Dee Jay: what am I supposed to do against Dhalsim?

Classic Fighting Games Super Street Fighter II Turbo
1

Okay, this match up has driven me mad for too many years now.
I even used to pick Honda in tournaments mainly because I had absolutely no clue on what I should do against Dhalsim with my Dee Jay.
I have, off course, some other very hard match-ups with my Dee Jay (some of them being theorically good match-ups for me ^^) but in those case, it’s not utterly frustrating because I know why I loose. When Boxer throws a random super into a stupidly mid screen crouching fierce after 80 seconds of perfect zoning, I rage quit but I know why I loose: I’ve been stupid. When T.hawk blocks me in the corner and SPDs me to the death, I feel disgusted but I know why I loosed: bad zoning !
But when Dhalsim pokes me to the death, countering every single moves I do, I just feel like I’m going to explode, take a flight to japan and kick the dude who actually designed that character GRRRRRRR

Please help me ! What the hell a Dee Jay player is supposed to do against Dhalsim ?

2

Watch the japs play and you might pick a couple of things up.It seems like a really tough match.
I’m not 100% certain since i dont play dj but i am sure that part of the strategy would be you throwing out your high-priority normals that will trade with sims limbs.

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3

Thanks for the vids: the second one perfectly shows my problem.
The dee jay player doesn’t know what to do so tries to jump randomly, jack knife randomly, sobat randomly, goes on for random low forwards, low strongs, low roundhouse and… gets punished on everything and zoned to the death looool

4

I don’t know the match that much… but overall I think Dee Jay should be rushing to get in close to mix up - especially tick throws. As a Dhalsim player, I find tick throws after cross ups in particular very difficult against Guile and DJ.

5

Deejay’s cr.fwd, cr.fierce, and neutral j.rh, all do a great job of trading or beating Sim’s limbs at range. Treat the match as if you’re Guile, you gotta learn to stick and move and make yourself a difficult target to hit, and you have to learn when to move in and out of position depending on Sim’s style of play. At the mid-range, a LK sobat is a great way to beat out low attacks, or trade or beat yoga fires if done on reaction. It’s unsafe on block, but worth going for it in order to land the knockdown. Once you have Sim on his back, go for ambiguous crossups, if they hit, go for the combo, if they block, go for MGU ender or cr.fwd ender, since the odds are that Sim is trying to counter throw you. Both attack strings leave you somewhat closer to Sim,

6

Inclusive of what eltrouble said you want to try and knock Sim down or push him back as soon as the round starts. You can use cr.forward to knock him down cleanly when he attacks with slides, cr.strong/fierce, or st.fierce. You only want to go for the crossup when you have a close-range knockdown because Dhalsim can escape AND punish if you jump from a bad range. If you’re unable to get close-range knockdowns, use the forward or roundhouse dread kicks to push Dhalsim into the corner, and then pressure him with cr.roundhouse, st.short (good vs. slides), and cr.strong (against his slides or db.forward/strong).

Here are a couple points to remember:

vs. Yoga Fire outside of DJ’s cr.roundhouse range – You can either trade by using short dread kick, do a kara-short upkick (charge down 2 sec, cr.roundhouse – up + short), or attempt to walk a bit and hit Sim’s head with st.fierce or st.roundhouse which is very risky. Also, if the Dhalsim likes to do close-range db.forward/roundhouse into yoga fire, you can always short or forward up kick (or super) before the yoga fire reaches you.

vs. Noogie Traps – Machine gun upper if you have the charge; otherwise, you can try to counter throw since most Dhalsims attempt to noogie within DJ’s throw range. Forward and roundhouse dread kicks will work as well, but it is entirely dependent on the Sim’s timing; you can be grabbed out of them if he does the noogie late. Finally, any up kick or super will beat the throw attempt but you better be sure about it and have the charge after mashing against the initial noogie.

vs. Drills – St.strong will beat any drill at any range as long as you time it properly. Any version of the up kicks will suffice as well.

vs. Jumping Normals – St.fierce will beat Dhalsim’s air normals as long as you are in front of them. If you’re under them you’re likely in range to punish whether or not they hit, but in the case that you aren’t within punish range you’ll want to use st.strong a little bit ahead of time to guarantee a clean hit.

vs. Yoga Flame – You can hit Dhalsim’s yoga flame with either a short dread kick or well-timed max out. The short dread kick must be done slightly in advance of the yoga flame, and the max out must be sent just before the flame dissipates. A super doesn’t have to worry about any of that though :D.

vs. Dhalsim on Wakeup – DJ’s crossup is more effective on Dhalsim than any other character. Take advantage of this by aiming either at the back of his head (non-crossup) or the back of his neck (crossup). You should be hit-confirming cr.jabx2 into machine gun upper, cr.jabx2, st.strong – roundhouse dread kicks, or cr.jab, cr.fierce into machine gun upper or up kicks (with super available). If he blocks the crossup, you’ll want to use jabx2 as a low (cr.forward)/throw mixup, or you can use a block string into forward/roundhouse dread kicks if you need to put Dhalsim in a certain area of the screen.

Let me know if this helped!

7

St. strong vs some drills can be difficult to time, depending on range. If you’re not sure, far st. jab is easier to time and reaches out farther. I think just about everybody has a jab or some kind of standing normal that beats Sim drills.

It’s a shitty matchup, though. You pretty much get the lead and sit on it, Guile style. Or if they’re not good at blocking/zoning, cross-ups all day. A smart sim won’t give you opportunities to trade in your favor or normals to stuff.

8

Thanks for the hints !
My problem was really the use of the footsies then :), now everything seems clearer :slight_smile:
One more question: for the noogie traps, which MU am I supposed to use ? Jab fierce or strong ?

9

There’s a certain method you can do in order to get 4+ hits with the MGU. It’s not really about using the correct ‘version’, and more about learning the timing of the MGU inputs in order to maximize the number of hits you get. Here’s one method of doing it.

[media=youtube]Lo7K-VXtGO0[/media]

There’s text explanation in the description if you want to look up more information.

10

You’ll want to use the Jab version due to its faster startup compared to the other versions.

Keep in mind that this is after blocking a slide or whatever tick they use to setup the next noogie. MGU will lose to low hitting attacks or attacks that hit DJ in that award-winning grill of his.

Alriiight!

11

I asked Jason Cole this exact question at Seasons Beatings a copal of years ago. His answer was nothing much, it’s a really bad match up. His advice was pick your spots when to move in, stay grounded. Back off at the start of the round and build some meter and look for the knock down. All advice which was already given here.

From what I found playing Roy Bisel you will only get one maybe two chances in a round to win, you have to maximize your knock down options and mix-ups. If you don’t kill him he will escape and you will lose. Patience is key in this match, don’t panic and don’t get pushed in the corner because that’s death. I found fighting Sim at mid screen (When I say mid screen I mean in the middle of the stage.) works the best for me because I can move in and out of his range. Also don’t go for to many tick-throws as Sims grab range is much better than yours.

12

But MGU is throwable the whole time! RH upkicks and Short sobat seem better options.

13

Okay so today, went to the local arcade game center to have some ST with friends including a strong dhalsim and…
It was miraculous :slight_smile: Of course, I still had a really hard time winning but what pleasure being able to resist long enough to all the footsies so you can hope going for one touch of death combo :slight_smile:
I still have crazy hard times when dhalsim starts to switch to tick > throw game (I wasn’t able to throw a single MGU in those setups, need to train a bit on this) but I switched from “this match-up is disgusting me from using my favourite character” to “this match up is really hard but when I win, it feels so GOOD” :slight_smile:
Thousand thanks to MuffinMan :slight_smile:
PS: the standing fierce on the drills is hard timing-wise, but I’m feeling like it’s a very important part of the matchup.

14

Good to hear! If you can’t time the standing fierce, you can also try just spamming jab which should be easier. Jabbing rapidly when you’re not trying to counter an attack also acts as a disincentive / warning so sims are less inclined to drill.

15

OSBR already said this earlier. If you’re trying to beat tick throws with MGU, you’re gonna get thrown every single time. MGU doesn’t work against throws because it’s throwable and it can be hit by slides too. So it’s completely useless against any part of the tick throw setup (it’s only useful against high attacks, safejumps and crossups).

Instead use Upkicks or Dread Kicks to beat tick throws, they are at least unthrowable during startup (while the MGU is not). Reversal Upkick will whiff against a meaty slide, but if you block the slide reversal Upkick will beat the throw attempt. Reversal Dread Kick will beat a meaty slide and if you block the slide it will beat the throw attempt too. Reversal throw will also work if you’re in range or if you’ve lost charge. One thing is clear: MGU is useless against tick throws cuz it’s throwable.

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