Are there any damaging Dan combos?
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play a more balanced game… like Alpha2
then he won’t be useless
FYI, Dan in SFA3 is higher in tier status than he is in SFA2. Air Dan Ku Kyaku has a ton of applications, and allows one to trap, pressure, run away, beat pokes, fake out, and alter jump-in trajectory (an anti air killer), as well as giving him monster range in his VC starter. The push-block also saves him the need to burn meter to escape guard crush and unblockable VCs. He also has a better range of anti-air options in SFA3.
I’m laughing harder than a diamond hyena.
Too each their own. I can list way more f’d up things in A3, and on top of that, everyone in A2 is useable at a competitive lvl, compared to certain characters in A3 in certain isms etc.
Pretty much everyone in A3 is competitive to some degree. V-ISM alone almost manages to make Birdie pretty decent. Only Mika and Honda really struggle, I think.
Dan is easily mid-tier in A3, so he’s definitely worth using. Pushblock gets him out of tons of unblockables and 50-50 situations that other characters get stuck blocking or alpha countering and also works as a great pressure tool in the corner, he has great normals and a juiced LK dan kick gives him advantage on block, while the MK one comes out stupid fast. He’s also got some very damaging VCs and one of the best activation ranges in the game with a juiced MK dan kick.
I would disagree that Dan is mid tier, but I do think he is one of the higher low tier characters.
He has a lot of problems, but he does have many pluses and some really solid combos. Just don’t play him like a shoto.
His only glaring weaknesses as far as I can see are a lack of a damaging confirm combo and a lack of a reversal (but activating covers that).
Once V-Dan starts his pressure, it can be a pain to get him off you, especially in the corner. He also builds meter faster than just about anyone in the game. He’s better than Adon, Rose, Birdie, Mika, Honda for sure, and he does way better against V-Akuma and V-Ryu than a lot of people in the higher tiers.
I’m not about to engage in another a3 vs a2 pissing match. But I just want to respond.
Whenever you have time please do list them. Because the last time someone (I think it was Master Biogade or whatever his name is) said that on these boards everything he listed as being *wrong * in a3 could also be found in a2, only to either in a higher or lesser degree. When I showed him evidence and citing examples he just said “blah-blah-a3 still sucks”.
I don’t know about that. Never seen a Gen tearing shit up. But even if it were true, Isn’t it mostly because most characters can just turtle, AC and lv1 cc over and till they win. Of course there’s balance if everyone plays the same. IMO a2 is one of the most monotone games ever. I’m probably wrong but, I can’t find depth in it, not even in terms of execution. I know you know more about it the game than I do so please correct me if I’m wrong. And about A3 characters thing, that is a myth. I think everyone outside of people like Juli, Honda etc is playable. Go to the a3 room and play some of the Japanese V-bison’s and adon’s X-Ryu’s and Gief’s if you think characters can only be played in ways and ism’s.
Anyway what I want to round up saying is that ALL the alpha games are fucked up somehow. You are right in the first thing you said, “To each his own”. They all have BS so pick the one you like and get on with it. But the idea of a2 players talking shit about a3 like there is nothing wrong with their game is hilarious.
EFF, I find myself just a bit curious as to how deep your knowledge of Alpha 2 actually goes.
By no means am I attempting to engage in debate over which of the two games could be considered objectively better than the other; quite simply, I only wish to understand what your definition of “depth” is. Be it execution, game play or match-up oriented as pertaining to Alpha 2.
Please explain what has led you to your [admittedly so by your openness to the idea that you could be incorrect] possibly inconclusive verdict as to the engine’s depth.
As many Alpha 2 players have broad, misguided ways of looking at Alpha 3, the converse is also true. Hopefully, we can clear up any misconceptions held by potential participants and readers of the conversation I am now attempting to initiate.
And, no offense, but similarly to how an A3 player would sneer at the complaint that A3 is trash due to: infinites, V-Akuma, V-Ism in general, imbalance, OTG’s, Guard Bar, CC’s etc…I will have likewise reactions to: Chun, Alpha Counters, Valle CC’s, Blowouts, Rose, Zangief, Throw range, Shotos, “you-can-just-turtle-because-there’s-no-guard-bar”, etc. If you truly feel as though any of those common complaints deserve ACTUAL discussion rather than using them as an intellectual security blanket though, then I’m all for it.
Also, if there are things about A2 which you simply do not know, I (or RSX if he returns to this thread) will have no problem clarifiying. Between him and myself, we know everything about the game. Well, more precisely, we know everything that is known about the game. Just discovered some new shit last month, actually. Too goddamn hard to pull off consistently, though. But…that’ll have to wait…
-randomdps
The top A2 player, Leonhard, in Japan happens to be a Gen.
Here is some vid found in the “RSX and Co. teach A2” thread.
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edit: fixed
last 2 links are incorrect
Dan on his own is not one the best character in a3, but V-ism can make any character competitive. What makes Dan shine in V-ism is he gets push block, which makes a world of difference against high tier V chars and he can build meter fast.
Let me make this clear. I don’t believe either game is wholly better and to my knowledge never stated a3 > a2 or vice versa. Yes, I like one more than the other, but as I already said, both games have problems. And most of those problems overlap. I was drawn to post because of this:
I have no deep knowledge of a2. In fact, I play a2 only when nobody is around to play a3, and even then I don’t know much outside of a2 Guy, who is the only character I play. Having said that, what I’ve seen on the surface, I can irreverently say I don’t like. And I don’t see that as use of an intellectual security blanket, it’s a preference and an opinion, which I am entitled to.
Any complaints I made about a2 where in direct response to RSX’s complaints about a3.
edit @ ruff0123: I stand corrected.
My inquiry is almost entirely in response to:
“Isn’t it mostly because most characters can just turtle, AC and lv1 cc over and till they win. Of course there’s balance if everyone plays the same. IMO a2 is one of the most monotone games ever. I’m probably wrong but, I can’t find depth in it, not even in terms of execution.”
It is difficult for me to determine whether or not these statements are meant to be admittedly assumptive or simple, publicized pontification. So my question was/is: what exactly DO you know about the game?
Of COURSE you’re entitled to your opinion very much the same way I am entitled to my curiosity as to what led you to type the aforementioned paragraph. If you have an answer, great. If you don’t have an answer or do not wish to share the answer that you DO have, also great.
I’m also not certain as to whether or not I should take your response as either an attempt at avoiding the discussion or an utter negation/retraction of your own assumptions/pontification.
My “intellectual security blanket” remark was no more than a jab at the types of thinkers I was referencing within the context of that paragraph and the one preceding it—a player who would use one or several complaints about a singular aspect of a fighting game’s engine (especially any such function that is either misunderstood or inconclusively explored) to debase the notion that the game has depth. It was in no way intended for you to take personally. Unless, of course, you are one of those people—which I was in no way inferring.
Not trying to be annoying or badgering, here. It’s just a part of my nature to wonder if, judging by that one paragraph of yours, you know something that I don’t. So…do you? What makes Alpha 2 monotonous? Why can you just turtle? Why can you just AC? Why can you just Level 1 CC over and over? Why might there not be any depth to the game or the game’s execution?
Just wondering.
Well if a lot for the characters can get away with using a blanket tactic, successfully (albeit some more so than other), yes then I think it hurts the depth of the game. But, ignore my statement about depth because it’s subjective and I probably shouldn’t have mentioned it.
However, as to why you can do these things… The answer is simply because it works. It’s no secret neither, is it my opinion alone. Players better than myself and I yourself (I’m assuming) have said it to be true. A lot of old posts from Apoc, Viscant, Valle, J.Chen etc have long since disappeared but they have all said similar things.
And yes I’m avoiding discussion because:
This ultimately isn’t what this thread is supposed to be about.
I won’t like to see the thread locked on my account.
And it’s all been discussed to death numerous times before.
Well, having had similar thoughts earlier, I agree with you about the thread, thus rendering this my last post.
Either way, the methodology you outlined earlier is, for the most part, out-dated. Don’t get me wrong, those tactics are still in employ and still effective to an extent, but they are no longer the peak of what can and does consistently happen in-game.
Without going into detail:
That style of play gets countered on paper, and said paper translates to match play without a hitch. By using the phrase “on paper”, I am not channeling the “basement theory fighter” everyone is familiar with. I am simply stating that the AC, Level 1 CC and turtle game plan can be countered with understandable, technical clarity by the practical implementation of a few simple mechanics. The game becomes deeper still when those counters are themselves countered. Then you inject yomi into the mix and the game becomes deeper still. The same yomi layers that exist in all great fighting games exist in Alpha 2. And, also like any other great/deep fighting game, there are unique tributaries/deviations/embellishments from and of the standardized layers. And, lastly, there are self-evident obligations to initiate all of which.
Now, back on subject.
No way, d3wd! Dan is t3h awesome!
I don’t argue over A2/A3 stuff cause it just goes on and on. They both have fucked up shit in it etc etc etc. As for something wrong in A3 that isnt in A2 is infinites. Yeah I know infinite isn’t insta win etc, etc, as most A3 matches you don’t see them much. Both games have bs I just think A3 has more, no need to get butthurt over it. Also, you cant just ac and cc all day, cause in a2 you can counter cc, ac a ac, or ac reversal. Also overall, most people think they know about A2 and really don’t. I don’t pretend to know all about A3, but the stuff I know I know is true, cause i talk to a3 players alot.