lets all be honest here: dhalsim is incredibly unfun to play against and capcom was aware of that in sf4. they’re trying to make him work in this one but making it so you can get in on him
Quicker normals with his current toolset should be a good compromise. Not that anyone has really figured out how to use all his normals either.
His teleport still goes like half screen and he now has ways to disrespect most of the neutral game with yoga float into teleport. Hes going to be much more mobile and able to counter other neutral games due to this. That option allows him to stay in a space which is inacessible neutrally for most of the cast and only common in anime games. Which is probably why they may be afraid to buff his neutral game too much.
3 questions:
-Can he V-Skill after an air teleport?
-Can he immediately V-Skill, immediately do a normal fast enough to be a mix up?
-Do normals during his V-Skill build V-Gauge on block?
Looks weak, top sims say he’s weak. A game where rushdown destroys zoning. outcome not to bright.
I don’t care in the least about how unfun Sim is to play against. Do you know how unfun it is to play against Makoto, Hakan, Decapre, El Fuerte, Ibuki? The list goes on. I never wanted any of Sim’s multitude of bad matchups to be nerfed, only for Sim to be buffed. It never happened.
For me, this series is not “Street Fighter,” it’s “Dhalsim vs Street Fighters.” In the last iteration of Dhalsim vs Street Fighters, he was the worst character in the game. The main character should never have so many bad matchups.
That could turn out to be the case, but the neutral is too important to be neglected. Speeding up his current normals wont cover the hole left by st.lk unless you want medium and heavy buttons to start up in 7F and have 8F of recovery. That would be ridiculous. Anywhere near that would be.
For reference, in USFIV, st.hp starts up in 10F with 16F of recovery and st.mp starts up in 9F with 14F of recovery. SFV normals are obviously slower. Even if his SFV heavies and mediums matched those numbers, he would still be incomplete IMO, because st.lk would fill that midrange void better than those could.
Sim should be weak. He is now duo lon of street fighter, good upclose and far away.
Now if he had gief damage and everything else stayed the same, oh dear lord.
Be glad sim is weak again. Appreciate the shortcomings and work around it.
He’s just fine as is.
[Keep him weak and the nerfs will not happen]
i dont plan on maining sim…but wanting him to be weak is pretty selfish to players who do want to main him… these all around nerfs across the board is disappointing to me. weak characters is disappointing to me. i want everyone to be fun AND strong.
What’s the command on his teleport? I’ve read some people saying it was direction+V-Skill but I want some confirmation on that.
Every character needs a balance between strengths and weaknesses. You can’t have no weaknesses and it’s selfish to think otherwise. Sim needs ways to control the neutral game but needs obvious flaws so that a bad read gives the opponent a way to interact with Sim. This is probably why the range of Sim’s long range pokes only cover specific angles and are slower on start-up & recovery to prevent people from playing full screen for more than half the match. Zoning characters are usually difficult to balance because a little buff can go a long way for them. This being said, I would probably expect more changes with the character down the road because there’s been changes in every build of the game thus far.
You guys say that Sim can’t be played like sf4 etc, but I really don’t think Champ would not try to look outside of the box.
Of course stuff will be discovered, but I have my doubts it can be that game changing?
Speak for yourself. I love playing against Dhalsim. Easily my most played matchup. A skilled Dhalsim player really tests a lot of your gameplan’s aspects.
Likewise using him makes for a very unique way to look at the various games he has been in also. I consider his character archetype borderline essential in any SF game and I hope his style is properly represented in SF5. He seems to have a few shortcomings right now, though with the right changes he could really shine. It is still early days though, and there’s a good chance some of the overly harsh judgements of how he appears may be a little too premature.
Too little faith in sim. -_- He is just fine like that.
above 4 is enough. More than enough if he’s above 4 and somewhere near sf2.
I do not expect mvc2 sim but it’s not the end of the world. If his teleport is a V-skill, oh god…
I love to play against Sim because he’s one of the characters I love destroying the most. It’s been like that since SF2. I think Champ and them need to stop playing Sim like SF4 Sim. His tools are obviously so revamped that you have to use him differently. If anything, I think they should have given him a horizzontal fireball that wasn’t EX.
Someone else recorded it on Friday, but I was able to do Karin’s rekkas, anticipate a Dhalsim V-Reversal and do her command grab. She hopped right over his V-Reversal clean and landed the grab. Couldn’t pull that off against other V-Reversals.
Posted this in the General Thread, but I test some simple Sim stuff here:
[list]
[] Around 9:08, I demonstrate the minimum height for Yoga Float
[] Around 7:40, I deonstrate the maximum height for Yoga Float
[] Shortly after testing the minimum height for the float, you hear us discussing how Yoga Tower no longer evades fireballs. You have to use the float.
[] Around 8:10 Gief can air throw Dhalsim during/after Yoga Float
[/list]
Sim has some good anti-fireball tech. Cr.HP and cr.HK can get under projectiles, float can get over them, teleport gets behind them. I’m sure those arcing fireballs will lead to some shenanigans. I imagine chucking a medium fireball and then jump forward and chase it with a drill or something might make the drill plus…
Also in that reveal trailer Sim has some crispy links into flamethrower…
Hmm, yeah, makes sense. Thanks for the input.
I really hope those are enough to help save him in fireball wars. I always feel like lack of a horizontal fireball automatically puts you behind a projectile user in fireball wars. But I have my hopes in Yoga Flame.
Also, I was just watching Justin’s Elena in Canada Cup 2015 and it occurred to me that Dhalsim could use Elena’s forward+MK overhead. It’s great poke in mid-to-close ranges and has the added effect of being an overhead. It also suits aesthetically the way Dhalsim moves around in this game with all those weird poses.
From what footage I’ve seen him, it seems like Sim is more focused on going around fireballs than fighting them directly. I know I saw that weird punch where he goes under his legs go right under a fireball. He also has the float to just disrespect fireballs. Really interested o see what kinda tech people are gonna come up with for him once they get used to him and open up their minds about how to use him.
This Sim is a WAAAY different Sim. He’s arguably more different than Vega and Gief are. Actually, no he just is more different than them. Other than the normals and teleport he is just a flat out new character.
4 hours of SFV Sim play with someone who’s hardened with old school Sim is still going to have trouble. Characters like Dhalsim are common in games like KI and other anime games. He reminds me a lot of Kan Ra in KI where he just has this very abstract way of zoning that nobody could figure out for weeks. Even top players of the main zoning character Glacius had trouble figuring him out. It took literally a month before the character looked like he had a real gameplan. Real early Kan Ra was just a mess of random buttons and specials.
Look at the BIG difference between how this Kan Ra is played (being used by Shinku who is now one of the better Kan Ra players and is one of the most tech savvy players in the game). This is 2 months after Kan Ra came out and still looks very unoptimized even though this version of him is probably completely stronger than his current nerfed version (which is still really good).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj6UyDZT9WY
and this Kan Ra who is basically now considered the best Kan Ra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYvv7DqQMcg
Dhalsim like Kan Ra seems to be a very abstract zoner who doesn’t get into projectile wars in a traditional fashion and seems designed to evade or profile under them instead of engage in them. His new projectile arc, V Skill and V Trigger will take a long while to optimize and you will most likely see a very different Dhalsim after a year.
Again guys… SfV isn’t the most complex game. Yes he has new tools, yes he is a different character, but he is still meant for zoning (his drills are about the same as sf4), and the best zoners can’t zone effectively with his limited move set. It’s not like KI where you get a crazy move set that takes time to optimize. They feel his moves are limited in themselves. If his v-skill had low start upnand was cancelable he would still be hard to figure out, but we would see the potential in what he night be able to do.
Anyway, I hope you are all right. I just have too much faith in those guys.
Never have too much faith in any top player. Not as good as thinking for yourself. Learn to analyze things for yourself first then maybe add in their input to whatever you are already knowledgeable or have researched. Going purely on knee jerk reactions of top players will just slow down your ability to be creative and find the actual direction the devs may be trying to push a character.
Most people thought Kan Ra in his pre patched form was bad at first, but now its obvious that without patches Kan Ra would have been pretty much broken.
No new game is ever the most complex game. SFIV was supposed to be simple and then human beings always do that thing where they make simple things complicated. Same will happen with V. Fighting games are designed to be very open ended and get more complicated with time. I personally just see a character that has completely different tools that normally takes a while to break down regardless in each new game he’s in. He may need some slight adjustments to normals, but the main thing a character like Dhalsim needs is time I believe. Time will come for him.
His trailer is kind of exciting when compared to the Zangief one.
It takes a good trailer to make Sim hype.
Like the air Catastrophy and the Dorrumammu Carpet.
But isn’t his beard like a self fire hazard whenever he blows his fire/flames ?
He better not grow it any longer or he might be sorry.