PvP is so stale. They need to address weapon balance again. Waiting until the Taken King to make changes is a mistake.
They need to make Auto Rifles and Fusion Rifles relevant again. Hand Canons should not have the same range as Scout Rifles.
The risk vs reward of shotguns is a joke. The reward of a one shot kill is there, but the risk of getting close is non-existent.
Then there’s the maps Blind Watch, Shores of Time, Asylum, and Firebase Delphi. Poorly designed maps that all favor one side over the other. I would go as far to say that if two teams of equal skill were to play on Blind Watch or Shores of Time, the winner would be based solely on which side the teams started on. It’s not as bad when it’s 3v3, but 6v6 control really makes things worse.
Also, why does Iron Banner always have to be control? It’s so stale.
I really think more people need to learn how hold the “worst” control point. Everyone always complains about the unbalanced points and I’m pretty sure the design philosophy was to have the worst point easiest to defend, and in practice that’s true. So in actuality it’s not unbalanced it’s the fact that 99% of the game population can’t think outside the box and come to that realization. For example, on shores of time if I spawn at A, I’m running between A and C. I never go to B unless: 1. The other team is bad, or 2. I’m playing as or have a smart defender Titan on my team. This strat plays pretty well for most maps. In fact, I’ve played games where I had smart players on my team and won the match holding the worst flag the whole match. All we did was pick off kills, got the lead and played defense. The number one thought process you should have playing control is that you can’t lose unless you die.
You see, no one ever goes the “hold 2” method. Know why?
NO ONE USES A FRIGGIN’ MIC!
PVP is just a bunch of teammates running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Everyone always tries to take all three, when all you ever need to do is control two. However, even in this sense, Blind Watch is horribly balanced. Points B & C are way too close. If I spawn at C, you’re done. Couldn’t care less how good you are - you’re toast. That simple.
I agree with you as far as Shores of Time goes though. A&C is money.
Grab the flag close to you
Hold the one that has the most routes to it from you home location
???
Profit
You can’t get all three unless you were dominating from the start
Doesn’t work against well comprised teams
I have won matches on Shores of Time from just holding C flag. I have also won by just sitting on A when I played with friends, but that match took forever, it was not fun. If the other team used the same tactic they would still win because they would get the points for B + C and sit on the lead. If you have to go to such lengths to win just because you started on one side, then the map has issues imo.
The absolute worst thing about Blind Watch and Shores of Time is that it forces one side to funnel into small door ways that are close to flags, while the other side has cover, sniper perches and fast routes to the other flags. On Shores of Time, even trying to take C from A side is literally an uphill battle. You are forced to take the small cave or the small doors to the left, but the other team can just sit up top and hardscope the shit out of C and B flag.
And here’s what kills me about Blind Watch: You spawn at A, you work your ass off to take C, you now have A + C, you now have the 50/50 chance of spawning at A or C, but the game decides to spawn you and your team at A. Enemies spawn at B and just walk out the back door to C. How do you fight that?
Taking A and hoping the other team is dumb can work, but having to concede to such a strategy because of the 50/50 of where you start is laughable. If Bungie wants it to be played like that then they should split control into two rounds and each round has the teams swap starting spawns. That is something that was done in CoD domination because of the same problem with asymmetrical maps.
I grew up on Unreal and its symmetrical objective maps. They were boring aesthetically , but they were fun competitively. Asymmetric objective maps are one of my pet peeves about modern FPS.
I’m so sick of the Thorn I can’t even stand to play Crucible anymore. Forget about even trying Trials without that or a Hawkmoon.
So many problems would be solved if Hand Cannons just got a universal range nerf. There’s no reason they need to have the range of a sniper AND be that powerful.
Yeah, weren’t we supposed to get some kind of playlist with no radar, base weapons that are of equal strength and loadouts? What ever happened to that?
See, this shit right here is what I’m taking about. Spawn the same guy in front of me over and over. He spawns near C each time. Fight like crazy to take that flag. Then I die, and it respawns me in front of fucking enemies at A flag while it’s still in enemy control. LOL the fuck?
yea thorn teams are obnoxious. im not gonna lie, yall know im prolly the biggest supporter of shotguns, but fuck man, felwinters is just absurd, like seriously. i cant beleive found verdict is actually a useless shotgun now. i think they should remove shot package or make it scale based on the base range of the shotgun, cause all these new long ranged shotguns they added and all of them can be reforged to get ragefinder and shot package…like wtf?..shit is OP as fuck.
I think the closest they got is the Inferno playlist, which is a rotating gametype. Might hop in there next time it’s around, sounds fun and I finally have enough people to play with that would make it quite tactical. Wow, I’m kinda hyped for it now.
Yeah, as much as I give the top tier guns some leeway, shotguns probably get me the most mad. I don’t care that closing the distance is a low-risk maneuver really, but it’s the perk combos for shotguns that really put them over the top. I think they had a chance with HoW to really body the dumb perk combos on old weapons, but they chose to take the path of least resistance by not retroactively killing old perks on old guns. I can see why, but I think it’s still dumb.
To top it off, they introduced a few new shotguns and some of them are objectively more ridiculous than Felwinter’s. Again, I can see why they’d do that and I try to play around it, but some of the ranges you can get sniped by with these weapons still surprise me. Outside of Hawkmoon and Atheon’s Epilogue, shotguns are the only weapons that legitimately surprise me when I get killed by them.
My REAL issue, though, is with the waterheaded level of play the gun type promotes. I’ve actually had a few games of Iron Banner last night where I had people chase me across entire maps (I’m talking like doing laps) just constantly trying to Blink shotty me from 50 yards away…like, seriously? I might upload some tonight. There are clips of me just double jumping around while people are trying to shot package snipe from pulse rifle range. Truly embarrassing. I was playing on Rusted Lands last night behind the water tower at A and some guy just kept trying to Blink shotty and I was just hopping around; my friend said, “Hey, watch out behind you!” and I replied, “Yeah, I know. It’s kinda weird, but just watch.” And he sat there (using the sit emote) as I just bunny hopped and put the occasional primary shot into this guy for about twenty seconds. If the dude was using Universal Remote, I would MAYBE understand, but he did not once even try to change to his primary, where he could have EASILY picked me off, even using an Auto Rifle.
My friend got bored, took the kill and left. D:
True. Hard to coordinate things on matchmade stuff with anybodies, though. Maybe there should be a power advantages enabled playlist that rotates what gametype is played every week. But then people would just complain about Thorn more.
To point, I don’t mind Thorn that much. It’s pretty strong, probably top three in weapon strength overall right now. I only keep one Thorn, so it only gets used a portion of the time, but the real problem with the gun is Send It. I don’t know why it has this perk, but it’s the only reason it can snipe people so consistently. I don’t mind playing against Thorn users that much for some reason. Not sure why, but I just don’t care. Almost all of my Iron Banner games and an increasing number of my regular Crucible games involve fighting against Thorn, so this is what I would imagine playing competitive 3S was like for people who really liked the game.
I think Bungie has a mandate for weapon balance to happen like…yesterday, but I feel like it won’t happen until TTK. There is too much to do and my feeling is that all the guns we have now won’t move on to TTK in terms of viability. They’re probably focused more on getting it right next time than trying to get it right now and then having to scrap all of it for TTK anyway. Could be an interesting sort of “beta” for whatever they want an improved PvP experience to look like, though.
Fusion Rifles are alright, but they’re not a weapon you can go into any map with. I explicitly take them to smaller maps where I can snipe with a primary instead of an actual sniper rifle. Cauldron is a good example off the top of my head. They’re specialized weapons–and to be honest, it’s not that fusion rifles used to be relevant, it’s that Pocket Infinity used to be amazing lmao (that gun still brings the hatemail, though #PraiseBe). I don’t mind that they’re not super amazing right now because they’re amazing when they work and if they worked more consistently, it might actually be a problem. That being said, I think Bungie doesn’t know exactly what they want fusion rifles to do yet. I’m expecting in the next big PvP overhaul that fusion rifles will get some sort of rework.
I already talked about shotguns, but if anything, I just treat Blink shotgun like Nova Bombs. You can’t run away, just just run under them and THEN run away, or turn while they can’t and shoot. It is what it is. I’m not a great player, so I would obviously lose to players better than me more times than not, but I find that most players are actually retarded, so I don’t really think about whether or not it will/won’t work until it does/doesn’t.
Blink is retarded
news flash nimrods you dont actually faze out of reality when you blink lmfao
energy trail is easily seeable
and the best thing to do with those guys is to jump with them. Cause the flash point during the jump is the point that they cant see you and what you do. add that on to the fact that the blink jump mostly carries the momentum that you initially had before the jump and its not very good.
space jumps will always be better and they control the neutral much better
Got all my characters to rank 5 in Iron Banner. I need to get on that Glimmer grind before reset.
For Blink Shotgunners, I usually run under them. The thing that makes Blink so good is the low FoV. I think Destiny has the lowest FoV of any FPS I’ve ever played.
I think Blink should have a cooldown after 1 jump instead of 2 like it is now.
Pocket infinity is a terrible PvP fusion rifle though. Before the shotgun buff, it was the go to secondary against pve bosses and heavy shielded enemies, but PvP? Not great at all. Slow charge rate and low range, while other fusions have better range and charge. Check out the fusion on my warlock, it’s the original perun’s fire that I got from IB last year. It has the best rolls for its archetype imo. I’m primarily a fusion rifle user in PvP so I’ve gone through quite a few of them lol.
The only time the Pocket Infinity was good in pvp was when its charge time was bugged. Even then it burned through ammo.
Even the new Perun’s fire is good. Best impact, range, and charge rate for a legendary. Plan C is still good too, but no one’s going to use it now because special ammo is more scarce.
I did the same thing. 6 etheric light get i didnt bother getting any armour… the poe/trials are much better. I did pick up the jolders hammer though. I just need a titan gauntlets with hand cannon reload speed and melee speed and im all set.
No, I just want there to be more viable weapons than the 3 Exotic Hand Canons, Red Death and Shot Package shotguns. I think it’s dull that people will try to run at you with a shotgun when they are clearly out of range. These shotguns promote dumb play.
I was one of the people that didn’t want Auto Rifles nerfed, except for Suros. I’ve said several times how I hate all the low impact, high RoF AR’s.
The fact that an entire class of weapon was nerfed into uselessness is the reason why the Hand Canons are on top. I even said way back in this thread that the Thorn was a good pvp weapon before it was buffed, Suros was the only reason you didn’t see it more.
i didnt bother getting any armour… the poe/trials are much better. I did pick up the jolders hammer though. I just need a titan gauntlets with hand cannon reload speed and melee speed and im all set.