense to you, either. Just sayin :])

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I dunno, you said before weekly manga artists don’t take shortcuts but it’s painfully obvious that they do…now you’re saying they do and it’s okay… I don’t understand how you don’t consider using pose books copying. It’s still copying art. Photography IS art.
Define “reference books” for me, too. Because my collection of reference books includes art books and comics in addition to anatomy, perspective, and tons and tons of photos.

Your original point was a statement of fact that “real pros” don’t ever look at someone else’s art for reference. That’s NOT the same as “I don’t approve of it and don’t want people using my work.” Your double standard about “it’s okay if someone tells you to” was cute, though. Like you’d be able to tell by looking “oh, that guy must have been told to, so it’s okay”.

PS: My whole point was that it’s common knowledge and everyone does it. When you say things like:

you come off as either being totally clueless or in denial.
After your last statement I can see your only point is that you don’t approve of it. Which is fine, but that’s your opinion, and I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

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“Your original point was a statement of fact that “real pros” don’t ever look at someone else’s art for reference.”

No, my point was not that at all. This whole thread started under the guise of “ripping” (also known as “copying”). The act of tracing someone else’s work line for line and publishing it as your own.

My point is that no professional artist should (key word) copy another artist and pass it off as their own, ever.

Your point is that professionals DO. That’s great. Not news to me, as I myself have been victim to my share of rip-offs. I am saying real pros don’t do it. That is my opinion. An opinion that stems from my time working in the comics industry. My friends who are professionals in the field (and also amazing artists) do not copy. I do not copy. MY favorite comic artists do not copy (again, there is a difference between copying and using reference- it is common stinking knowledge!). It’s not denial or cluelessness, it’s just the ideal artistic world I happen to live in. Where myself and my artistic peers don’t copy like you claim “everyone” does.

That is all I am saying.

PS: Incidentally, it’s not just my opinion. Ask most professional artists, and they will tell you the same thing. It’s just not right to copy another artist’s work and pass it off as your own. That is why this thread was started with the word “disturbing”. Seriously, I can’t believe I’ve had to explain myself 3 times on this matter :]

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Let’s clearify something here. Swipping/ripping/referencing (which I, and many PROFESSIONAL ARTISTS that I know support and do)is NOT the same as “copying someone and trying to pass it off as your own”. That’s stealing/copyright infringment/plagurism. That’s illegeal and left to the Liefelds of the industry.
Great, you know this. You should. Now WHY are you disputing it?

  • I am saying real pros don’t do it. That is my opinion. An opinion that stems from my time working in the comics industry.*
    That is complete and utter bullshit because I have TALKED TO AND KNOW “real” pros that do it. (it being swiping/referencing/ripping) THAT is what I’m talking about. Taking a hand, a foot, the way someone renders buildings/rocks/clouds etc etc…
    Some pros cringe at the mention of it because like someone else said “they hide it well”, but they still DO IT. I never said they shout it from the rafters but they’re still “guilty” of it. I’d bet money that you’ve done it too.
    Sorry, but you ARE clueless if you think you live in an artistic world where people don’t swipe/rip/reference other’s work.

PS: I never said copying someone line for line is okay. I made that VERY CLEAR. Again; swiping/ripping/referencing is what I am, and have been, refering to.
Also: You wanna continue this, let’s do it in PM or AIM or something, I don’t think we need to keep taking up board space.

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Swipping/ripping/referencing (which I, and many PROFESSIONAL ARTISTS that I know support and do)is NOT the same as “copying someone and trying to pass it off as your own”.

Um, yes it is. And if you went to a comic convention and told a random professional that you “support swiping” I garuntee his expression would turn to dismay.

But, not referencing. You are totally mixing terms. Referencing does not belong in the same category as swiping and ripping. I’ve said it a million times, there is a difference between copying (AKA: “ripping”, “swiping”) and referencing (AKA: Inspirational pictures, anatomy books, pre-made tones, etc). The difference is common sense. If you like the way a dude draws a foot and you draw a foot in a similar way, that is referencing (and is A-OK!). If you like the way a dude draws a foot and proceed to draw the entire picture he made line-for-line and publish it as your own, that is copying! (swiping, ripping, etc-- which is BAD!)

There used to be a website called “Swipe of the Week” where such examples of shameless swiping would be examined each week and judged wether or not it was truly a swipe or just “inspired” or an “hommage” (a whole DIFFERENT form of art replication). That’s how notorious swiping (copying, ripping) IS. It’s bad, yo. No arguing it, man.

But, again, and I will bold this just so you can truly see: Swiping, Copying, Ripping, is not the same as referencing or being inspired by another artist. Further, I know that some professional artists do both. BUT, a real pro should not swipe.

But yo, I’m not trying to one-up you or make you look like a dumbass… This is honestly a sensative issue in the art world, and I am just trying to explain it to you so that you’ll understand. Coz seriously, like I said before, if you actually tell another pro that you “support swiping”, you’ll get blacklisted AS a swiper. And that’s no good. I think you just have your terms mixed up.

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  • If you like the way a dude draws a foot and you draw a foot in a similar way, that is referencing (and is A-OK!). *

That is exactly what I was saying.
At the Kubert School it was known as “swiping” (refering to using the way someone draws rocks, or smoke, or a foot or something).
And I have had professionals at conventions TELL ME to do it, not to mention all the instructors at the Kubert School.
Yes, clearly our terms were clashing.

Yeah, I know, I’ve seen the sites and the letter columns…I think it was Peter David that would constantly rip on Liefeld…

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Capcom work ethic !!!