so where do counters fit into that triangle i don’t get it
If counters do no damage, you?re not at a ridiculously high risk though?.. And I obviously didn?t intend for it to be so slow that it means your opponent will get a free counter either. Just slow certain moves down, but still make them fast enough to create some kind of mix-up.
And I know you said you won?t respond to questions, but could you answer me this and I promise I?ll leave you alone with the questions?. You said if the parries have no damage properties then grabs become more powerful?. If Tecmo just made grabs tech?able the problem is solved right?
As a response (no more questions) to the rest of your post?.
I agree that you can always guess and win rounds in other games?. Random DP FADC Ultra or whatever. The difference that I see is that a DP won?t take 35%+ health alone?. You need to gain and expend meter to use it. And take 3s for example. Despite the parry system being totally different, you?ll still probably need meter to dish out major damage, not to mention you still have to hit confirm into whatever after you parry. With DOA4 though, it?s like every person and character can just parry and get his/her 35%+ damage with no pre-requisites at all. So the guesswork in DOA =/= Guesswork in SF4 or whatever game.
I don?t know much about DOA, but don?t confuse that with not knowing anything about other fighting games. I?m sure anyone who plays DOA competitively could beat me in it?. But don?t relate that to other games that you?ve never seen me or someone else play.
And I?m only asking these questions / making suggestions on what Tecmo should do with DOA5 mechanics because I am interested in the game. Yet when I ask a question about what you or some other DOA player thinks (about changing the mechanics), it is counted as ?common bias? and I?m grouped along with others as people who you say, ?don?t even play fighting games?? I?m not gonna waste my time posting if I hate DOA or have a bias against it. I enjoyed playing DOA 2 and 4, I just felt there were some things that it could improve on in the mechanics department.
All I know is that DOA Ultimate 2 is best. 
Was that playable on 360?
I always liked DOA to be honest. I played them all. Not competitively cuz no one in my area (Racine, Milwaukee, Chicago) wanted to play. Well maybe except Just Ownin lolz.
I hope DOA5 is real and we get some info soon.
I’m sure the series/game can’t get any worse…can it? 
Just Ownin lmao!
“Just Ownin. Just Ownin…Are you gonna be at D.I.D? If you don’t make it, I wanna play you in Tekken 5 for 100 bucks. If you don’t come, then SHUT THE FUCK UP!”
Counters get a damage boost depending on how well they’re timed against an attack, throws get a damage boost when used against counters, and attacks get more stun and damage when used against throws.
what a liar hahaha
so its a square
Of course. Given the types of beasts that 2D and 3D fighters are, such differences in offensive and defensive options would widly differ, space control (half/full-circular moves - 3D, projectiles & other shenanigans -2D), footsies, yomi, all that. The only other 2D game off the top of my head with options like or similar to Mahvel would be Guilty Gear. I’m no expert in any of those and I won’t claim to be, but I’m just speaking from experience and observation.
My remark was more directed on how the general cosensus of “fighting gamers” only play SF IV and think it’s better than other games without even knowing about them and thinking every game needs to emulate SF IV in some way if not rip it off completely, regardless of whether it’s 2d or 3D. I honestly wasn’t expecting a response like this to my post, but hey, never hurts. Thank you. :bgrin:
That argument died the moment you could get more bounce, sexy outfits, huge tits and overall fan-service in SC4 (SC even has ass jiggle) than DOA4.
Guarding is the safer, more practical alternative to countering when you’re not in hit stun, so it’s in the same part of the triangle. You aren’t awarded any damage for blocking, obviously (though a good amount of moves are extremely unsafe), and throws don’t get a damage boost against a blocking opponent.
SCIV sucks so I don’t see what the problem is.
SRK FADC ultra is safe. Also for the characters that have it. It really isn’t an issue to get the meter necessary required to pull it off. For sagat now in SSFIV its a little bit harder because tiger knee traps aren’t as feasible cause it needs a lot more spacing than before, and because of the changes on the tiger knee frame data (being more minus on block). The fact that standing short from max range no longer can be cancelled into a special makes it just a little bit harder, but he is still able to get the meter from zoning properly with fireballs.
Putting a counter on the screen isn’t safe and it has a whiff animation and you also have to perform the correct hit level to get the damage. The way you guys talk about counters is that one counter covers all hit levels.
If Tecmo made counters do no damage and made all throws techable, DOA will be just like another basic 3D fighting game. It would be just like Tekken. 7thFonon I know you are a Tekken player. Why do you want DOA to be just like it. DOA is not Tekken.
I know what you are saying about parries in 3s. However in 3S you can’t punish a parry besides throwing someone and throwing doesn’t have a damage modifier like it does in doa, Also Parries can cover a huge amount of attacks in the game besides overhead where you have to stand up and parry, however a lot of the attacks in the game can be low parried. There also isn’t any kind of whiff animation to know if anyone is parrying either.
DOA’s Counter has a whiff animation so if you mess up you can get punished ESPECIALLY if you are predictable. I remember in 3S how justin told me jumping in on someone there is really nothing bad about it in 3S cause you can just keep parrying while you are in the air in case someone tries to reversal or anti air you meaning there really isn’t a risk because of parry when jumping in.
Seriously thats a good thing? A mechanic with no kind of risk?
Also if all throws are breakable then counters could be abused to change the momentum of the match since all it nets is frame advantage and a frame mixup. Then since all Attacks when countered isn’t a real risk because all they get is frame advantage then it will be a game about mid/low mixups all day. Which is boring. There isn’t anything in the game that is interesting. Breaking defense will just be the very basic mid/low mixup.
And yea you could use the VF mechanic on breaking throws but then the game is Virtua Fighter.
I’m sorry im not in favor for making one game like another game. Gaming is about innovation not copy catting. DOA did enough taking VF’s button layout not trying to take anymore.
That’s not entirely true. To my understanding there is a window between parry attempts where you can’t parry so you can’t just spam forward during your whole jump arc. Don’t mean to go off on a tangent, just saying…
Justin was showing me other wise but he may be wrong as well. What I am saying though and my point is there isn’t a whiff animation for parries like there are for holds.
counters in doa are fine, the only problem is the window for the active/recovery frames. Fix that and tweak the stun system, and the game is great.
Wow, people still bashing DOA? You know, I’m not a high level player of the game (there goes my credibility). But I know enough about the game through casual play to know it’s not as masher friendly as you all claim it to be. I may not understand the most inner working mechanics, but I do know that you have multiple options for offense and defense other than just trying to counter everything. Like many of you said before, the best way to improve the game would be to lower the damage of counters or make the window smaller. I’m thinking at least VF counter window smaller. Have you ever tried to counter anything with Pai, Akira or Aoi? Damn near impossible. If however you do manage to land a counter, it hurts like hell in that game to.
No rewards for hit strings? Sure there are. But, how often have you seen someone in the UFC in a flurry and they whip out an arm bar or some other crazy grappling technique? That’s what happens in DOA. Sure it’s a bit unrealistic, but if it works in reality, then it should be able to work in a game also. There is a lot of boasting about VF here. Does PPPK in VF work? Hell no it doesn’t. Does that mean VF sucks? The counter keeps things moving in DOA. People that play DOA use footsies and try to open up juggle/stun and crumple stun opportunities in DOA just like they do in VF. We all know that in VF and TK to a lesser extent that the juggle is everything. The counter in DOA breaks up the monotony. There are different levels of countering, those being for high, medium and low attacks. A whiffed counter has a huge window for punishment, so that huge chunk of damage that you were counting on from the counter can back fire into a nasty juggle for just as much damage. I don’t know who said just throwing out counters like an idiot is safe. It’s a huge gamble especially if you don’t know the level I’m attacking at. The only way a lot of countering will work for you is if you know my character and quite possibly my most damaging combos. If this is the case, then I need to switch things up. Unlike other fighting games, DOA doesn’t punish you with moves that are less effective. A move with a high frame rate could surprise the shit out of you if your not expecting it. Not only that, but attacks are pretty damn fast in this game. So while your waiting to counter a specific part of my bnb combo, I’ll throw out something you wouldn’t expect in a million years that attacks at a different height. The only time it’s safe to counter is when you “KNOW” exactly what’s coming. Of course that’s hard to know because like it was mentioned before, there isn’t much of a hit confirmation system in this game. Hit confirmation keeps you from doing something stupid. It also makes you predictable but it does keep you safe. In DOA, your hit confirmation is in a juggle, just like all other 3D fighters.
You can leave gaps in your hit strings to psych the other opponent out. There aren’t many people whose minds are quick enough to attack in the middle of an attack string if they are already blocking. So when you P-P and they throw out a counter to try and catch you, then you throw them or juggle them. You’ve got to mix it up, because if you throw out mid level attacks all day, your going to get the shit countered out of you… all day. Now with the low parrying in TK6, it’s almost impossible to use low attacks anymore for fear of a bound to juggle. So now all players do is look for fast attacks with better frames into a juggle with the occasional throw. Unless a character has uber low attacks, they don’t get done very often. This is of course with the exception of getting that last crucial hit.
Look at it this way, if DOA is such a masher friendly game. Then any top fighting game player should be able to take to it with ease and never lose simply because it’s such an easy game to play. The game has depth, just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it’s not there.
oh yeah i gotta chime in with my 2 cents on the counters… they activate too fast and have a large window of trip, you basically need no foresight to succeed in with counters… i’ve certainly thought they shouldn’t be usable on the recieving end of a COMBO… since combo implies that it is an uninterruptable string or combination of attacks…
but i like the throw system all except for the way you reverse stronger throws… you have to find out what throw it was and then press the corresponding direction (depending on the direction used in the throw) with trying to reversal… if it were more simple and solid like Tekken’s it would be a little better imo
Why do people have to bash one game to make another look better or to make it look bad. You don’t here me saying SVC chaos is a bad game now do you Tech. I happen to like SCIV and although its not the best of SC games its still a tourney worthy fighter despite its flaws.
Not necessarily. In DoA4 there were 5 possible counters. Just trying to mash out a counter at random means you had an 80% chance of eating counter hits left and right.
I do agree that the windows were too long though.