I am calm. I’m goofing around about seeming upset. Doesn’t mean you didn’t make a serious logic error though.
If they keep his previous changes and add the following two things…
change first hit of super to JP1
cl.st.mk to a command normal
I declare a upper/top tier
What does JP1 mean sir lol excuse my ignorance.
They are doing location test right now and they are still wanting feedback for a FINAL Balance patch list. There is still a chance for us to get more stuff we need to work with so should we make another topic and tweet ono with a final list a changes.
Ive only seen one gouken get on the stream and he got destroyed by a fuerte >_>. He also didn’t even try to make use of the changes at all.
Juggle point. Basically he’s saying make Super’s 1st hit able to pursuit from something like palm or j.MP’s 2nd hit.
Thanks. Sigh… so far on this stream ive seem three goukens and none of them made use of far standing mp or any of his other changes.
EDIT Goukens are getting their asses kicked. Its really sad to watch lol
how is it brainless when 1 of the options is punishable and the other two leave your opponent in a pretty good position because goukens offensive game isn’t amazing. it’s a good thing that there are ways to keep momentum when you score a knockdown.
whats brainless is srk fadc. some characters build meter easily so losing 2 bars doesn’t mean much.
i dont see it happening, nothing there stops rushdown or improves his wakeup game, which is his main weakness. st.mp is a good buff and it improves his defense but you have to throw it out before your opponent is in range of their pokes, which means you have to guess they’re going to walk into it. he still can’t zone on par with the majority of the cast, he needs super to punish lots of things everyone else can punish for free (anything <-5 outside his cl.st.mk range) which means gimping his overall game by not using ex moves, his backdash is worthless, he has nothing safe on block that he can chip with at mid range like sobat, scissors, headbutt, jab ball, shoulder barge from yun, adon specials, ibuki spin kicks, guy overhead running kick etc to stop people from just getting in his face.
cl.st.mk has a pretty good range dude, I think you are underestimating the range if it were a command normal. If there exist a tiny range where Gouken couldn’t punish moves < 5 frames so be it, it wouldn’t be NEARLY as big as it is now. JP1 on super first hit means scary big punishes off raw hits, in addition to everything else. With the damage Gouken deals throughout the course of a match I think this would be plenty sufficient.
I understand the other deficiencies you are talking about, but I just think that gouken being not nearly as free moves < 5 frames combines with all his other changes and super with JP1… Yeah.
Soooo ummm…our good old overhead. I was just watching crosscounter asia speak on the buffs and they shed some light on the whole “now does heavy hitstun” change. According to them this means that there is a lot more hitstun on it…soooo…does this mean that we can combo off our overhead now?? This may be what its implying guys 
If they increased hitstun/blockstun, dev blog would’ve said they increased hitstun/blockstun. They unfortunately didn’t. There are still hidden changes tho.
I do like how far st.HP grew up from vanilla SFIV. From 2 active frames to 5 active frames. I think I will use this even more.
This may be true but the devs really like beating around the bush with certain things. So I am keeping a positive look on that hitstun/blockstun buff
After a nice online session I’ve started to think that the removal of the hp palm will make the anti air fireballs completely worthless and obsolete. It’s a gamble to do those anyway, and in those close quarters where you use mp palm to follow up an fb, ex tatsu will always be the better bet.
They really really shouldn’t remove the hp palm. The current lp palm is trash, it is used in one or two blockstrings, but it should not be kept at the cost of the hp palm.
It is pretty much trading anti air fireballs and hp palm for one safe blockstring and some other combo related things. It’s definitely not worth it. And just because there are japanese players and others who never use anti air fireballs to follow ups doesn’t mean that they should be removed.
boo-urns.
Other than the palm issue I like the changes alot, and +1 for command normal on the cl.mk. Ex tatsu should probably hit crouchers too.
COMPLETELY AGREE MAN THIS FUCKS US UP AND TAKES A VERY SOLID ROUND WINNER OUT OF OUR HANDS JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE SO REVOLTED BY AE LPALM, SHOULD HAVE JUST HAD IT REVERTED TO SUPER, INSTEAD WE LOST A GREAT TOOL!
You have other options after far anti air fireball like Demon flip Sweep which will result in an untech knockdown. Also if im understanding yoou correctly your talking about close quarter anti air fireball then ex tastu. In that situation just use mp palm and save your meter/ex tastu for anti airing. Lets be honest those far anti air fireball follow uphp palm situations dont happen too often and HP palm is just too slow and VERY unsafe. I for one like the new palm set up and can’t wait to use it. It just makes more sense plus we get old lp palm back which means our setups from super and vanilla are back. I would rather have Lp palm back because I used that alot more then hp palm.
I would not call the current lp palm we have now trash and I make plenty use of it and like it very much. A quick armor break move thats safe on block for the most part. It can be use for oki since it connects from crlk and if they block your still safe most of the time. In 2012 we are getting even more range although we dont know how much farther the hitbox is right now but we know its an improvement. Its not an all perfect awesome move but it has its uses.
Plink? no.
Double-tap? yes.
I’m going to use it for fun, not seriously or anything of that nature.
I know that we lost AE’s HP palm and it’s now MP palm, but does that mean that Upper’s HP palm is exactly identical to current MP Palm? As in, damage and range?
To be honest I wasn’t happy with AE’s LP palm and now seeing that since the advent of AE we’ve lose range on two palms now it’s kind of bothersome.
If you’re gonna make HP Palm the range of current MP’s, at least retain the original damage.
Rarely do I use LP Palm, I suppose the push back in block strings means something but in combos either of the others is a clearly better alternative.
I’d rather have the ranges return to Super but make LP Palm safe on block (or at least neutral).
Nah I meant that in the close quarters it’s better to just use ex tatsu. aa fireballs can trade alot in your disadvantage if you use them that close.
So you can use mp palm off a fireball at that range of course, but the ex tatsu is by far the better option. So at long range we don’t really have air fireball follow ups, and at close the tatsu is better. So in both cases mp and hp fb to palm follow ups are worthless (or non existent).
The flip sweep, because of ae’s hitbox change, is alot harder to hit, and doesn’t really leave you very well set up afterwards. The kind peopl you’d be long distance aa fbing would be people you want to keep away from you. The flip sweep gives you very little recovery so when you do that, you do little damage (if you do any, because it’s hard to hit because of the hitbox changes) and the person you were trying to zone has got closer to you for free.
I liked the old lp palm to. I’m not seeing the great use of this current lp palm for armour breaking though. The range is so crap that you can almost always just throw in that situation. Throw’s are probably faster too.
The hp palm, if you don’t use those aa fireballs, has no use outside of combos and then is useless. Imo if you only use it like that then you never used it. Hp palm is for giong through slow fbs and catching people from aa fbs.
I agree the lp palm isn’t completely trash, I was just exaggerating a bit for effect there. It’s nice to have a safe upclose chip off something that isn’t a bit slow cr.hp, but those two or 3 little smidgens of chip you would get from it certainly aren’t worth the possible big damage you can get from a hp palm follow up. Hp palm follow up to at least one bit of chip, and further zoning. It’s been said before in the thread, the ideal situation would be to combine the two lp palms in the ways that were suggested.
And since the patch announcements I tried to do the air fireball follow ups without hp palm. Doing hk flips, which I got a bit, and mp palms. Mp palm aa fireball situations are extremely rare, and the hk flip is crap. In the end I just stopped doing the upward fbs. Until I realised I might as well use what gouken has now while he still has it.
fixed
Demon Flip Slide still works long range and we can oki them from it. Mid screen Mp Palm can still connect, and we can do it up close again with lp palm. We also get all the lp palm frame traps and punishes that we lost in AE.
Against fireball characters it was a good tool from full screen, but EX Flip and Slide still own at that range. We just have to use better positioning.
Maybe the new palm buff will help too. If his normals have been made better, then his frame traps should be better as well.
If you want to conserve meter, dash and then Hk Demon Flip Slide.
on reaction, mp palm (the current version) can get you through fireballs…if you’re feeling ballsy