Hmmmm new team to attempt A-Kyo, Vice, Hibiki.
TK DEM LIGHTNING LEGZ
I’ve been trying to learn a K-groove team lately: K - Kyo, Sagat, Cammy. Not having decent competition to play against really sucks though; I can practice stuff like basic combos but I have no way to practice things like JD set-ups and such. One great thing about learning K is that it forces me to play without abusing rolls & RCs, two of my biggest bad habits.
N - Iori, Chun, Sagat is still my favorite team, though.
K Athena is such ass, but I feel so much better playing her against Cammy then freaking Blanka. Shit is too much fun.
K Athena is a bit tougher to play than RC Athena. No safe way to land super (although if you somehow get them cornered and knocked down, you can use it to chip…does crazy chip damage, especially against the taller/fatter characters), and she has her limits outside of crouch fierce.
I THINK her lk/mk air ball moves are semi safe. Fast/semi-fast lvl3s hit it, i think, but if they don’t have meter, i’m almost positive it’s semi-abusable when positioned correctly. It’s not broken or anything, but it’s a nice addition to mix in with normal jump ins. I might be crazy (re:wrong), though, so ask Buk :lol:
I also think she has a lot of trouble against K/P Cammy. Her c fierce is solid against her, but I play against an N groove R2 Athena often, and it’s become pretty easy to whiff punish with stand rh xx lvl 3. That match requires a lot of patience. One mistake gets you killed.
I use her against K Cammy, and I pretty much NEVER throw a c.FP out unless they did a s.FK first, in which case I JD and retaliate or attempt to hit her as it retracts (crazy).
Call me crazy, it’s more comforting then playing that match up with Blanka.
>_<
That’s probably the right thing to do. Her c fierce gets punished hard by cammy/sagat if it’s JD’d. I’m sure other fast supers hit it too on JD, but i know Sagat gets a free c.mk xx super off of JD’d low fierce.
You know, i think I DO do JD set-ups, as ridiculous as it sounds.
One of the more common ones is to, after an opponent is grounded, you walk up next to them, pretend to do some moves, then you JD on their wake up. On other grooves you get pushed back, for me, I stay there.
It becomes like the traditional 33/33/33, Where ;
- I stand to next you, I’m either going to Meaty you, which means you block or wake up move, Or
- I’m going to Block, which means your wake up move would hit me on block, or you walk forward and throw me or you escape from where you are if you need to (If you block I’ll throw), or I’m going to
- Jump / Hop back / Roll and bait some shit
With JD, if I JD on your wake up move, my punishment will be harsher than those without JD, simply Because I’m closer. If Ryu were to Block Ken’s light shoryuken on wake up, he would be further away and it would be slightly harder for you to come in and Shin Shoryuken. I however. Can just do it straightaway.
Anyway just one of the e.g.s
And I DO find myself baiting attacks to JD, the simplest example I have that I’m doing a lot now is with haohmaru’s c.lk c.lk c.lk c.lp -> JD
Some people who expect the overhead bash will react with a move (especially Sagat), so what you see happening is
Haohmaru : c.lk c.lk c.lk c.lp
Sagat : expects the move, Crouch DEYO!
Haohmaru :JDs the Deyo and reacts with a small poke(c.lp)…
Which pisses the hell out of the Sagat.
And is exactly like what Wepeel described.
I’ve had people who fully expected me to do the overhead bash and go ahead to Tiger Uppercut me. But I cut him back. Hard. But that has nothing to do with this thread.
So what I’m trying to say is, yes …there ARE JD set ups, and are mostly done with Characters who do a small combo, and then try to hit the opponent with a big move. Frankly, i don’t really have a lot of these, and for those that I do, i punish with a light attack.
More examples :
Zangief : c.lp c.lp c.lp Run Forward SPD -> instead of running forward to spd, just lp lp lp then Crouch and JD because some people will throw something out which you can JD and then punish with…another c.lp.
Then theres that Sagat thing? Where if you do your hotfoot and get it blocked, you can Land and JD whereas you cannot land and block? remember that? That one is useful for Sagat players.
Iori / Kyo : Theri respective 3 hit moves, stop on the second when blocked, then JD and punish.
Characters with safe moves to do, but cannot retaliate after that can also use it as setup
e.g.
Terry and Yun and Beni and Raiden and other characters all have moves that if are blocked will be safe for them, but they cannot otherwise immediately do another move to pressure. Now instead, you JD and and punish the move that people would normally push you away with.
Awww heck you guys know what I mean.
The JD setups are all there. But unless you have a good far reaching move (Fast) or you’re raged, don’t expect to punish for too big.
All these work only because you have JD, if you had done the same thing but blocked, you can’t punish them (With that very small punish).
Nice!
Thats what I wanna hear.
IIRC on the 2nd rekka for both of them any fast super will punish them on recovery before you can JD. you can probably land a c.forward before the super. 
a ton of stuff punishes the 2nd rekka for both of them.
Sigh, you guys are right…
My bad for rushing through a post like that.
Okok to rectify the situation
Kyo - First hit of Rekka, even if done up closer, is hard to punish (Unless you’re Gief). This you guys already know. But people still try because
- They may have some nice move to RC and you can’t yomi and uppercut that.
- They know you know they have an RC move anyway, so you won’t do the uppercut, so they end up just poking you with a normal move instead.
and that’s when you JD. This is especially so in the corner. Try it on Sagat, and then do his High Tiger Cannon, immediately, Kyo can JD it. (Ok, Kyo can even squat in time to avoid it even if he does that rekka right next to Sagat.).
Iori - The two hits are the well distanced kind that make you punishable only by fast supers or long fast pokes. This you guys also know. I mean, the player has to gauge himself if he wants to do Heavy into Light, medium into light etc to just hit the opponent on the outer edges. And theres this very few frames that a fast move can reach him at that distance.
Fortunately, this correct distancing by Iori also means that all (IIRC, IIRW, then Most) c.mks can’t reach him at all. Some moves that can reach him when he does it up close, can’t even reach him if he does it at the right distance.
Sometimes the poke that the opponent wants to do happens to be long and big (Deyo, again) and you can punish that. But of course, everyone knows this and will only punish with the appropriate moves, but if those same characters don’t have said long fast pokes, and no supers, they might try other pokes. (Again I use Sagat here, no meter, no long fast poke {no, Deyo is not fast enough fortunately}, so he tries anything else = you JD and punish.).
Again, just saying there’s setups, but doesn’t mean the set up = big Punish if JDed. Sometimes…the set up sets me up to JD only, and no punish…
i currently use k-cammy, blanka, sagat
and i want to add akuma
who should i replace?
or should i just not add akuma?
replace blanka if youre going to add akuma. blanka is still blanka in K, but cammy and sagat are loads better than him in K
I agree, but it really depends on the type of player you are. If you’re really really antsy, keep blanka, and get rid of either of the others. Blanka doesn’t have to think very hard to get wins.
[COLOR=“DarkOrchid”]what would be a strong base team
c ken guile sagat2
a vega joe eagle 2
n honda iori ryu [/COLOR]
C Ken Guile Sagat 2 is a very popular team, although Guile is usually put first and Ken second. Guile is great at building meter, and Ken has great supers.
what if instead of akuma, i replace with rock?
Rock is a beast in K.
But i think, if you like more akuma than rock then try your best to train a great akuma char.
Akuma, Rock, Cammy, Blanka and Sagat are all solid K characters. And since meter isn’t transferred from round to round, which characters you pick and the order you put them in doesn’t matter nearly as much as in other grooves except for counter character scenarios. You’re probably gonna want to have Cammy, Blanka or Sagat as your anchor because they’re so powerful. I personally chose Blanka because I’m strongest with him, but I’ve seen other people on this thread argue that Sagat should be anchor because of all his good matchups. I’ve also been advised that Blanka is good up front if you’re going up against a team with A-Vega. Keeping those things in mind, any combination of those five characters in K groove will be solid. It all depends on who you’re most comfortable with.
Rock is a much better character than akuma, overall. Better damage output, better mixups, easier links into supers, MORE LIFE, etc. My K team is Hibiki/Rock/Sagat (or Sagat/Rock/Hibiki, for counter purposes). Easily one of my favorite characters in CvS2. If you decide to learn him, good choice :P.