Gouken is not free at footsies, that I can guarantee.
I don’t know about you, but for me if you can hit confirm into a knockdown that pushes half-screen to the corner it is kind of a big issue.
Cody is just as free on wake up but does much better on most matchup ups just because he can put them in situations they don’t ever wanna be.
gouken’s zoning SHOULD be back to normal with the new mp palm(mp fb, mp palm) and the better hitboxes on counter.
st. mp, cr. hp xx mp palm/ex palm are sick hit confirms that will lead into mean pressure and corner push with all the other tools he got from ae, so in theory, with all this things, it SHOULD be a brighter day for gouken.
remember, dhalsim has a worse wake up than gouken and was doing very well for a long time.
my footsies are pretty good, i can’t accept your gaurantee just like that…Like… i think goukens buttons are good, i love his st.mp, i press it a lot and his cr.hk is good and cr.lk is fantastic. His st mk hits zangief and dudley in the face! but then st.mp leads to nothing, cr.hk has a horrible hitbox until it comes out and it’s range is not special, cr.lk is too slow and it leads to nothing on hit just like every other one of his normals except cr. hp (which you can’t footsie with outide of certain scenarios. They’re all single hit slow and non have excellent priority, not one.
This is why i think his footsies are shit:
So you play bison, notice how st.hk and st.mk mixed with lk scissors will keep you pressured, you are not controlling the ground game
You play sagat, and none of your pokes stack up against his st.hk and st.mk. you try to hit his tall bald head with st.mk but his st.hk out beefs yours everytime, you can cr.lk him sometimes but really noone cares about the shit damage and dont think about trying to hadoken after if your opponent is a really good player. also ex low tiger shot say fuck your footsies grandpa!
Then adon is next, see his st.hk, now that’s a good footsie tool right? Lets see you outpoke that. Don’t forget to not focus it, or any of his other 12 armour breaking specials.
makoto enjoys OS her legendary bonkers priority st.mp with hayate and like everyone else she can fadc through your pokes, only she can really screw you over when she gets in.
ryu: nerfed cr.mk x hadoken is enough, then you have ex hado and random solar plexus strike, they lead to ultras in the corner and dont ever get hit by that f.hp
ken: f.mk & cr.mk
akuma: st.hk give you nightmares!
Thats good footsies!
goukens full screen zoning game isn’t good, so cr.lk x lp palm (crap damage) isn’t too good. after they wake up they can just fadc through your fireball and we’re under mid screen again where gouken doesn’t shine. i don’t think gouken is crap, i’m alright with him and i feel i’m only at about 70% of my ‘gouken potential™’, and the new cr.hp is quite a big buff. but you will be put in losing situations and wins will come off the back off capitalising on mistakes. i want to be able to fight back and pressure on the ground myself is all. i think my view on his footsies (ok buttons for poking when neutral, but leads nowehere, easily focusable, average priority and don’t ever get -ve framed and expect to not get counter hit for pressing buttons) is correct, obviously not everyone will agree and if your footsies are godlike and you don’tthen ignore my ramblings
Hey thats al ong post, i guess i’m excited about the buffs!
Oh. I know how fast it travel now, but we don’t know what exactly it does. Can you tell me, by saying 2 x speed, can this punish EX blanka ball? I think it should but I’m not sure.
Without going into the lab it is really hard to tell stuff like this.
You guys weren’t kidding about the amount of salt spewing from the land of Gouki. I hope anyone that owns stock in salt sold off their shares yesterday.
Ahh all right, got it. Wish I had the old super gouken hitbox videos to count how many frames denjin takes to travel full screen (to opponent). Would’ve been easier to speculate from there by overlapping Blanka’s pushback and the hitbox video with frame numbers.
(kongo xx fadc > palm) is going to be a little worse when we get it back, because of the third kongo and the awesome hilarity of getting hp counterhit by jumpins and mp counterhit by standing attacks, but -
200 stun kongo > 200 stun palm > denjin (who knows how much stun we’ll be able to get out of it) could be pretty sick for 2 bars.
denjin is going to need a pretty serious buff for being so bad out of backthrow, though.
(backthrow > u1) is the heart of gouken; when you play with denjin, you can see how many of your wins turn into losses by not having it.
I think I’m feeling the new palms, I actually use MP Palm over HP Palm over an EX Senku in the middle of the screen; just because it connects easier, at least for me, even if I subtract a bit of damage.
At least now this accommodates that.
I hope I’ll like what the new Denjin will feel like, because as much as I like the ShinSho I feel like the Denjin is a lot more fun to play around with.
All in all I’m looking forward to our new and improved Sheng Long
yea shit makes no sense. Cody is already really good, he has some of the most obnoxious frame traps and footsies, and they just got a ton better with walk speed alone. wtf indeed. the buffs gouken got seem kinda underwhelming compared to some of the other bottom characters. But I’d like to think that we actually have to see the buffs in motion before we can really judge, whether it’s the range on lp palm, or the speed of denjin.
Personally I’m glad we cant hit confirm off his light normals, if we could he would be too similar to a lot of other characters who are just constantly throwing our cr.lp so that they can then combo from there. I would hate it if Gouken was like this.
I think the palms are now pretty decent too, let’s face it fierce palm was pointless, in my opinion anyway.
Denjin definitely sounds interesting. Rotating the stick increases the speed and not the charge/damage but the fact that the speed is increased means you can charge it for longer so can get more damage out of it. For example, you could now charge Denjin for twice as long after EX palm if the speed is doubled by rotating the stick. However, as raunwynn said it is nothing compared to Shin Sho after back throw, and I do personally lose matches using Denjin that I’d have won with Shin Sho.
I do wish that Kongo had just gone back to how it was in vanilla/super but who knows how this change will work in practice.
Looking forward to these changes coming but I doubt I’ll be swapping Shin Sho for Denjin.
You can option select a lot more with denjin thoughh, with added dmg and ease of use… Just saying. It could be a contender. 345 dmg on uncharged right?
I’m curious as to what the other changes are. If Gouken is one of the most altered characters in AE 2012, there has to be more changes besides Denjin, Palm, and Kongo.
The mre i think of this, the more i realze that we got fixes rsther than changes. In fact, most of Gouken changes have been fixes. Not saying they don’t help, just szying though…
Kongoshin got fixed to supposedly work after it got nerfed. Hitconfirm is a fix and an add. tatsu even beinf able to be used at all as anti-air was a fix. Giving us back super lp palm/med palm was a fix.
Ex tatsu is a buff/fix
Backthrow nerfed with combo add and frame recovery
OH dive kick nerf
Throw whiff ner
Parry recovery was nerfed then reverted?
Damage nerf
Jury out on lp palm still
Buff j.mp to tatsu and j.hk j.hp
Buff cl.st.mp
Buff cl.st.mk
I’m curious to see if theirs new stuff that can be done off of counterhit fierce. I don’t see him shooting up the tiers at current, but some of the changes remain to be seen I guess
OH palm nerf makes it tougher to throw, no hi lo mixup. It only has two active frames.
The forward throw nerf makes it so 6 frame reversal stop his safe jump setup but that doesn’t help us. Thing is though, I’m pretty surewe’ll be able to c.lk xx tatsu him for trying to use palm in that set up.
Can also do c.lk xx hk flip out if you are scared of c.lk being blocked.
