Dance with the Claw: Vega Match-up Guide/Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
2241

Can I get some pointers on Vega - Dhalsim match-up? The other day I played a couple of matches online with a local Sim player who I think is quite decent (at least for Argentina’s scene level), and I have to say I’m completely clueless about how is the general approach on this match-up. I know I will be zoned with normals, and some fireballs, but that’s all. This guy usually picks Feilong or Ryu against me when why play offline (not sure why, tho).

This are the matches in question. Mind you, my skill level is low and I rarely play online. Oh, I already know I should start with NOT doing random wall dives, or EX sky high claws, and silly shit like that… sigh u.u

2242

I’m going to assume that most of the rounds went like the first.

Best advice I see right off the bat. Get off down back. Be more mobile If you INSIST on staying in down back then at least use cHP to punish teleports. Sim shouldn’t be getting away with that nonsense.

Also U1 is superior in this matchup.

2243

Well, those were the only matches I played against his Sim (and being honest, to any Sim), but yeah… in a long set I’d say I kinda see me losing like in the 1st round. I pulled a P, based off post knowdown setups, but that’s not enough to win the actual match.
When I saw him teleporting to my back, I automatically tried to OS throw tech. Worst thing I could do, since I ended up eating a frame trap in my face. Then, I tried to cr.lp. I though I would outright beat his move, but got the same result. So, I think I was either too slow, or I just don’t know how that teleport works. I didn’t know how safe/unsafe it is, but according to SRK Wiki grounded teleport needs 19 frames to recover. So I can actually punish them with a cl.hp for a free combo? that’s quite a difference.

Oh, and getting more mobile. Yes. I’m working on that in general. I tend to panic a lot, which leads me to turtle. I feel like I need a knockdown to start my game, put up pressure, start mixing up my karathrow setups, frametraps and whatnot. So in essence I’d say I need fundamentals, desperately.

Ps. Vegaman replying my post, doushio!

2244

Sim vs Vega?

Let’s see…

You can punish Yoga Sniper on hit with EX Wall Dive. Or U1 if you are using it.
Sim has a really, really hard time anti-airing jumping HP. It’ll beat most of his stuff clean.
If you are at fierce range, step back, wait for the whiff and punish with slide.
If Sim teleports, standing HK or crouching HP.
The most common anti Sim tactic works for Vega - focus forward dash through limbs.
Sim without Super is a low damage character, you can afford to take risks. Sitting downback is playing into Sims hands.
Pressure Sim relentlessly. He has a rough time dealing with it.
Use roll blockstrings to push him into the corner. Once cornered his range becomes meaningless.

2245

not close HP. crouching HP.

Sim is a character that is similar to Vega in that he primarily deals with pokes, annoying the opponent, and evading attacks. The difference is that Vega is far more mobile.

Against most Sim players sit at full screen long enough (with or without life lead) and they’ll eventually do something stupid like teleport to you. Best option is jump back fierce resulting in a reset leading to free pressure.

With U1… ANY teleport is free Ultra damage on reaction. Any jump is free damage on reaction. Any fireball is free damage on reaction (including Sim’s U1/Super).

If you’re forced to get in due to lack of life lead, pretend you are playing as Zangief. Walk him into the corner and throw in some LP version RCFs, slides, and jumps. and just aim to be at max sMK range instead of up close.Wait for a mistake and capitalize.

Also, what Korbidon said.

2246

So that crf.mk after an izuna leads to a meaty crossup ex wall dive? That’s a sweet setup!!!

Also this dude was landing those izunas like crazy on PR Rog. How does he manage? What’s his secret?

2247

Questions: How does one beat a good Guile player?
And how should I go about fighting Chun Li’s?

2248

guile, push him in the corner slowly. he has no anti airs that will beat the jumping hp, so jump after a sonic boom. needs to be jumped in a way where he can’t jump and air grab you. after every sonic boom, expect him to jump in, aa him. after izuna drop in the corner where you land in the corner, do another izuna drop, he has no escape, free damage. make sure to weave away from the wall, then weave back into the wall before you hit him.

chun, also no anti airs against jumping hk or hp. focus at mid range. you can ex roll her fb since they love to walk forward after a fb (this is more of a gimmick though…). poke her to the corner with cr.mk (because her sweep can go under your st.mk and cr.mp. don’t frame trap with cosmic heel against her, when she spams cr.lk, she shrinks her hurtbox to make the cosmic heel whiff.

i would like to know more of the chun match up as well, especially the offensive chuns that uses cr.hk and focus to get in

2249

Balrog has a fatty hit box - especially when he is in the crouch position, kinda easy to land cross up on him and more difficult to connect in front (using the standard setups) which kinda makes the setup a give away :frowning: … PR needs to learn to give up that down charge when he sees these setups being executed…

2250

So, I played Vanilla super for most of my SF4 Career, BUT I’ve just started with AE 2012 in attempt to get better at the game.
Holy Cow does Vega feel weaker in this, not garbage, but he seems to struggle against the really good characters in this one.
Now, there are two match ups that give me tons of grief with the dude, Ryu & Seth.
Does anyone have advice on how to Deal with them? My biggest gripe is that they seem to be able to beat out Vega’s best moves with ease, and I have a hard time punishing them for mistakes.

2251

tell us what moves you’re using that are getting beat and what moves you are trying to punish. might give us a general idea on how you approaching these matchups

2252

Yeah sure, The main moves I’m using are:
Crouching: LP, MP, HP, HK, MK
Standing: HK, HP, MK, LK
Jumping: (I rarely jump at Ryu but when i do) HP, HK & MP
Also, both unique normals, but Ryu seems to be able to hit me out of em most of the time

As for specials, I only tend to use RCF (Light, Heavy & EX versions) and EX Sky high claw, and EX FBA after a combo, using it to punish mistakes just doesn’t work against these characters

I have no Idea how to deal with ryu’s jump ins and pressure, and random hurricane kicks especially give me trouble.
Seth, I just flat out cant hit, he gets in on me and does typical seth stuff and it’s curtains.
It’s hard to put my problems in words, so I might record a couple of my games with a potato if you don’t understand what I’m trying to get across.

2253

usually when your moves are getting beat is if they stick out something faster than you. when that’s happening, he’s just pushing buttons hoping you’ll run into them. what you should be doing is let them push those buttons and make sure you stay right outside those ranges, then punish it while it’s recovering with a cr.mk combo or cr.mp, or even sweep.

for unique normals, cosmic heel tends to move you back in the first 6 frames, so you could use it when pressuring to avoid the crouch tech and nail them for pushing buttons. if it’s getting beat out, you’re using it too close.

overhead should be used at a distance. it’s as long as your st.mk, so using it at that range i think is optimal. once you connect with it, you’re not too close to be uncomfortable.

really need more details on what you can’t actually punish on those characters. too many to name

instant hk to keep him from jumping. walk back to make his jump in whiff. jump ins and pressure is vega’s weakness. avoid pressure by focus tech back dash.

hurricane kicks can be blocked if you block normal, then block crossup right after. why it works is that tatsu comes out slower. it needs practice, but it’s worth it. always use this kind of block agaisnt people with tatus. this tactic gets beaten by empty jump cr.lk though, so be careful if they actually found out you’re doing this type of blocking.

why can’t you hit seth exactly? what moves are giving you problems? one thing going for you is that he can’t do typical seth stuff, because you have the flip, avoids spd and dp. but that’s if he DOES get in. he will always try to jump and dive and stuff. instant neutral hk that shit. i know it’s hard, but develop the mind for it. watch the skies, not the ground. who cares if you’re getting beaten because you don’t have the reactions, at least you’re trying and practicing, you’re not in a real tournament. so just go for it. there are ambiguous crossup setups on seth you can do on him while he’s down so it’s not that bad.

seems like your main problem is just anti airs. we all have that problem. it’s vega’s weakness. you just need to train you mind to see those jumps and react to it with a instant neutral hk. i’ve posted this many times, but i’ll do it again, instant neutral hk+lp+lk. if you didn’t do the instant hk properly, air throw will come out, so it’s all good

2254

Never knew you could block a hurricane kick like a crossup after the first hit, I saw a vega player sit right under it on a stream and CR HP during the animation to punish.
I think you just told me how that was possible, I’ll def. be taking that to the lab.

Seth is just too slippery, I think the main problem is that I can’t play footsies at all with the dude (from what I know) and a general lack of knowledge about the matchup.
You’ve given me some useful insight about both matchups though and I know that vega lacks a solid anti air, I generally backdash or block on wakeup, sometimes I’ll do a wakeup ST if i predict a jump.
Thanks for the help. When I win Evo 2015 I’ll be sure to thank you on stream :wink:

2255

Evo 2015 everyone will be playing Ultra. In fact, I hate to say it buddy but you are too late transitioning to AE because in a couple of months it will be obsolete so to speak. You’ll most likely be in the same position you’ve been in for the last couple of years, playing an old version of ssf4.

My best advice to you at this point is to practice your links, get consistent with Vegas 1 frame links in general. Further more, learn character matchups. Watch videos of pros such as Zeus and Makoto to help you learn how to play certain matchups. I would advise you to forget about learning set ups because as stated before, when Ultra drops most likely it will be worthless.

AE is way too into it’s advanced stage for you not to take advantage of the wealth of information available. I strongly recommend visual aids because frankly, its easier to learn that way.

2256

what i meant was to block the tatsu “LIKE” it would hit front, THEN block crossup. your opponent would either hit you front with a normal jump, or crossup with a tatsu

if he used a normal jump:
you block normal (attack gets blocked)
you block crossup after (you’ll still block front if he did additional attacks afterwards, because of block stun)

if he used a tatsu to crossup:
you block normal (tatsu goes over your head, he hasn’t hit you yet cause tatsu comes out slower)
you block crossup after (you’ll block the tatsu)

2257

I’m mostly playing AE to get better for Ultra’s release, I figure if I get really good with not-so-great vega in AE, I’ll really kick ass with buffed-to-hell vega in Ultra. I’m not gonna be playing AE in any tournaments, I won’t be skilled enough to get far in that short amount of time I have left.
Also, I haven’t played Super since AE came out. It’s just that I kinda lost interest in the series at that point in time, the release of Ultra has hyped me up to play again though. The matchups against Ryu and Seth are the only 2 that give me big problems in this game, once I learn them well, I feel I’m gonna be a really strong player, sure the occasional Chun-Li and Abel aren’t that much fun to play against either, but I still know what I’m doing against them, and when I lose I know why. I’ve fought high BP (Talking B+ -> A rank here) Rufus, Ibuki, Akuma, Cammy, Fei Long and a whole bunch of others and for the most part, I win against them.
It’s funny really, I fight against a smart player who knows what they’re doing and I can have a good match, be it win or loss but the second you put me against a Ryu of any skill, odds are - He’s gonna body me. Watching matchup vids isn’t really useful for Ryu because nobody plays him the same.

2258

Anyone got any advice for the Juri and Rose matchups?

I feel like Juri is probably pretty good for Vega, I’m just not sure exactly what I can do to make the match mine. Is the Izuna Loop confirmed to work on her? What are my go-to buttons against her? I know that j.HP is definitely the button to be using for jump-ins.

Rose, I have more trouble with. I just find it very hard to play the ground game with her. The best I’ve got is to just hover outside of her slide range and hope she goes for it, but if the Rose likes to stay back and throw fireballs, I’m at a bit of a loss.

2259

Juri can low profile under the izuna loop…, so unless she sucks, probably not a good idea.

cHP stuffs dive kick if timed well.
practice dealing with her teleport moves and learning how to punish.
stay on the ground unless she’s on her back.

as for Rose… if they’re going to stay back, then build ultra meter. U1 shuts down that game completely. During U2, I usually wait for 3 cycles of the orb and then execute an EX RCF to get chip while going through the orbs. Depends on her Ultra meter and if she is inclined to press a button though. If she’s trigger happy I’ll fish for a counterpoke and do it sooner risking the hit since it’s not that bad.

Edit: WTF is up with all these double quotes I keep doing?

2260

I won’t drag for too long about those matchups. Because thats a thing that can easily become a giant wall of text and I don’t have that much time avaible.
I’ll just throw out a couple of things:
Juri can be a bitch. That crMK of her is pathetic. It goes under everything. Juri has only three options in the defensive: Block, jump with crossup, crMK. Yes, her crMK is a defensive option. I really think that in high level this matchup is 6-4 Juri.
Practice the unblockables :slight_smile:
Hereand here.

As for Rose… it seems to be 5-5. A few tricks that you can use are those:
MP RCF after Foward throw. It will beal EX Soul Spiral and backdash.
Poke with crMP xx KKK Flip when she has U2 active. So you won’t get hit by it on a blocked crMP.
Whiff punish her stHK with your stMK. Slide under jump crossups that are done in footsies.