Dee Jay Knock Down Pressure Help Pls!

[The_4th_Letter]

I think my biggest achilles heel while using DJ is the ability to maintain pressure once I get a throw or a knockdown. When I screw up a knockdown or get reversal mash dp’ed it pretty much spells my end.

On throw, what are my options?

I usually eat frames with crouch mp (for timing) then either:
[LIST]
[]Cross up MK (some times I get dp’ed or miss and thrown) into combo
[]Fake Cross up MK (this has helped me a bit as everyone expects the cross up)
[*]Dash forward throw
[/LIST]

When it comes to getting a knockdown with C. MK I’m at a loss w/ my timing and spacing to fake cross up or cross up properly. Sometimes I’ll wiff and get punished w/ throws or dp’ed.

sigh anybody have a routine they don’t mind sharing so I have something to build on?

I love playing Dee Jay but it’s such a pain sometime. LOL.

[Ribxus]

Safe jump.

If you want to crossup, j.mk as usual for the safe jump.
If you don’t want to crossup, use j.lk for the safe jump (super long active frames… use it early if you want to… all you need to time is when you jump. No so much when to press the lk).

And really. Safe jumping is the important thing to retain here. I’ve heard people saying several times that certain characters can’t be jumped on, on wake up. Well, every single one of them is. All you need to know is the startup frames on their reversals.

Also, get used to only doing safe jumps on untechable knockdowns that give you enough time to pull off a safe jump (you rather land early and whiff your jumping attack, than pull that attack off, and be too late, eating an SRK).
SRK has 2 frames for startup, active on the 3rd (3 frames startup as people call it). You have to land in 2 frames after using your Jumping attack and BE BLOCKING. Not an easy task, but that’s what training mode is for.

To practise it, grab ryu on the 1P side, grab deejay on the 2P side.
Record deejay doing his close throw on ryu (so ryu lands closest to him), or c.mk sweep him. Then try a safe jump on him (remember to keep your block ready during the jump).
To make sure you did it well, put it on playback, let Deejay sweep/throw you, and then do a reversal shoryuken with ryu. If you did it right, deejay’s attack will whiff through the first 2 frames of the shoryuken (invencibility) and he’ll land crouch blocking. Free punish.

Shoryukens are the worst case scenario. After you record a successful safe jump, you’re free to pick different 1P characters and still keep 2P Deejay on playback (it’ll be saved as long as you don’t leave training mode other than to choose different characters).
Try it on “supposedly impossible to jump on characters”. Like Gief using KKK Lariet, or Blanka using LP electricity (smallest startup-> 4 frames, active on 5th). It’ll stuff them.

Against most characters it’s not worth risking a c.lk or c.lp after a safe jump. If it’s blocked, they can reversal you, and a character like gief can easily SPD you. Just use safe jumps as a kind of mixup. Most of the time, people will try to reversal you. If they’re not reversal happy in the first place, or if they figure out that you’re doing some “Magical Jump that apparentely can’t get hit”, then you may start doing some followups. I prefer to use safe jumps, delay, and try a throw, or do a backdash.

Also, read their EX meter.
Certain characters are free on wakeup because after a safe jump, you can still do a followup on block and not be reversal’d (specially since safe jumps are so LATE, that the blockstun itself allows jabs and shorts to followup without a reversal breaking in). Rufus is free without EX meter. So is Dictator if you can OS or simply read his Teleport. So is Zangief (I wouldn’t risk it, just in case you mistime the safe jump, it whiffs, and you land without blockstun on him).

Long story short, there is no “safe” mixup routine after a knockdown. It’s very character specific. On some characters, it’s pretty free to just safe jump, c.short > throw, or hit confirm it into another sweep (or EX machine gun, dash ultra2). Against others, not so much. Keep it safe.

[Pattbird]

Well, Dee Jay has many options after a knockdown, I’ll tell you the ones that work best for me.

j.mk crossup, non-crossup, on hit follow up with bnb like c.lp c.lp c.lp c.mk or c.lp c.lp c.mp sobat, on block c.lp c.lp tick throw for example or just wait to bait a reversal
j.hp is a good tool because it might look like you are going to cross up with j.mk but you land in front of them with j.hp.
Meaty c.mk for another knockdown or meaty c.lk into air slasher or mgu.
Meaty air slashers into slide or c.mk or whatever.
Of course, Knee shot, since it alters your jumping arc and is a great fake if you do a jump that would normally crossup.
If your opponent is reversal happy fake a crossup or normal jump in by making it empty, so you can block their reversal and punish.

Be sure to mix your stuff up and keep them guessing. I don’t have problems keeping pressure up with DJ, my problem is defense, but hey that’s fundamental and nothing character specific.

One word on safe jumps: It works great on characters who have reversals with 5 frames+ but because there is something called tripguard, you can’t block for i think three frames after performing an aerial attack and land. This way Ryu’s lp shoryu is almost not safe jumpable, if at all. One thing you have to be comfortable with is the time at which you have to jump if you’re going for a jump-in. Blankas who spam electricity on wakeup will suffer if you have the right timing, but against characters with a reversal that has invulnerability you often end up trading.
I’m not good at safe jumping though, so if anyone has advice on that, feel free to share.

[Ribxus]

Well, Dee Jay has many options after a knockdown, I’ll tell you the ones that work best for me.

j.mk crossup, non-crossup, on hit follow up with bnb like c.lp c.lp c.lp c.mk or c.lp c.lp c.mp sobat, on block c.lp c.lp tick throw for example or just wait to bait a reversal
j.hp is a good tool because it might look like you are going to cross up with j.mk but you land in front of them with j.hp.
Meaty c.mk for another knockdown or meaty c.lk into air slasher or mgu.
Meaty air slashers into slide or c.mk or whatever.
Of course, Knee shot, since it alters your jumping arc and is a great fake if you do a jump that would normally crossup.
If your opponent is reversal happy fake a crossup or normal jump in by making it empty, so you can block their reversal and punish.

Be sure to mix your stuff up and keep them guessing. I don’t have problems keeping pressure up with DJ, my problem is defense, but hey that’s fundamental and nothing character specific.

One word on safe jumps: It works great on characters who have reversals with 5 frames+ but because there is something called tripguard, you can’t block for i think three frames after performing an aerial attack and land. This way Ryu’s lp shoryu is almost not safe jumpable, if at all. One thing you have to be comfortable with is the time at which you have to jump if you’re going for a jump-in. Blankas who spam electricity on wakeup will suffer if you have the right timing, but against characters with a reversal that has invulnerability you often end up trading.
I’m not good at safe jumping though, so if anyone has advice on that, feel free to share.

Well, you actually can do safe jumps on invulnerable moves (your attack whiffs, and you end up blocking, as I mentioned). And you can do it on srks too. Got videos of it.

[Da_Knut]

After a throw, DJ can jump in on all Shotos except Gouken and Akuma w/ super or ultra 1. He can also jump in on Cammy , Fei Long, and Adon ( timing is strict on Adon because he wakes up so freaking fast and Cammy’s and Fei Long’s U2 can be a bitch.) You basically have to train your opponent. You need to let them know that you can stuff there dp and that they need to stop mashing.

After a throw, you move back just a little tad bit. When your opponent is about to get up ,you jump foward and press mk when you are almost directly over their head. It’s an very ambiguous cross up and if you barely miss the timing, you will get DPed.The timing is very strict, but once you get the timing down, you will stuff DP’s every single time. Once your opponent know that you can stuff their DP’s then you can play mind games ( fake cross ups, knee shots, empty jumps etc.) Sometimes for whatever reason, Sagat and Ryu DP will whiff and you will miss them completely. You can still cr.mk or slide under them before they recover. Sometimes when you stuff a Dp, your opponent becomes airborne for a split second. You can cross back under them and start a combo. So far it confused my opponents every single time.

[Ribxus]

1- You can jump on every shoto and/or grappler. Safe jumps are safe for a reason. What can gouken do? That crappy counter? Empty jump, throw. It’s a jump, and I bait that all the time. Akuma’s Ultra has a fat startup. Double that of a shoryuken. Easily safe jumpable. 0 frame reversals? Well, an Akuma might be able to catch you because the super will move him forward. What happens is this: you do the jump, do a jumping attack 2 frames before landing, and they’re supposed to be getting up at that exact same time. If they pulled off the move as a reversal, it’ll miss (it’ll activate while you’re still in the air).

If it’s Akuma’s super and done as a reversal, it’ll move him forward, and catch you because even though you safe jumped, you need 4 frames to jump, and the first one is always throwable by Zangief’s U1, or any other same startup moves (1 freeze+0 startup). So basically, if you jump in, whether you do an attack or not, and land right next to an opponent, you have 4 frames where you can do any attack/special, and block, but you can’t jump, nor move, etc (you can also tech, mind you). That means the only way to avoid eating a 0 startup throw is to use a reversal move that’ll put you in an unthrowable state on the 1st frame. But this is so frame specific and hard to pull off, that the advice is basically: don’t safe jump in those situations (Zangief with ultra, or Akuma with super).

2- You gave him advice on general jumping, not safe jumps. That crossup is not ambiguous (ken’s j.fierce is, for example). It just has a big hitbox, and that’s why it can stuff shoryukens on rare cases. Most of the time, by the time you’re on the other side, the shoryuken will auto-correct, and you’ll eat it. The only move that’s almost perfectly safe vs shoryukens is a well timed crossup LK tatsu from Akuma. It’ll beat them very often.

Deejay isn’t high tier even though he seems great for that simple reason: he has no safe way to cause massive pressure. Good players find holes in just a few seconds. And they know flaws very well. Right now, the one flaw you can easily spot on a character like Deejay, is that he lacks an overhead (which gives Guile a wee bit more mixup options in the corner, or on upclose blocked SBs), and his options after knockdown are never safe. A rufus will always be able to run away from you with an EX bar, just like several other characters. The examples I gave are just simple ways of catching some characters without EX with a crossup for an easy combo, or to simply land and defend, without suffering the consequences of a reversal but still attempting the crossup (with no followups, to avoid damage from said reversal).

[Da_Knut]

1- You can jump on every shoto and/or grappler. Safe jumps are safe for a reason. What can gouken do? That crappy counter? Empty jump, throw. It’s a jump, and I bait that all the time. Akuma’s Ultra has a fat startup. Double that of a shoryuken. Easily safe jumpable. 0 frame reversals? Well, an Akuma might be able to catch you because the super will move him forward. What happens is this: you do the jump, do a jumping attack 2 frames before landing, and they’re supposed to be getting up at that exact same time. If they pulled off the move as a reversal, it’ll miss (it’ll activate while you’re still in the air).

If it’s Akuma’s super and done as a reversal, it’ll move him forward, and catch you because even though you safe jumped, you need 4 frames to jump, and the first one is always throwable by Zangief’s U1, or any other same startup moves (1 freeze+0 startup). So basically, if you jump in, whether you do an attack or not, and land right next to an opponent, you have 4 frames where you can do any attack/special, and block, but you can’t jump, nor move, etc (you can also tech, mind you). That means the only way to avoid eating a 0 startup throw is to use a reversal move that’ll put you in an unthrowable state on the 1st frame. But this is so frame specific and hard to pull off, that the advice is basically: don’t safe jump in those situations (Zangief with ultra, or Akuma with super).

2- You gave him advice on general jumping, not safe jumps. That crossup is not ambiguous (ken’s j.fierce is, for example). It just has a big hitbox, and that’s why it can stuff shoryukens on rare cases. Most of the time, by the time you’re on the other side, the shoryuken will auto-correct, and you’ll eat it. The only move that’s almost perfectly safe vs shoryukens is a well timed crossup LK tatsu from Akuma. It’ll beat them very often.

.

I’m not a master of frame knowledge but I speak from training room practice and thousands of matches. this is from experience. The jump in timing is very strict, but safe. And it is ambiguous because it’s not always a cross up… depending when I input the Mk or if I choose to knee shot.

Akuma’s u1 can be dangerous because some people got mad buffer skills. If they block your jump in and you attempt to input another attack after you land, you will get demoned.

And for Gouken… you are speaking the obvious. I was just stating that the jump in can be dangerous. Especially if they have super.

And why would you safe jump zangief lol? At the moment I’m talking about shotos. I will get to other characters later

[Ribxus]

I’m not a master of frame knowledge but I speak from training room practice and thousands of matches. this is from experience. The jump in timing is very strict, but safe. And it is ambiguous because it’s not always a cross up… depending when I input the Mk or if I choose to knee shot.

Akuma’s u1 can be dangerous because some people got mad buffer skills. If they block your jump in and you attempt to input another attack after you land, you will get demoned.

And for Gouken… you are speaking the obvious. I was just stating that the jump in can be dangerous. Especially if they have super.

And why would you safe jump zangief lol? At the moment I’m talking about shotos. I will get to other characters later

I explained why you shouldn’t input anything after a safe jump against several characters. So the whole “vs skilled players, you can get demoned” is moot. Even a shoryuken would screw you. No need to go as far as mentioning ultras or supers.

Gouken is an obvious example. But since you didn’t explain properly, I didn’t guess. And no one saves super with Gouken to pop off on a crossup/safe jump. Unless they’re scrubs, or a CPU with obvious inhuman reflexes. Other characters are a different story, but it’s very rare that something will catch you off of a safe jump, apart from shoryukens online, and a Zangief doing an Ultra1 on wakeup as soon as you land.

You should safe jump zangief. Nothing is 100% safe. The only way they’ll hit you with a 360 or 720 when you safe jump, is if they’re always mashing it on every jump in you do. If they do it to early, they miss. Too late, they miss. Trust me… Most Zangiefs pop it when you’re ON THE GROUND, trying a completely unsafe meaty like Ryu’s overhead. They don’t attempt that when you safe jump them. They might, but it’s very rare if they’re good players. It’s like a 10% chance they’ll hit it. You’ll see scrubs online doing it very often though. But in those situations, all you have to do is wait until they get up, and jump right before the last frame of their standing up animation. But we’re not talking about scrubs.

And mate, an ambiguous crossup is not something that “might crossup or not”. It’s a move where you can actually land in front of your opponent and have hit him on the other side and vice-versa. Tricky hitboxes do that. That’s why ambiguous crossups are never ambiguous on every character. Ken’s J.fierce is ambiguous on Ryu because you can actually jump on him, land behind him, and hit him on the front. That’s an ambiguous crossup.

What an ambiguous crossup isn’t: a jumping attack that will either hit in front, or the back. That’s a normal crossup. Time it after passing the opponent-> crossup. Time it before-> normal jumping attack on the front.

Glad I could clarify that.

[Xiahou_Dun]

And mate, an ambiguous crossup is not something that “might crossup or not”. It’s a move where you can actually land in front of your opponent and have hit him on the other side and vice-versa. Tricky hitboxes do that. That’s why ambiguous crossups are never ambiguous on every character. Ken’s J.fierce is ambiguous on Ryu because you can actually jump on him, land behind him, and hit him on the front. That’s an ambiguous crossup.

What an ambiguous crossup isn’t: a jumping attack that will either hit in front, or the back. That’s a normal crossup. Time it after passing the opponent-> crossup. Time it before-> normal jumping attack on the front.

Ambiguous
*
of doubtful or uncertain nature; difficult to comprehend, distinguish, or classify: a rock of ambiguous character.

lacking clearness or definiteness; obscure; indistinct: an ambiguous shape; an ambiguous future*

Any crossup that is ambiguous; see above definition, is an ambiguous crossup. There’s no technical thing you can pin down clearly and definitely and say “if you land in front but hit behind this is an ambiguous crossup but if it doesn’t it isn’t”.

[No_Cigar]

After a throw, you move back just a little tad bit. When your opponent is about to get up ,you jump foward and press mk when you are almost directly over their head. It’s an very ambiguous cross up and if you barely miss the timing, you will get DPed.The timing is very strict, but once you get the timing down, you will stuff DP’s every single time.

So do you do it before or after you pass over them. Or just try and time it while ur directly over them. A little more explanation plz

[Da_Knut]

I explained why you shouldn’t input anything after a safe jump against several characters. So the whole “vs skilled players, you can get demoned” is moot. Even a shoryuken would screw you. No need to go as far as mentioning ultras or supers.

Gouken is an obvious example. But since you didn’t explain properly, I didn’t guess. And no one saves super with Gouken to pop off on a crossup/safe jump. Unless they’re scrubs, or a CPU with obvious inhuman reflexes. Other characters are a different story, but it’s very rare that something will catch you off of a safe jump, apart from shoryukens online, and a Zangief doing an Ultra1 on wakeup as soon as you land.

You should safe jump zangief. Nothing is 100% safe. The only way they’ll hit you with a 360 or 720 when you safe jump, is if they’re always mashing it on every jump in you do. If they do it to early, they miss. Too late, they miss. Trust me… Most Zangiefs pop it when you’re ON THE GROUND, trying a completely unsafe meaty like Ryu’s overhead. They don’t attempt that when you safe jump them. They might, but it’s very rare if they’re good players. It’s like a 10% chance they’ll hit it. You’ll see scrubs online doing it very often though. But in those situations, all you have to do is wait until they get up, and jump right before the last frame of their standing up animation. But we’re not talking about scrubs.

And mate, an ambiguous crossup is not something that “might crossup or not”. It’s a move where you can actually land in front of your opponent and have hit him on the other side and vice-versa. Tricky hitboxes do that. That’s why ambiguous crossups are never ambiguous on every character. Ken’s J.fierce is ambiguous on Ryu because you can actually jump on him, land behind him, and hit him on the front. That’s an ambiguous crossup.

What an ambiguous crossup isn’t: a jumping attack that will either hit in front, or the back. That’s a normal crossup. Time it after passing the opponent-> crossup. Time it before-> normal jumping attack on the front.

Glad I could clarify that.

Be easy breh. It seems that the OP had a problem with applying pressure after untechable knockdowns. There is a lot of dp mashing, crouch teching whores and that shit can be frustrating. That was my roadblock at one point and now I’m over that. I was giving him information on safe jump ins and all you are doing is bashing every thing I say. From my experience, safe jumping is important because it keeps your opponent honest and it opens up DJ’s vortex. If your opponent can’t respect your jump ins then DJ is limited. I didn’t mention empty jump, empty cross ups etc. because that has already been discussed by the OP and other posters. There is no point beating a dead horse. I chose to talk about safe jump ins because noone has brought it up and I thought it was too important to leave out

[Da_Knut]

So do you do it before or after you pass over them. Or just try and time it while ur directly over them. A little more explanation plz

It’s hard to explain. Man I need a camera lol. I press Mk right before I’m over their head. It should cross up. If you input fp or a knee shot… it won’t cross up

[threi]

you want to hit ryu’s head with the kneecap of deejay’s right leg in the pic. Do it so that ryu’s rising fist will be behind deejay.

hitboxes mang

[No_Cigar]

Alright I got it, I’ve done it lots of times too, but against Ryu sometimes I just jump early and crouch tech to bait dp or w/e, for fear of getting Reversaled. But I guess I can just safe jump him too. Does it work if he auto corrects?

[Da_Knut]

Alright I got it, I’ve done it lots of times too, but against Ryu sometimes I just jump early and crouch tech to bait dp or w/e, for fear of getting Reversaled. But I guess I can just safe jump him too. Does it work if he auto corrects?

It won’t auto correct. The worse case scenario is that it gets stuff and he juggles in the air for a split second. You can’t hit Ryu in this state but you have an option to continue with a string when he lands, cross under him or dash away. Sometimes I input a random ex mgu and it usually hits.

[The_4th_Letter]

I see what was being said about not pushing buttons after landing a cross up MK. Every time I tried to combo after I got panic buttoned and lost momentum. Also thank you to mind fucking me on what an ambiguous cross up is. Now I need video to clarify. =0\

[Ribxus]

I see what was being said about not pushing buttons after landing a cross up MK. Every time I tried to combo after I got panic buttoned and lost momentum. Also thank you to mind fucking me on what an ambiguous cross up is. Now I need video to clarify. =0\

Ignore the “drama” on me actually correcting a poster (correcting posters on the internets is regarded as bashing, not constructive feedback).

An ambiguous crossup is exactly what I mentioned. To be honest, you can just ignore it. It’s not relevant for the case. Keep doing what you’re doing, and safe jump. Just remember to pay attention to EX meter on certain characters, and don’t overdo it on shotos (empty jumping early and blocking crouched works wonders… try a late tech to avoid getting thrown when they get up).