Demon Armageddon Applications: An In-Depth Discussion

[ClxJames]

We have no thread for an in-depth discussion of this Ultra. A lot of the forum member think this Ultra is worthless in almost all match ups save Cody, Rufus and Balrog but I beg to differ. Although I use Ultra 2 in all my matches now I do realize Ultra 1 is a more realistic choice for the majority of match ups

Regardless, here is where we will discuss tech, uses, combos, etc

Demon Armageddon Applications:
[media=youtube]e1ltNSo2j7U[/media]
[media=youtube]aOEcnEnunA8[/media]

I am currently working on part 3, both the Navy and Hurricane Irene have delayed it

Combos:
All of the combos into Ultra 2 have to end one of three ways

St.hp xx Teleport xx Ultra 2
cr.mp xx Teleport xx Ultra 2
cr.mk xx Teleport xx Ultra 2

So for example -cr.lp -> cr.mp xx Hadouken FADC st.hp xx Teleport xx Ultra 2

Protection Teleports From OS:
One of the best uses of Ultra 2 is to stop people from OSing your Teleports. This in no way means you can teleport for free, but it does make them safer. In addition, you may catch them on autopilot as they OS as you have Ultra 2 stocked, in which case you get a free Ultra

Teleporting Through Fireballs:
This looks gimmicky and unreliable, but I have lost count of the amount of times this has worked, on both moderate players and semi-famous ones (Both Chris Hu and Rico Suave have fallen for this).

The trick is to put yourself at what your opponent will think is a “safe” fireball position. Right outside of where you could jump in and punish the fireball. This gives them the illusion that it is ok to throw one. On reaction to start up frames, teleport in and cancel into Ultra 2 right where they will get hit by the tip of your foot. This means you start Ultra 2 as their arms are still extended from the fireball.

Punishing Traveling Special Moves:
This ranges from Honda’s Headbutt, to Yun’s Ex Lunge Punch. A lot of players will throw these out, planning on their opponent not reacting quickly enough and deciding on blocking it. So they think it’s safe. They are wrong. Instant Teleport xx Ultra 2 will knock them sky high and think twice about using that move to get in

Baiting Reversals:
This is my personal favorite. Almost any player playing a character with a DP is susceptible to this. Players think their DP is safe because they have 2 bars. They are wrong. You cant FADC a DP that doesnt connect. Use the invincibility of the teleport to keep them from being able to FADC, and cancel into Ultra 2 on their recovery

[Laughter_7]

This move should be usable until the final frame of the teleport. Then it would be more viable. Imo, U1 is preferable in most matches because of:

1. Damage.
2. Punishing jump-ins.
3. Punishing focus attacks.

The main advantages of U2 are comboability and the fact that it doesn’t give your opponent much meter on hit. But the damage in combos isn’t that great, especially seen as how it doesn’t build any meter for you and does no stun.

[Rikudou]

It might not build as much meter as a special move, but it doesn’t cost you much either. 400 damage off a meterless combo is no joke.

[Sizar_92]

Comboability isn’t a very good argument for U2. I mean by the time you are able to hitconfirm it, and i’ll be positive and say that you can after a cr.lp, cs,hp tele xx U2, you might as well go for a lk tatsu into sweep or shoryuken if they’re crouching because it’ll scale too much anyway.

[dr4gz0r]

Comboability isn’t a very good argument for U2. I mean by the time you are able to hitconfirm it, and i’ll be positive and say that you can after a cr.lp, cs,hp tele xx U2, you might as well go for a lk tatsu into sweep or shoryuken if they’re crouching because it’ll scale too much anyway.

Well, here’s some numbers:

DF divekick, cr.LP, st.HP xx fireball FADC st.HP xx ashura xx U2 432/500

DF divekick, cr.LP, st.HP xx fireball FADC st.HP xx LK Tatsu > Shoryu 377/585

Damage wise is not that bad, though it’s not an option if you’re going for stun.

The thing is, this is of course with maxed revenge meter. If the revenge meter it’s no full, it’s hardly gonna help due to the huge scaling.

At 50 % revenge meter U2 does ~335, so damage for the above combo would be 382/500, making it essentially (+5 damage but no stun added) worse then landing the actual combo (slightly better if the opponent is crouching, the same combo ending in st.HP xx HP DP would deal 357/575).

Now they said it’d deal +21 damage in v2012, but if that’s damage off a raw teleport xx Ultra, it’s not gonna be noticeable on a longer combo.

Yay for worthless buffs!

[Sizar_92]

Thanks, i was a bit too lazy to go in training mode and go crunch up some numbers myself. I think the damage difference would be even bigger if you went df divekick, cr.lp, st.hp xx ashura xx u2. I’ve never bothered to really learn the cancel so I don’t know how doable that is though.

[dr4gz0r]

Thanks, i was a bit too lazy to go in training mode and go crunch up some numbers myself. I think the damage difference would be even bigger if you went df divekick, cr.lp, st.hp xx ashura xx u2. I’ve never bothered to really learn the cancel so I don’t know how doable that is though.

Well that does 430/310, it’s the same (stun aside which is way lower), you just keep the bars but have less time to confirm (and I think you want all the hitconfim possible for it) the hit.

To bump up the damage you should try not to use cr.LP, the same FADC combo but with divekick > st.HP etc does 488/520. This game is really harsh toward longer combos.

Btw there’s no need to enter training mode, just apply damage scaling. I only go there to see the damage under low health scenarios where the combo scales differently and I can’t be arsed with doing all teh maths lol.

[superlollo]

I don’t even know why people are still debating this. U1 is so much better, except in 4 or 5 matchups (and some of those are debatable anyways)

[ClxJames]

O wait stop the presses. Superlollo has spoken his opinion. We should take it as the absolute truth. Brb closing thread

We are debating it because the Ultra is not nearly as bad as everyone thinks.

[mad4ra]

But not so good to put much time into it - atleast for me

[Rikudou]

Well that does 430/310, it’s the same (stun aside which is way lower), you just keep the bars but have less time to confirm (and I think you want all the hitconfim possible for it) the hit.

To bump up the damage you should try not to use cr.LP, the same FADC combo but with divekick > st.HP etc does 488/520. This game is really harsh toward longer combos.

Btw there’s no need to enter training mode, just apply damage scaling. I only go there to see the damage under low health scenarios where the combo scales differently and I can’t be arsed with doing all teh maths lol.

But that’s just it. A dive kick plus a cr.lp gives more than enough time to hitconfirm and you can get 400+ damage and an untechable knockdown without spending meter. After you land the U2, the opponent is basically in the same position as in a normal throw, so you can continue the mixup. Especially a good option against crouching opponents.

[superlollo]

O wait stop the presses. Superlollo has spoken his opinion. We should take it as the absolute truth. Brb closing thread

We are debating it because the Ultra is not nearly as bad as everyone thinks.

It’s definitely not a BAD ultra. It’s just that U1 is much better for nearly every matchup.

[dr4gz0r]

But that’s just it. A dive kick plus a cr.lp gives more than enough time to hitconfirm and you can get 400+ damage and an untechable knockdown without spending meter. After you land the U2, the opponent is basically in the same position as in a normal throw, so you can continue the mixup. Especially a good option against crouching opponents.

Mmh I don’t know, the motion is pretty tricky, was watching Tokido’s stream the other day and he didn’t punish with st.HP xx U2 even when he could with (relative) ease. It’s also kind of different from the fireball cancel, where with cr.LP you both confirm hit and get some space (fireball it’s still -4 on block, good players try to take advantage of that).

Perhaps I’m just very slow at hitconfirming that, but having 2 bars I think I’ll go with the safe route there, it also adds some stun.

But again: if the revenge meter it’s not full, the reward for comboing U2 is shitty…

[Rikudou]

Mmh I don’t know, the motion is pretty tricky, was watching Tokido’s stream the other day and he didn’t punish with st.HP xx U2 even when he could with (relative) ease. It’s also kind of different from the fireball cancel, where with cr.LP you both confirm hit and get some space (fireball it’s still -4 on block, good players try to take advantage of that).

Perhaps I’m just very slow at hitconfirming that, but having 2 bars I think I’ll go with the safe route there, it also adds some stun.

But again: if the revenge meter it’s not full, the reward for comboing U2 is shitty…

Agreed that the damage with a barely filled ultra is not that impressive, but Imo it’s still the best option against crouchers and in 2012 we will increasingy have to deal with crouching opponents after the palm nerf.

And Tokido is indeed the best person to set as an example for Akuma play, but he’s not perfect. Many times he could easily AA, but he doesn’t and even though his defence is top notch, he eats the mixup and loses the match. Using U2 might be the same: he can and he should, but he doesn’t.