Yeah, I have a really tough time with Cammy and Fei too. However, I’ve been trying to do a couple things more consistently against Fei that has started to help my game there:
When he does a Chicken Wing from far away to get in, make him land on a slide. I think far cr.mp also works here and may be a better option if the CW isn’t landing close to you.
After blocking a rekka string or a CW up close, fight your instinct and don’t throw out a poke right away. Most Fei’s *love *to do a flame kick right after these which will knock you down and reset things. By baiting the flame kick you can counter them on their way down, and more importantly push them back out.
With Cammy, I still don’t feel like I have any real solid game plan at all :sad:
Ugh, “interesting” is hardly the word. That is the most tedious match in the game. For Dhalsim, it’s a battle of papercutting your opponent to death. Imagine getting hit 15x a round by back jab, and getting hit by another 10 standing forwards until you die. Of course, if T-hawk gets in, the round can be over in 6 seconds, so the Sim player can’t make any mistakes. I don’t dislike the match, but if you play like 10 in a row, my head starts to hurt. You can only jab someone to death for so many rounds.
If you’ve got a good T.Hawk, I’d be happy to play you some time. Like sim, not too many people play Hawk. So, I’d be happy to get more practice in this match-up. If you see me online, join my room :wgrin:
man im lovin dhalsim, yoga flame is too good when used properly.
i need improvements on my teleports though, try to get behind people and they just throw my ass. Also my slides teem to come out randomly, i need to master the command for that since I dont really play dhalsim that much.
Now that the game has been out for a while and people have had a chance to play it in-depth, do we want to talk about matchup advantages/disadvantages? To me, it breaks down like this:
7-3
Zangief
6-4
Guile
Akuma
Balrog
5-5
Sagat
Dee Jay
T-Hawk
Ryu
Vega
Ken
Blanka (maybe 4-6)
4-6
Chun Li (maybe 5-5)
Bison (maybe 5-5)
Fei Long
Cammy
Honda (maybe 3-7)
The only one I’m really unsure of is Bison. At first I thought Sim was at a clear disadvantage, but then I started mixing some new moves into my rushdown vs Bison and it appeared to be successful. I have to play some elite level Bisons to see if it works against them. It’s hard to tell though because one mistake, and you lose the round, so it’s hard to gauge since that character is so volatile.
I am pretty convinced Fei is a 4-6 match for Dhalsim. Any Fei that throws, mixes up the CW timing, and can combo will be a nightmare. Even just throwing out Rekkas for no reason, they can catch you, and Fei’s damage is off the charts.
Chun Li and Blanka, I am on the fence about. Zass30’s Blanka is a nightmare if you block a jump short. Chun Li I feel can be a 5-5 matchup, depending on how well they reverse with her upkick move.
As for Ken/Ryu, against good shotos, I feel it’s 6-4 Dhalsim. Against elite level shotos, it feels even. Ken is the tougher match than Ryu because of the knee throw.
With the exception of a few of your points I’d agree – I find Gief much harder than Hawk, and shotos are still super easy (especially Ryu). I do not think Akuma loses this match, either. Too many tools.
My breakdown would be:
Dhalsim / Opponent
Zangief 5/5
Guile 6/4
Akuma 4/6
Balrog 6/4
Sagat 7/3
Dee Jay 7/3
T-Hawk 6/4
Ryu 7/3
Vega 3/7
Ken 7/3
Blanka 4/6
Chun Li 2/8
Bison 4/6
Fei Long 7.5/2.5 (This matchup was a big edge to Dhalsim before – Nothing Fei got helped him at all here. The reduced CWK recovery means pain)
Cammy 4/6
Honda 3/7
I know I’ve harped on Honda, but I think Chun li straight wins this matchup by turtling. Like brutally. It got worse by the lack of a free win when Sim gets in (due to noogie nerf).
Chun, at the top level, feels like by far Sim’s worst matchup. It’s 6/4 Sim vs. rushdown chuns. Chuns who know to turtle against Sim are just farking scary.
i think it’s interesting on both sides, sucks for sim if hawk gets in, but the trouble is doing just that
i think he’s pretty good, but who knows, you’ll prolly beat me hahahaha, but i’ll add you up and we can get some matches in man! my mic is broken though so i’m not trying to be rude if i don’t talk or anything
Standing back jab, duck jab, jump back fierce, from various ranges.
I think back short kick will beat it too but I can’t recall.
Jump in blanka RH, you have very few options. Jump back / neutral J fierce, jump roundhouse, and db.jab are the only things that will beat it clean from some ranges, in my experience.
Jump short, you can trade with back + LK or back + MP. You can’t beat it reliably from most ranges with anything, but trading is often sufficient.
Sweet JV clued me into a great strategy of MK sliding out of the lk crossup though and that upped my game drastically vs. Blanka. Might try that.
I must be playing the match completely wrong then. How are you dealing with the CW? I can slide and punish on the other side, but I have to practically be psychic if the Fei Long player is good at mixing up distances and timing.
If you get too fireball happy, jump RH, standing fierce, rekka = dizzy and TOD 100% life gone. If you get too limb happy, flame kick shuts that down. Between Dhalsim randomly dizzying so easily and rekka pokes = 1/3 life, I don’t see how the match is 7.5/2.5 in Dhalsim’s favor. Also, Fei builds super meter so fast and it’s so easy for him to get in, you’re in constant fear of sticking anything out once he’s on your side of the screen.
Note: JV mentioned not trying to poke him away after blocking a CW. I do that. I block the flame kick and standing RH, but the risk/reward is not in your favor there if you guess wrong. I’m not getting owned by jump in, flame kick. It’s more CW shenanigans -> throw -> more CW point blank in the corner, rekka whiff -> super, psychic flame kicks, etc.
I’m sure these will continue to change, but here’s my current thoughts on the match-ups
Character - Dhalsim / Opponent
Ryu - 6.5/3.5
Ken - 7/3
E.Honda - 5.5/4.5
Chun - 5/5
Blanka - 6/4
Zangief - 6/4
Guile - 6/4
T.Hawk - 7/3 (Could be lower…I dont play enough good Hawks)
Cammy - 4/6? (I suck too much at this fight to really know)
Fei Long - 6/4
Dee Jay - 6/4
Balrog - 5/5
Vega - 4/6
Sagat - 7/3
Bison - 4/6
Akuma - 6/4
A few notes…
Honda - The more I play this match, the more I think Sim has a slight edge or that it’s at least even. Also, I went to a couple arcade ST tournaments recently and I think he’s definitely tougher in that version. The way he lands from the Ochio along with it’s dizzy potential make things WAY harder if he does catch you, even at mid-screen. His stored super helps him get in better and it being a worse move doesn’t hurt as much as storing helps.
Chun - I also think she’s tougher in ST. Losing an entire round to a random super + up-kicks or meaty flip-kick is gone. So, that’s nice. The nerf to noogie hurts a little, but not enough to skew things back to me.
I’ve been playing on and off lately, I don’t have too much free time. But I have noticed a few things- lk Slide to throw is pretty much my most useful tool, and fuck if chun isn’t the hardest matchup in the friggin world to me.
Just wanted to pop in and say thanks to everyone for the great discussion and advice.
I’d particularly like feedback on the Fei Long matches. Note: against lmhlmh360, I was sliding early in anticipation of a CW, but he was jumping on me with forward. You can’t see the CW come out and react with a slide. I’d really like tips on how I can get better at that matchup.
For those wondering what to do against Honda, I display the general strategy, but it’s not easy. I still need a lot of work in that matchup (and I make mistakes in the video), but at least you can see the general gameplan. Before, I used to get creamed entirely. Now, I can at least make him work for it.
Great match videos Eggo, I learned a lot, particularly with Honda, presently my most hated match…
I notice you never use your super in any of the videos… Have you never used it in the past, or is this a new adaptation since playing Remix? Just curious as to why? I mean, if I were to guess, based on my own ridiculously large number of games I’ve lost trying to get my super, only to put out a meaningless jab or flame, is it because it’s a pain in the ass to do reliably under pressure situations?
In any case, great matches to watch, please post more!
People have mentioned my lack of supering before. My reply is usually I forget I have it. The motion seems very unreliable to me (despite being ‘easier’), so I don’t always think to try it, especially in a dangerous situation like when an opponent is jumping on my head. I have little faith that it will come out when I need it. If you look closely, there are times when I try to do it and I get a duck, duck, jab or back and strong. It gets me killed in the Fei Long fight vs Aerofx I think. I usually try it when an opponent is dizzy or sometimes upon wake as a surprise.
Anyway, I posted many more Dhalsim matches in the stickied match video thread. Go there if you want to see them. Lot of Honda fights, if you’re looking for strategy. I’ll only post the Fei Long videos here, as they show me getting owned by a Fei Long player. Between all the videos I posted yesterday and today, I’m hoping to get some feedback on what I should be doing differently in that fight.
Very good vids Eggo. I really do like a lot of the strategies you bring against certain characters. Especially Honda.
Edit: One thing I try to do against Fei’s that are using CW too much is throw out the standing fierce kick early, or a backward jump with fierce punch to stuff it. I avoid the slide a lot, because I find myself eating low fierce punches too often.
Edit again: Another thing… I notice you don’t use Sim’s b+mp (the uppercut looking thing) to counter jump ins from Fei. Do these not trade well, or is it a matter of worrying about the CW? (I’m at work so I can’t try myself currently.)
