~THE DANTE MATCHUP THREAD~
[LEFT]Foreword**:** As the title states this is a matchup thread. What it does not state is that as we already know, this is a team game. So it should be readily apparent that trying to make a comprehensive matchup thread should seem like a titanic task. Frankly, it is. This is not the end goal of the thread, but when people need help I hope this is a place they can start.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]The possible combinations of teams are not worth counting so more often than not this thread will address what needs countering ie: popular strategies. This is where as a community I hope we can come together and pool our knowledge and resources to come up with answers for the questions that beg responses. No one person can be expected to know every matchup, but if we all know a bit that’s more than enough.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]With that being said this should serve as an organic archive of tips and tricks against characters, their assists, the strategies being employed, and how to deal with them. Dante’s tool set has an answer for a variety of situations. Now to find out what questions to ask.[/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT]I think the breakdown will be something like this, any suggestions are welcome.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Hard-Counters (What you can do to stop X character’s Y.)[/LEFT]
[LEFT]General Strategy (What they want to do and how to avoid letting them do it.)[/LEFT]
[LEFT]Assist Breakdown (For example things like how to counter Vajra would be in the Strider section. What are his preferred assists? How to minimize their impact and who you can have backing you up.)[/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT]I’ll be improving the format overtime as need be as well as adding my 2 cents to the content in addition to what all of you post.[/LEFT]
[LEFT] [/LEFT]
[LEFT]Matchups Part I[/LEFT]
Akuma
[details=Spoiler][/details]
[spoiler=Amaterasu][/details]
Arthur
[details=Spoiler][/details]
[spoiler=C. Viper][/details]
Captain America
Spoiler
Hard-Counters:
[LIST]
[]Charging Star xx Hyper Charging Star- When the opponent does this they’re just cancelling one unsafe move into another and hoping you flinch. Hold back and plink a late pushblock starting with :h: for a throw/pushblock OS.
[/LIST]
**General Strategy **
[LIST]
[]Shield Slash is punishable when poorly spaced. If done too close you can hit Cap before the return trip of the shield clips you from the back. When they’re throwing them from the air it’s possible to utilize Dante’s low profile dash to get under/close quickly and score a punish.
[]Most of Cap’s assist revolve around him mixing you up through Cartwheel. Not being in range for these shenanigans is key (learn to backwards wave/plinkdash). He also has much faster normals than you do so if you are put in this situation you just have to block your way out. This is Marvel, so blocking is a terrible situation to be in.
[]You want to zone where his options cannot beat yours. Throw airplays from ranges where you cannot be charging star’d and only use Hysteric/Jam Session when he takes to the skies.
[/LIST] Assist Breakdown
[spoiler=Morrigan] Hard-Counters
[LIST]
[]Twister beats Soul Fists clean, from both sides. This is also one of your better GTFO me moves in this fight. It can also save you from a lot of chip damage at a distance. Factoring in Hidden Missiles, it’s more difficult to use and evade chip as you may be punished. So pick your spots.
[]Jam Session also eats up Soul Fists/Missiles and can be used to inhibit rushdown. Morrigan’s carelessly chucking and dashing in can eat a pillar of lightning for their troubles. *
[/LIST]
**General Strategy **
[LIST]
[]In this fight you want to allow as little access to Morrigan’s assist as possible. Once she gets started it will be hard to stop. I would opt for RTSD in the beginning of the match once you deal with the opening gambit. The less breathing room she has the better it is for you.
[]If she goes on the offensive Crystal/Twister/Jam Session/Hysteric are your best friends. Crystal can help dissuade shell kick pressure from afar. Twister can serve as a GTFO tool. Jam Session can eat up a lot of projectiles and halt offensive advances from the top of the screen. Hysteric will help you slow down the pace of the match if you can safely get it out, but the first three are better answers for actual problems.
[/LIST] Assist Breakdown
[LIST]
[]*You want to do your best to keep missiles off the screen at all costs. Establish ground control with Crystal/Hysteric/Drive/Stinger+Beam Assists if you have access. Use Stinger xx Reverb/Twister to nullify calls when they do happen. *
[/LIST]
[/details]
so what should i do against cap?
seems like the range where you usually want your opponent is exactly where cap likes to chill and toss that stupid shield over and over. trying to out-projectile him is too risky because of charging star, and stinger isn’t as useful as i’d hoped since he’s going to be jumping most of the time.
then of course you don’t want him to be in your face, as there’s that little bit about all of dante’s moves having about a day of start-up, vs cap’s magical 2a that says ‘fuck you’ to everyone and everything.
and not to mention “I NEED BACKUP!”
(try to punish assist)
“HYPERRRRR… CHARGING STA-”
** do you want to turn off the system? YES / no **
Cap dominates the mid-range and has faster normals than you so you want to be at a range where shield slash is ineffective. When you’re outside of shield slash range he’ll probably opt to jump in on you if you’re controlling the ground with other projectiles. You can opt to throw out a Hysteric/Crystal/Jam Session since he does not have access to charging star then try to force a mixup. Through this you may be able to force a ground game when the aerial approach becomes fruitless. Stinger can then become a much more viable option for dominating the ground.
The other range you want to be in is in between close and mid-range. A range where Cap’s normals don’t reach and throwing shield slash is unsafe. You might be surprised at the ranges you can punish a badly spaced shield slash with st.M/cr.M and reverb shock. At the very least by making him block you can nullify the shields hitbox on the return and put yourself at an advantage.
When you’re in the mid-range don’t be afraid to make use of Dante’s low profile dash (goes under Wesker’s gunshot too) against a Cap throwing aerial shield slash. This can quickly get you to a range where you can punish hard.
Close range I try not to be in since you’re normals will just get stuffed. A tactic I use is to wavedash back and boxjump forward (works wonders against shield-skills happy Taskmasters). You can avoid L Charging Star, but if they get a read they can use M/H. Otherwise this gets you out where his normals can reach and you may score a whiff punish into full combo. You can also boxjump right over a L shield slash and bop them with j.H if they misread you.
I also believe there is a pushblock plink OS with :h: to deal with Charging Star xx Hyper Charging Star shenanigans. If they don’t have meter then fight the urge to pushblock and then you can punish without giving them free advantage.
Hmm, I’m just after a set against Yipes’s team (but not against Yipes lol) Spencer/Vergil/Hawkeye, using Dante on point II can share some sights.
Vergil:
Do not, I mean DO NOT j.S against Vergil unless you are about to cancel it into air play way above the ground. Vergil can teleport behind Dante on reaction and get a free punish --> dead Dante.
Air play is quite nice zoning tool, as you don’t commit to it, and you can react to teleports, berserker slash, swords super or any other shenanigans hi might try.
Stinger. Vergil tend to relay on his over extended range (speed like Wesker, range like Dante and priority as Doom) so Stinger can catch him on that. all ways remember he got the exact same tool (just easier to cancel…)
Care with air dash C. Again, Verigl’s range is quite dumb and he can hit you easily out of the air. Unless he respect you (using assists, hammer or zoning) treat with care.
The matchup is pretty much footsies fight as you both got the roughly the same range.
Vergil will look for opportunity to call shots/beam assist and start his teleports shenanigans. Do not give it to him by:
- Blocking on the ground for to long
- Super jumping. Don’t retreat to doing j.S as he can just wait for you to get close to the ground and teleport behind you for free.
You got better zoning, use it (i.e Air Play tip), care for teleport behind.
He is quicker, do not fight him at close range, same goes for natural position (i.e. both natural at sword range, trust me, he will get the hit). Dante will want to get in hit range with his sword already swinging.
Spencer:
Most of his hooks are fast and can get even behind full screen j.S / Hammer, treat with care. (i.e he do ground zip, you j.S, he get to other side before your j.S land -> RIP Dante)
Learn to block, he is one of the most dangerous characters in the corner, covered by assist he will get you 7-8 out of 10. Don’t let it be 10/10
If he tries to jump horizontal zip, if he is not covered by assist, M H S him out of the air for some free damage. If covered by assist try just not to be there. You can try jump throw, but he can tech it.
Jump back j.M/j.H air play can shut off most of his zip game.
Care about diagonal zip (jump, d.f zip) it can beat almost anything you got, just try to stay out of reach.
BS block. Spencer will throw random Bionic if he is desperate (or bad), especially if he got godlike safe DHC like Vergil. Use it to block after whiffed normal, don’t be free.
It’s more of common thing then Dante specific, but don’t mess with his overhead mixups, just push block him away.
Hysteric is quite good, just care not to get grappled.
Same goes for Crystal try to keep honest on his approach.
As for most Dante match ups, he is quicker, so keep him at sword length range. This mean you will run away from him most of the match to keep that range. Really don’t mess with his normals, they are gdlk and the convert from almost any random hit will kill you.
For approach he will probably needs to call an assist, look out for miss call, and punish with Stinger into whatever you can confirm. Remember it is risky, and he can Bionic Arm while you cannot BC block it, so use with care, and don’t let him bait you into it.
Last thing (for now), don’t be afraid to go in with assist cover (care for Bionic) as long as you fight at your comfort zone. His range really can’t par with yours. Just don’t run mindlessly into his neutral/back jump > diagonal d/f zip.
Probably won’t help anyone, I’m not that good at doing this
He lacks mixups, only Hidden Missiles can make him scary with Cartwheel.
Unless he’s doing TK L Shield Slash, he’s very easy to wavedash under and punish. Spend some time in training mode to see just how easy it is to punish that. Most online Cap’s aren’t doing TK SS, and the good Cap’s don’t do it at all. Hyper Charging Star can be hit out of, you just have to do it fast.
As for his 2A, it has pathetic range in comparison to your St.L, make it hard for him to be effective, as Dante’s normals from a distance are so much better. Try not to shoot too many air fireballs, Charging Star eats them for free.
unibeam and drones are both incredibly irritating with cap, but yeah most of the time it’s not his mixups that are hitting me, just bad decisions on my part (or even more questionable decisions by the other player, but i mean if it works, it works… i guess.) i do need to work on punishing shield slash, seems like it’s one of those moves that’s deceiving in how unsafe it is.
regarding 2a, it’s not the range that gets me, it’s that the move literally has half the startup of anything that dante has. i guess i just get too impatient/flustered and try to press buttons, which most of the time just gets me hit, lol. i find that i let cap players get in on me really easily, probably because i’m too afraid of random ass charging star into billions of damage to commit to anything.
it doesn’t help that usually when i win vs. cap it’s because he did something stupid and/or unsafe, and i manage to kill him. so i don’t feel like i’m ever learning anything about the matchup as much as i am just waiting for the player to make a mistake.
We’ve all been through worse, lol. Don’t worry about Cap with such assists.
Trust me on this, when you punish those SS’s you’ll feel more comfortable with the matchup.
I play Vergil, my very good friend plays Cap. All I know is when he get’s in my face, I stop pressing buttons and just block, you have to respect the Cr.L, but don’t fear it.
Charging Star into hyper is bleh, but once Cap loses that bar, he’s so susceptible to rush down or zoning, it’s OK to take that hit. Just make it count afterwards. And if Dante is your point character, make sure you KILL HIM with the second DHC. Just to avoid all problems.
Try not to let Cap “frame trap”, I put the quotation marks there as he’s at a disadvantage every time he presses a button. Remember to press your natural advantage.
I haven’t played Cap for a while, but I do play Cap myself. Shield Slash is incredibly good if someone try to rush in, not to close though as the recovery take ages. If you predict it, just teleport I guess (that what Strider tends to do). Otherwise try to zone him from the air (i.e Air Play) and wait for him to do something stupid. Cap is not the most mobile character, so you should pretty much be able to dance around him even if he charge (wave dashing) with assist behind him.
Charging head on Caps is quite a suicide.
i think i have a handle on the haggar match-up, it goes something like:
hysteric, drive, drive, drive, drive, crystal. according to my research, haggar will get hit by anti-air crystal a good 99% of the time, giving you a free combo.
on a (slightly) more serious note, going in on haggar doesn’t work too well. i like to bait lariat, which will almost always be cancelled into rapid fire fist or w/e it’s called, then hit him with the hammer.
and if you don’t feel like taking any risks whatsoever then activate devil trigger, triple jump, call assists and spam thunderbolts. or just vortex through everything haggar tries.
this is probably obvious stuff but whatev.
also the dt stuff applies to a lot of things, not just vs shitty characters like dear mayor mike.
I’ll share my expierence vs Hulk since I fight someone who uses him quite often.
The obvious is watch out for that st.H or standing Hulk as I call it and to not underestimate it when going in.
I’ll usually bait out a Gamma Charge or st.H and punish it with a quick L into combo or if I’m not too close I’ll close the distance with a Reverb Shock.
On that, I recommend being selective with Dante’s specials vs. Hulk and against his armored moves, leaning more torwards fast, multi-hit specials to bypass his armor such as Reverb shock or Twister, as a special such as a single raw Hammer with only 1 hit, or Revolver that is too slow in between hits, can be easily eaten and smacked out of.
Zoning with Airplay is essential if you dont want to get lockeddown, be wary when using Hysteric when you aren’t full screen as youre on the ground and left still for a bit and might be punished by a Gamma Charge.
If you have a projectile/beam assist, adding that with Hysteric/Airplay can keep Hulk at a distance.
Be cautious as Hulk can cancel his moves into his Gamma Crush hyper which is invincible on startup, so if he has meter to spend, be sure to keep your distance and bait it out if he starts to cancel into it often (remember hes invincible on the way up until the meteor explodes so dont try and punish with Acid Rain, Twister, etc).
A good special to punish from the air with is Killer Bee, as you can jump up and back to avoid blockstun from Hulk allowing you to safely move in (Hammer can also be utilized if Hulk is under you once he is in recovery from his moves).
Worst case scenario, the Hulk player will have Sentinel Drones/Doom Missiles on backup to lock you down, since Dante isnt too fast on punishing assists, wait it out and dont try to stop Hulk once the assist is out, as attacking can be punished by armored moves and if succsessful you will be hit out of it by drones/missiles.
Super jumping when Drones/Missiles are out and charging an Airplay can be helpful to avoid chip and blockstun from Gamma Waves/Charges and potentially being put in the corner.
-If you have meter to spend, I will stress that Devil Trigger can be HIGHLY useful against Hulk (with or without drones/missiles) as it gives you tools to counter:
Thunder Bolt which is muti-hitting and can be linked up to three times, while keeping you away in the air.
Air Raid flight can help you runaway from a potential lockdown or XF Hulk, and if he tries to catch you with a Gamma Crush hyper, you can simply unfly and block.
Vortex can also be life saving, as if your Thunder Bolt is going to be punished by a Gamma Quake or Gamma Crush, you can use this move to get out of the way as youre invincible on startup and it puts you on the other side of the stage.
The extra air dashes given is also useful for making space between you and Hulk, putting you at a safe vertical or horizontal distance.
If your are at a good distance away, using a pre-emptive Crystal can be a good spacing tool as Hulk cannot Gamma Charge through the multiple hits ( do not cancel into Million Carots as it is only a single hit and Dante can be hit out of it by an armored move), also if your are close enough you can go into Reverb shock after Crystal hits to continue your combo.
Once you become familiar with the Hulk player’s strategy and pattern, using Grapple to punish at the right time is also key, as it ignores armor and will allow you to go into a full combo.
If youre going for Air Trick crossups, be mindful of st.Hulk’s hit box as it hits above and slightly behind him on startup (right where Dante is placed) so be sure to cover yourself with Acid Rain/Multi-Lock or a projectile assist to avoid being smacked.
Advancing Guard should be obvious to avoid chip/lockdown but if the chance presents itself, dont be afraid to punish.
Remember, Dante’s Devil Must Die is invincible on startup and if going through a projectile, the distance increases, so if youre about to be hit by a Gamma Tsunami super, Dante’s level 3 is one way out.
Overall, Dante’s objective vs. Hulk should be to play counter-offensive, zone to keep the distance and bait the mistake, and move in when you can punish.
Anyone have any tips for dealing with Arrow dudes? Hawkeye especially. It feels like once that character gets 3/4th screen distance away and I don’t have Vajra shit gets exponentially harder than it has to be. I’m not the greatest player around, but it does feel like if he’s not contained, it gets damn troublesome to deal with.
Depends on assists but you can punish most shots with a teleport jm or heavy if you get a good read. He has to be careful with his shots and this gives you time to wave dash in between his assists calls if his just standing there waiting for assist cool down to come back up. If he super jumps away the moment you get near you can charge up a multi lock and teleport in while covered the second he lands or is about to land.
