This thread is to centralize any information about the Dhalsim vs Gouken matchup.
This thread will break information down into CONFIRMED and UNCONFIRMED status. Suggestions will be placed into UNCONFIRMED status until a reliable well known poster confirms that it is indeed fact.
News 11/24/2010
This thread is in the process of being restructured. It doesn’t make sense to use 4 posts to contain information for a match-up thread. I believe that I will be able to effectively compress the data into a single thread with 1 held in reserve just in case. I’m going to be making incremental improvements to this thread until it is caught up to spec.
High-Level Play Match-up Videos
none
Confirmed
Improperly spaced rush punches can be punished with lk slide -> super.
If Dhalsim stays at around maximum range for standing fierce every fireball can be punished, charged fireballs can be completely stuffed.
Anytime Gouken holds his Fireball you can IAT and BnB him for free.
Unconfirmed
Deep rush punches can be punished with b+mk -> combo
Between the invulnerabilities and quick start up times of moves like the demon flip, running palm, and parry Dhalsim is forced to play completely reactive. Any predictable poking patterns will be smashed and teleporting TO Gouken without a trap set results in mixup schenanigans.
Consequently, the only strategy that Dhalsim can apply is one of complete reaction play. If the Gouken play can be trained that you will indeed NOT random poke, then he will relax on his parry game giving you new opportunities to poke. His demon flip is very vulnerable and his fireball game is relatively weak.
If Dhalsim stays at around maximum range for standing fierce every fireball can be punished, charged fireballs can be completely stuffed. Demon flips can be beaten by jumping back with roundhouse, and dash punches that hit deep can be punished b.MK->Flame(?) with lk.slide into super.
Specific Matchup Concerns
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[]Absolutely never ultra or super at point blank range if you don’t have the recovery time for an exit strategy. On wakeup or on reaction Gouken can parry and send you flying.
[]Be wary about fireball / teleport mixup as a parried fireball will smash Sim on teleport. If the Gouken is mindlessly parrying the fireball you can teleport AFTER the active frames of the parry dissipate to land a full BnB into super. If the Gouken is parrying on reaction you can try to teleport backwards to make him eat the fireball damage. I’m not sure if there’s a reasonable amount of time before the damage recovers or not, it may very well be free damage recovery.
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Versus Demon Flip:
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[*]Any of Gouken’s demon flip options can be stuffed by jumping b.RH except for the parry which puts Gouken on the ground before Sim.
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[LIST=1]
[]Gouken makes a sound when doing the demon flip. This can be reacted to or used to differentiate early in the move between a demon flip and a jump.
[]IAT backwards with roundhouse stuffs the demon flip options.
[*]His demon flip slide can be punished every time, to various degrees. b.MK -> yoga fire worst case, full BnB best case.
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Versus Running Palm:
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[]Can be countered on block if the move hits deep enough (if it doesn’t hit at max range) with lk slide -> super or b.mk -> flame super (timing is strict and depending on how deep he hits you may get parried).
[]Can be yoga towered at certain distances
[*]Running Palm has some invincibility that can go through limbs and fireballs.
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Versus Fireball:
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[]Jab fireball can be yoga towered.
[]Fireballs can be s.FP at Dhalsim’s preferred distance.
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General Tactics:
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[]In general jumping backwards seems a quite healthy option for Sim to escape heat in this match. jumping b.RH or jumping RH seem to stuff all of his air options. If Gouken hits the ground before you he can immediately jump and do the juggle punch normal which gives me a free super or potentially an ultra depending on how the punch connected…
[]Punishing fireballs with s.FP is a priority in this match. Sim needs a way to land some damage, and reacting to demon flips isn’t enough.
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Going to have to completely disagree with jumping back.
Just think: ex demon kick slide and/or upwards fireball
and if you stick something out while you’re up there you could probably even be punished by slappy palm.
So… don’t stick something out for no reason. The kick slide can be blocked low, or… if you’re just about to land and the slide is about to impact you should be able to hit it CLEAN with most any air to air. Upwards fireballs can be dodged with roundhouse drill or teleport… Teleport still allowing you to react with a normal, drill, or mummy afterwards.
Unconfirmed, but yoga tower should dodge running palm. I don’t play a lot of Goukens but I remember telegraphing that crap out of the running palm with YT. Empty IAT is super risky but a might work as a gimmick against a counter-happy Gouken.
Instead of jumping back rh, I’ve used IAT backwards with rh and it’s been pretty effective.
never jump, he’ll trap you with his fireball…
use a lot of yoga fire to kill his running palms…
keep a safe distance in order to avoid his demon flips… and use a lot of bnb after that…
I don’t have a lot of problem against gouken… for me, his main way to deal great damage is by using EX running palm… if you keep using yoga fire, you’ll be out of trouble… of course you’ll probably take some demonflips but nothing deadly…
You have NEVER played a good Gouken, I’m guessing. If you use a lot of yoga fires you’re going to eat an EX demon flip which sets him up from tons of mix-up shenanigans. This is exactly the kind of situation you DON’T want to be in.
Tower does avoid palm, but it depends on what distance you are from him, just like with Balrog (though you can most of the punches even if he ends up in front of you). But if Gouken ends up in front of you, you’ll get hit. Demon flip low sweep is also avoidable with tower, if he decides to kick in the air you just need to block on reaction (not sure if b.mp works here, but I haven’t tried it yet). Fire ball wars are dangerous though so don’t try them.
Gouken’s rushing palm is supposed to go through projectiles for a certain number of frames, so unless you’re full-screen to 3/4 and the Gouken is bad/playing lazy you shouldn’t be using yoga fire all the time.
Unconfirmed: Doesn’t Gouken grunt or something when he leaves the ground for his demon flip? I’d just wait to hear that and either punish with j.mp or slide.
that’s true… but since light yoga fire is amazingly slow… it will hit him pretty much every time… that’s why i’m mentioning it…
every time i tried to fight gouken without using lots of yoga fire i struggle to survive to his amazing EX running palm combo…
Palm is useless in this fight outside of combos. The Sim player just really has to be on the lookout for Kongo because if Gouken guesses a poke is coming and gets it, then it’s a free get in for Gouken.
You shouldn’t be getting caught by EX running palm unless it’s in the middle of a combo :/. Yoga fire is bait for his demon flip and that’s usually around 30-50% or more of your health gone if combo’ed from it (assuming it’s a really good Gouken). The only real time you should try using a fire ball is if it’s to stop an in-coming fire ball (don’t fire ball again after it comes), or if they are down and you’re trying to set up an IAT BnB. You really don’t want to be obvious with it.
