Yo Val-Venis, Dashieken here. I’ll give you one example of a game plan. When I usually play against you, I wait and try and whiff punish your moves. It’s pretty successful at first until you realized my game plan and then adapted. You form a game plan subconsciously to counter my own strategy, and then execute it with Dudley. I would definitely listen to Ryan and Yuuki but I think you maybe overthinking this topic. You’ll gain more matchup knowledge and move on as you keep playing.
Thanks for replying Dashieken 
Maybe i should type out what ive gained from matchups. sometimes seeing it on paper helps. Nothing really helpful to read in the character specific forums. But yea you may be right, overthinking not sure but im definitely training
I’m not trying to put a label on what Yuuki said up above but he’s right. It is a fundamental game plan not a set game plan and that fundamental gameplan is called a flowchart by most scrubs on these boards. That flowchart is essentially a list of things the opponent can do and how you would personally react to them with a general flow of course applied to them. There is no general flow chart out there, at least not that I know of, but we do have frame data to help us out with that.
A flowchart is exactly what you’re describing and it’s probably exactly what you need just don’t expect that flowchart to hold up outside of punish situations. Beyond that it’ll take a little more micromanaging and presence. And by presence I just mean you have to know where exactly in your fight you are, you can’t just say “I have enough meter to land a super and he has enough health to die by it. Gotta land a super.” That kind of thinking won’t cut it. The opponent already knows about the meter and the health and so do you.
Game plans can change from round 1 to round 2 to round 3 and from match to match.
Sometimes using a game plan with some purposeful holes in it that can be tightened up in later rounds to change the rhythm can be helpful.
Sometimes its useful to let certain things go unpunished which can open up an opportunity when you need to come back from their life lead or end a round. For example, the opponent might get comfortable whiffing normals at unsafe ranges or throwing out blocked shoto low mk when it can be reversal punished. Free damage just waiting to be tapped.
Basically game plans within game plans and so on.
Part of the problem with game plans is that the opponent can pull a game plan mix up right back.
The whole time you thought you were working towards the switch and then you realize the switch is on you.
When you play an opponent of equal skill…depending on the skill level is the match more dependent on the metagame aspect? That portion of the game seems so supernatural. Everywhere i go there is talk of normals,throws, specials, combos, anti airs, execution and supers. But rarely there is mention of the metagame. Is that because people want to keep that info to themselves or because it comes naturally. is meta game play something thats pre planned?
Sorry if we’ve confused you more than helped. It’s probably best to chat using a different platform than a srk forum.
there’s neutral game and okizeme.
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Neutral game includes spacing, zoning (but not like hadouken zoning obviously), approach, ground game, anti air, etc
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okizeme has many layers to it, don’t want to list all.
These things change depending on the match-up, how the opponent plays, the screen positioning, life bars, meter, and stun.
Your question is “is strategy pre-planned?”
to some degree yes, but the strategy can change depending on what I’ve mentioned above.
If you’re asking “do players pre-plan moves 2-3 steps ahead of time?” To some degree a smart player will. This concept is called game-make/making in japan.
I’ll give a few examples of planning/decision making in the next post.
Example 1:
ken red parries another kens super in the corner and does a jump in punish.
Choice A: jump rh, low mk, strong shoryu jinrai
Choice B: jump rh, low mk, double shoryu
Both options do the same damage.
Choice A’s merit: get easier damage, get a hard knock-down. Can go into ambiguous set up after.
Choice B’s merit: build/save meter.
You can choose between the two based on the situation of life bars, super meter, etc.
If this is round 1, you might want to not use super meter and save it for the next round. this is especially true if the situation is you lose the next okizeme you lose the round and you just wasted super without guaranteeing the round.
If you have 2 jinrais built up then it would be strong to go for choice A but if not it’s better to use choice B so you can use jinrai for the next okizeme.
this is just an example and changes based on life/meter/etc. If this is round 1 and you already have a big life lead it’s not even necessary to use jinrai for the next mix up after choice B.
you hit the nail right on the head with those answers. I was just making sure because i fight with more skilled opponents and opponents of equal skill and aside from execution anti airs and stuff i couldnt understand why i would lose sometimes. Like I didnt give the game away by mistakes. It was taken from me somehow. Btw, I had no clue how important meter management was in this game i guess because of how easily you can gain it
You play Dudley so I’ll list a Dudley example.
Example 2: you land kanipan on chun and she’s has more than half stun-filled.
Choice A: full kanipan combo
Choice B: toward mk -> jeppa
Choice A gives you more damage, but in this scenario you might want to go for stun with choice B.
Example 3: you’re midscreen and you land kanipan
Choice A: go into mgb -> ducking upper/straight into cork
Choice B: toward mk-> jeppa
Choice A you get a hard knockdown, more damage.
Choice B: more stun, save meter, but if too far from corner can’t set up okizeme after.
same deal as usual, look at how much life they have, how much life you have, stun bars, meters, etc.
2:20.
kokujin has 2 meters after the kanipan hits. for his next okizeme, if he decided to do dart into cork, he wouldn’t have enough meter for a cork on the 3rd okizeme. Now just because logically this was smart doesn’t mean it would always work. I’m not a top level player so I couldn’t tell you what the other way of killing chun in this situation would’ve been unless I hop on training mode and test things out.
1.) make as little mistakes as possible. (DEFENSE - LOOK AT THIS IF YOU WONDER WHY YOU LOSE)
2.) allow your opponent the opportunity to make mistakes. (OFFENSE - WHY YOU WIN)
3.) find the balance between most efficient and least risk. (MIX BOTH)
4.) don’t be a f-a.ggot. (SELF EXPLANATORY)
You can’t really have a set gameplan in most games, but I would argue that in 3rd strike it is harder than in other games because of parry. I think that 90% of the moves you make should be a read in 3rd. The reads that you make have to be based on the matchup and your screen position of course. In every matchup there are spacings where you are more or less likely to get hurt. You can break down the reads that you SHOULD make based on the spacing and meter that you and your opponent have.
Now I don’t want you to take offense to this but your opponent making mistakes isn’t offense, it’s defense and luck. Forcing those mistakes and then finding a way to learn a little more than he’d otherwise give you is offense.
I’m guessing you mean allow them an option once you’ve established an advantage like after a parry and then moving again to position yourself better and catch them sticking out yet another poke. If this is the case, then it is exactly what I said except the only way it’ll make enough sense for just that statement to illustrate what you’re trying to say is among friends and people that share your common tongue.
you’ll have to ask the lord of street fighter (and that isn’t me)
Also, I think that you have to recognize what style the person you are fighting uses in order to try to counter them. Imo, there are two styles in which people play 3s, regardless of character. The first is represented by people who make offensive reads. These types bet on people not being able to anticipate or counter their own offense. The other style is used by people who try to make defensive reads. These people bet on their ability to see what the other person will do and punish accordingly. There are players of both style for every character in the game, although shitty characters can have a hard time or no success with one or the other. Making constant, offensive reads with Q, not gonna happen. Making rewarding, defensive reads with twelve, also not going to happen. You can clearly see the two styles at play by most good characters however.
If you want to see the best use of the pure offensive style, look no further than boss or KO. The best example of the defensive style would obviously be kuroda. Of course, some players straddle the line between the two, or employ tactics from both. Kuroda and boss lose for the exact same reasons that they win. Kuroda can lose because he isn’t doing anything, and boss can lose because he never stops pressing forward. When you can see what style your opponent is employing, the reads you can and should make become much more clear.
Offensive ken: Deshiken
Defensive ken: Matsuken
Offensive chun: Rikimaru, Nuki
Defensive chun: MOV
Offensive dudley: Kokujin
Defensive dudley: Kaeru
Offensive makoto: Boss
Defensive makoto: Mimora
Characters with good offensive tools as well as good wiff punishing tools lend themselves well to both styles, and can be equally effective with either.
/thread
anymore and someone’s hands are going to start sweating.
this is really good stuff guys thanks.
hey whats a flowchart/ flowchart player? is that a negative term?
of course it is you know that.
Trying to clarify my last post a little more. People also change their style from offensive reads to defensive reads depending on the character they are playing. Your reads should also change depending on your screen position Personally, when I play makoto, I try to make correct offensive reads. However, as an akuma player, I try to focus more heavily on making defensive reads, because making constant offensive reads requires more risk taking. My main partner in grime is a very very effective necro player focusing heavily on his offensive reads when he is in position to make them, and (naturally) an even more effective ken player focusing on making defensive reads.
It is important to recognize “mixup” as soooooo much more than high/low/throw. Your movement is a huge part of your mixup.
Ex: Akuma jumps around and throws fireballs all day, your opponent will begin to anticipate your next jump fireball by using preventative movement. A good player will try to place himself in a position to punish your fireball by walking into a distance where he can dash under your fireball and punish you upon landing. It is important to recognize which fireball is your “last” one, and make sure that his preventative positioning was a mistake by using a divekick to either hit him or upset his rhythm.
Since every character is pretty unique in their movement and attack options, it is important to see the danger of being in throw range, as this is the only place where shit can really hit the fan in terms of the guessing game for every character. Parrying into huge punishes, throws, jump outs, and throw baiting. This is the place where you want to be only when you have 100% confidence in your next offensive/defensive read.