Stop playing dumb. That can be an excuse for anything. I like to play Clay Fighter because I like it. I like CvS over CvS2 because I like it. SFII CE over ST or HF because I like it. Sorry to go slippery slope but you know exactly what I meant when I said that.
Was wondering if you could link these posts about me saying I stopped with DOA2. No? Than shut the fuck up. I’ve played every DOA except for those Volleyball games if you count them, own Saturn version, still have my DC version and still own DOA3/U1/U2 along with my original Xbox. So much for that.
Dunno why you are so bent on trying to deny DOA started off lifting a lot (and still does, down to control scheme punch, kick, hold (guard), throw being the same, canned strings, attacks always beat throws, etc) from VF. Get over it, its true and it happened. Itagaki continued to speak of his respect for the VF franchise even after the system started to diverge more from VF’s format. Never said it doesn’t have depth. Its system is still similar to VF’s. Whether you like it or not, VF gets right what DOA does not. Its like you people think just because you play a game that suddenly changes developer intent, magically.
I like DOA…for casuals. Its fun, never said it wasn’t. But take its flawed mechanics over VF/Tekken? No, not unless the team starts making some changes.
So can VF. So can Tekken. And any other multitude of games. ST and VH are high damage and generally short rounds. Don’t act like your game is special and that excuses its problems.
Um no. It fits perfectly into this discussion. Vf is touted as being the best, yet it is hardly played. The very fact of the matter is all about preference and what you enjoy to play. MVC2 is broken as fuck, yet is was played in the hundreds if not the thousands.
Strawman much. No one said any such thing. I was referring to you calling Doa VF lite. Having similar mechanics do not make one the lesser of the two. With that said, doa still play nothing like Vf. Vf gets nothing right concerning Doa, because doa is not trying to be Vf. Thinking this is a fallacy on your part…which makes perfect sense to why you continue to call it Vf lite.
Flawed would be something that do not work with what is intended. Just because you do not favor a specific feature, do not make something flawed. Shit I don’t like throw clash in VF, nor do I like zero frame throws, nor do I like how evades no longer guarantee the damage that was once possible etc. Are these flaws, NO. These are features I simply do not like…and cannot be equated as a flaw due to intentional design.
Of course it doesn’t. Otherwise they’re be no reason to discuss anything on SRK or any other website. “Hey, my games awesome because I like it”. I was talking about objective problems DOA has with its system and is a big reason why the FG community doesn’t take it seriously. But wait- you’re just gonna say “They don’t get it”, right?
BTW, MvC2 may be broken but it has undeniable depth and lots of options in how teams are made and matches are played out. That’s why it gets respect even if a lot of people don’t necessarily like it.
Because it is. I like you ignore the fact it was using VF2’s system and Sega was paid for it, and even now continues to use some of its conventions and rules. Yeah, the system is different now, buts there’s still lots of obvious similarities. Itagaki respects the VF franchise openly. The numerous basics that are reflected from VF. Yeah, I guess you just choose to ignore those.
Fair enough, but that’s not what I was talking about. I’m talking about stuff that would flat out make a DOA a better game, especially for high level. You can use the “well I like it excuse” all you want but yes, compared to other fighters, they’re flaws. You can pretend like DOA lives in this void all by itself all you want.
BTW you realize Pimp Bishop was basically stating a negative thing about DOA, right?
There lies the problem. The above is a perfect example of the FG’s favoritism at work. Doa’s so called “Flaws” are not nearly as extreme, yet it is constantly shited on. Vf touted as the “best fighter” hardly get any love outside of the usual rhetoric. So do you really want me to believe that the game you like to play have no say in the overall outcome? When people bias for a certain Franchise(S) is clearly visible?
Once again I must ask,where exactly are you getting this from. Not one of my posts state that Doa did not derive from Vf’s engine (a pretty damn good one at that). My posts refer to you Calling Doa vf lite, which would imply that it is played like a shallower VF. My response being it plays differently that Vf and has its own unique style.
Compared to other fighters? This is the problem in your observation. Doa is not other fighters, and was never intended to play anything like them. I can round up a group of people who play both Tk and Vf and ask their opinions. You know what, they will give me a list of things that they will see as “flaws” in each respective game. Are these now flaws because a particular group do no like them? No. Virtua Fighter Players Like Vf because it has a type of Gameplay that they like, Tekken players like tekken because it has a type of gameplay that they like. Doa players like doa because it has a type of gameplay that they like.
people’s problems with mvc2 are metaphysical because it basically amounts to “i’m real mad about agmes since i can’t use the sprite i want to” whereas the the complaints people have with doa are basic mechanic problems
My only point is DOA has some really simple problems and if fixed could be A LOT better. Itagaki purposely making the game casual oriented and being a pervert doesn’t really help matters, you have to admit.
Alright, my mistake - I thought you were denying that. But you’re making assumptions. I never said VF-lite meant the game was bad. I play and love Virtua Fighter - if anything its good. On the same note, though are you really going to say that DOA is a deep as VF? No its not, but again I never said that was negative.
I don’t want DOA to be another VF. But since they have a lot of similarities, it’d be really easy to take positives from its system to make its own better. You can do that, and still keep DOA DOA. The game industry does this type of thing all the time.
Again, it doesn’t have to play like another game. It can just take ideas that make other games more respectable and implement them in its own. If I had to improve DOA, I’d personally:
Use a system mixing the good points of DOA2U/DOA3.1
Counter window needs to be stricter like in DOA2, maybe even moreso
Four counter (perhaps more) areas, you high, mid, etc. In DOA3.0 you could option select a lot of attacks with simply high counter hold
lessen the damage, maybe even take it away so that it becomes like Gen Fu’s hold-away parries - if you combo after it maybe implement damage scaling
Love DOA2/U but I hate how it doesn’t have recovery stop when you get hit by a blow back attack to potentially avoid environment hazards, like DOA3 did…so yeah, keep that
Make cliffs/environments do less damage, shit like DOA2U’s Great Wall (which you can fall off at very early in the first moments of a match did like 50%). Tone it down.
Now that Itagaki’s gone, guess we can start bringing up the lower tiers characters like Bass (“Pro Wrestler can never beat a ninja”) and get better balance
Throw system needs to be made better
Frame advantages and punishments could be handled better
Make sidestep have a greater use than just looking pretty
Stun system could be made better (maybe make it shakable like VF?) but not sure how
All of I can think atm.
This. We’re not talking about broken shit like CC’s or advanced stuff. People are talking about simple shit DOA gets wrong (and does so on purpose) as opposed to just about every other fighter.
^^^ I definitely agree they should make the counter window smaller, or if not, make it so they just give the user major frame advantage and little/no damage. And yeah, the Side Step needs a buff. I can’t remember side stepping ever working toward my benefit in DOA4.
Taking away counter damage would give too much power to attacks.
Why are you talking about whats already in the game we are on DOA4 not DOA2 or 3 anymore.
So in real life if you fall off a cliff or fall down some stairs are you saying that you aren’t hurt at all? Lol
Bass was top tier in DOA3. In DOA4 even though he seems low he can fight everyone very well.
Throw system needs to be made better. Thanks for you detailed contribution.
Frame advantages and punishments could be handled better. Like above thanks for your detailed contribution.
Sidesteps use I agree should be more (aka being able to evade attacks) but its use right now is to keep away from dangerous obstacles and get your opponent closer to them.
Stun system is already very shakeable.
A lot of you comments really show me you don’t even play DOA or if you do you have no clue how to play the game, so why are you in this thread?
By the way don’t expect me to respond to everything you are saying like VirtuaPai has been. I can already see you don’t even play DOA and really understand the game so for me to continue talking to you will be a big waste of my time.
Honestly haven’t played DOA4 for more than a couple of months, so if something I said is already there, cool beans. Just taking what was handled well from the games I played most and laying it out from scratch. Never said etc, etc was/was not in DOA4.
Saying “Oh, that was in DOA3/2” is irrelevant. If it was good, it was good.
Was kind of wondering that too. If you don’t want to tone down counters, than why not tone down attacks in some fashion.
But I guess you could say part of that is what makes the game “it is how it is” currently, so…
A big portion of the attacks in DOA give the opponent an advantage on block. Either the attack is -5 or its punishable.
That means blocking is really good.
What makes attacks good is the amount of attacks with follow ups to make people respect them so they don’t try to respond immediately after blocking an attack. Trust me a huge majority of those follow ups are unsafe. What starts the mind game is respecting those follow ups so now you can not finish the string and do another attack however you are still at a disadvantage where you can still be counter hit, or if someone reads your offense properly they can Defensive or Offensive Hold your next attack. Also there are single strike attacks with no follow ups that are unsafe that are useful and ones that are safe and are used as well but like I said advantage on block is very few so that means BLOCKING is very strong, but its not unbeatable because Throws are unbreakable unless it is the neutral grab which is the fastest standing grab in the game at 5 frames but everything else is about 6 - 12 and 12 being the slowest regular grab.
To people who play DOA… If they were to weaken attacks and turn counters into frame advantage parries (no damage), do you think that the game would be less solid than how DOA4 currently is? A guessed counter can easily net you a round win in DOA4… But if they changed it so it gives frame advantage (but no guaranteed damage) it would require the player to also know what to do with that frame advantage… In other words, you’ll have to be a solid player to still run away with the win. I just can’t see how a one-time guess (or anticipated) counter that guarantees damage can be something good for the game.
edit :
To perfect legend : If there are multiple followups to attacks, you wouldn’t think that slowing moves down (that could be overpowered) is a good solution?
“If they were to weaken attacks and turn counters into frame advantage parries (no damage), do you think that the game would be less solid than how DOA4 currently is? A guessed counter can easily net you a round win in DOA4…”
Attacks are right where they should be. If you were to turn counters into frame advantage parries then throws would become too powerful because there would be way more risk in doing counters because they don’t give you anything besides frame advantage. And if you want the counter to give enough frame advantage to where an attack isn’t guaranteed well we have parries in the game that work like that now, if all counters were like that there would be no reason to counter and DOA would just be a regular fighting game with a useless feature.
All you would get is a free mix up which is easily escapable and also counters would be even more risky because throws would just destroy them. Now when I am attacking what do I have to be afraid of? You getting a little bit of frame advantage? Lol. Less solid? I think the game’s core system would be imbalanced cause right now it is balanced.
To your last comment in what I quoted. A Guessed counter can win a round. So can a guessed poke, launcher, throw or guard into guaranteed punish can win a round. Same way in SF a guessed DP or normal can win a match. Seriously now I feel like you guys don’t even play fighting games now…
“In other words, you’ll have to be a solid player to still run away with the win”
Newsflash! You have to be solid in every game you play to run away with the win. And that also means win by any means necessary.
“To perfect legend : If there are multiple followups to attacks, you wouldn’t think that slowing moves down (that could be overpowered) is a good solution?”
If you slow down the follow ups to attacks then that makes them more susceptible to becoming countered which makes the follow ups useless.
Please understand that everything in DOA is where it should be. Every part of the Triangle system Attacks/Throws/Holds are all on even playing field. Neither one has to be better than the other. If you change anything you will imbalance the triangle system.
Alright I am done answering questions or anything cause until you guys actually learn the game and play it extensively you aren’t going to understand the game and will just go with the common bias.
Also the only thing DOA needs is a sidestep like Tekken’s not VF’s cause VF’s isn’t even a real sidestep it works more like a parry. A Tekken sidestep would add to the mind games in DOA.
I would also like to see a new kind of environment too.
Well comparing 2D and 3d is a little different because 2D games don’t really have that big amount of options.
Offensively its either, Jump in, Cross up, Grab
Defensively its either, Guard, Reversal, Throw tech, Anti air
Then the in between you have spacing which can involve pokes and the spacing of those pokes which is called footsies, and you can fight air to air.
Then you have a game like marvel which probably has the most options out of all of the 2D games.
Offensively, Triangle Jump, Jump In, Cross up, Grab, Assist for advantage then go in for pressure or a mixup, and chip (doom teams and spiral teams)
Defensively, Guard, Push Guard, Throw tech, Defensive assist (example psylocke, capcom, doom)
Then you have a REAL air battle especially if its sent vs sent.
