Ah by tiger kneeing the move i mean…
the hishou kyaku (qcf+k in air ) would be like this…
qcf uf+k
the other move you might tiger knee would be the hou’ou tenbuu kyaku
which would be qcf,hcb ub+k
ah as for what controller i use i can use both arcade stick and controller. just depends i guess. Though i will say i hate most 360 joy sticks beacuse i cant feel the angles.
ZONEING…
umm hmmm ok…im really tried…lol ahh…lets just go over a few things.
OK jumping straight up. Or more likely sj striaght up. Jumping straight up is always a nice way to get your space ect. Its also good against hoppity type characters or spazzy. Basicly with kim you wanna jump straight up then if they jump just stick out mk to anti air them. If they try to gain ground while walking well use roundhouse. Kim is also very much so better at this(then some other characters) beacuse of a few other reasons…The hishou kyaku being a pretty obivous one. OK now lets say your vs iori. Say he has you zoned out with fireballs of some sort now you start try to jump straight up over fireballs to slowly gain ground walk foward jump straight up ect.(i suppose you could roll but lets say its not the best option at the time or say your in K or P)Well the iori person expects this so he does madien masher to anti air you when you are in the air. Well fuck that you can do hishou kyaku to stall your fall from the air then come down. You just saved your self big time. Another lets say your vs bison(usa) his all hopping his in the air the whole time. So you decide to try to zone him out by jumping straight up mk. Well eventualy he starts to settle down and starts to turtle a bit him self. He baits your jump and does the super pycho crusher to anti air you. well you do hishou kyaku to delay your fall. and well basicly your safe.
starting to get it??
OK another thing. One way to stop tactics like these would be to slowly inch your way foward then stick out a anti air while they are still in the air. Perferably a normal in case they have C groove so they cant air block. Well kim is also pretty safe from things like this as well you could air super straight down on them if you anticapted this.
Jumping straight up=good.
its pretty boring at times though all admit.
More things. Ground wise when i start to turtle try to keep the opponent at set distances all do something to this exstent.
ducking lk,lp, standing lk…
just do it really fast. your gonna be wiffing them basicly. So you should be lets say at least half screen away. walking back and forth really fast wiffing moves staying out of distacne really but your attacks should keep them from trying to back up if thats what they were doing. and if they are trying to attack also standing lk should at least trade with there attacks if not beat them.
While your doing this you could also try to everynow and then down down+k to charge some super.
all this togther can let kim turtle pretty effectivly if need be.
im away from you wiffing a little 3 attack string. Charging super everynow and then with haki kyaku. The other dude gets pissed goes to jump i jump up mk. now lets say the opponent is a bit spazzy starts jumping well i start jumping staright up and down quite a bit adjusting to well whatever he trys to do. Also if you play C groove always hold back(or down back) while jumping straight up. This will help that if the opponent did get there attack out before you you just air blocked it. Now in most cases you will acctualy land before them and you will be able to reversal with a super of some sort when you land to hit them.
So in conculsion kim has alot of options to zone out the opponent when you guess right and even if the do guess right you have the tools to (delay your fall ect) to keep your self safe so you wont come out on the losing end.
Ive been using K kim as of late, n I think im the only one who does. Pesonally I believe its the only groove with out a roll Kim is worth anything in. Off a aerial JD the hishou kyaku makes it almost a parry n once u get bar no one trys to AA since his rush supers are so damn fast. It also really helps his poke game since JD a heavy to mid power poke isnt safe anymore. Any oe else play him in K?
*Also just in case you wanted to know when i land the qcfX2+mk the regualr combo i would do is…
qcfX2+mk, infintie commandX3, lp, down up+hk.
This hurts you alot, does a ton of stun and is pretty easy. The infintie gets harder after awhile of doing. Not that it really does get harder it just does cuz its like a uncomfertable postion for your hands really. So after i do my damage im basicly like ok why risking doing it more with the chance of me fucking up? This ussaly dizzys anyway.(depending on were you are in the match.)*
when you say “infintie commandx3”, are you referring to dd+hk (hold), d+lp (let go), d+hk being used to juggle after a qcfx2+mk
yes
Well since this is gonna take awhile also considering im having trouble getting on to forums anyway lets just get the bison thing outa the way…
BISON(usa vega japan)…
OK lets get some stuff out of the way. The common poke string for bison is not safe. At least lemme assuming you are talking along the lines of
ducking lpX2,mk , b f+lk.
this is string is punishable by all means. Now a sissor kick from max distance were it only hits with one hit your pretty much gonna be screwed and not gonna be able to hit him. But then again if he were to do something to this exstent that would mean that he left a whole in this string were you can roll easily to avoid.
I would guess that (at least if i were bison i would) bison however is doing the regular poke string that i listed.
Now this acctualy strangly enough will not be hit by normal reversals. Like lets say you tried to reversal down up+k or p. this will not hit. But strangly enough even the more simpler ducking lk or mk should hit him after this. Of course you are also able to reversal hou ou kyaku level2 or higher however if you wished to do so.
Now ok so basicly you block this string now just hit ducking lk. this is the easiest. Time it earlier then you think you acctualy get out of the block stun.(or at least it seems to me.) The ducking mk can also be used. But the timing is very unforgiving on this and well. Unless you feel confident in timing this stick with the ducking lk.
Useing the ducking lk isnt that bad anyway. Since your already charging from blocking the ducking mk(at least most likely as i would assume most poke strings should be block low) in the pattern after the sissor kick hit ducking lk then press up and hp.
easy you punished him.
Now unless this is some differnt poke string or something that i listed earlier this should work for you every time. Go in training mode if you would like to practice doing it with the mk however as the timing on that is a bit hard. =/
Anyway now that we got this little thing you asked about lets get to the others.
No in most cases you are right you shouldnt anti air with hou ou kyaku. Jump is to high and well in most cases you will miss. IN a strange twist of fate however. You could anti air with( i guess that is rolls eyes still not the best, but better then hou ou kyaku in this piticular match) hou’ou hetin kyaku. His jump is pretty much just asking for this move. And since this move never gets used its pretty lonesome by now so its just itching to get out. Just anticapate the jump and do this attack early. And you should hit him.
Ussaly against bison i use the jump mk to anti air him. His jump is high enough that even if i was slightly unprepared for the jump in i still have enough time to pull it off. So when you see the jump just sj foward and hit mk right when you leave the ground. ALso if your in C groove remember to be holding back when you jump in case bison sticks out a attack early and your attack its not really a prob you should air block this then land with more then enough time in a lot of cases to land then reversal him while he is still falling.
And yes in air to air use the mk.
Another thing though i did say the the hou’ou hetin kyaku is good i would nessacarly use the ducking fierce for anti air as in when he jumps in.
Though there is a time when this move may become usefull.
One of bisons tactics he may use against kim(and well not just kim but were talking kim here so i will contiune) is well put him self in the corner purposly then start jumping up and down hk. Since bisons jump is so dang high it also can make it hard to air to air him as hes always has the higher ground then you.
Basicly this makes it hard to realy get near him. When used right this also makes rolling useless as well hes in the air so not really the best time to roll when he could just easly avoid it or hit you. OK but now what you should do against something like this is walk foward wait for him to jump up then ducking fierce. From this angle you should never get beat. This will stop the jumping up and down flat out. Just wait for him to do this then walk foward ducking hp.
A really good use for this move in this piticualr match.
Other anti air options in this piticualr match up is remember to delay the button presses for the cross ups.
Like when you do a anti air if you wanna anti air a cross up you would do down up…(stutter)+hp.
This should allow you enough time to track bisons cross ups and make it fairly easy.
So ok for a regualr anti air it would be down up+hp
cross up down up(stutter or delay) then press hp
so basicly were regulary you would press up then the button at the same time. Now you press up then the button.
Its pretty easy when you get the hang of it. And bisons cross ups have hella air time so its not to hard to time in many cases in a match like this. And its really a most do at times cuz if you try to just do the motion for hein zan regularly the cross up will beat the move. =/
Both command anti airs have uses in this match up. Just use them were you see fit.
Bison has a pretty fast rushing jab also. But never try to roll out of this. Just down up+hk as reversal. Shouldnt be to hard to reversal with. Please dont try to roll out of this. Bisons jab rush is really good and fast and he can just turn around quickly on the other side restart or throw you etheir or.
One of the biggest things about the bison match is well. Against bison he may be in the air alot so this match can be sorta tiresome. its not to hard of a match up i dun think. But the biggest problem is the annoyence factor. Just play stupid if you have to. Many times in a bison match were i get the lead i jump up and down with mks for long periods of time. lol very boring but just keep bison zoned out and you should have to much trouble. Just stay air to air with him. Work him down to the ground. Then beat him there. Try not to chase him to much. Dun get to frustrated when playing him!!! Just remember mk for air to air and work him down to the ground with that.
on another note standing fierce does hit him ducking also so this can be a good poke in this match up.
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okies other then that use the regular kim stuff you would do in a regular match. Roll super ect. =p yadda yadda. Those should be the character speciifics i can think about.
OK thats it for now all get to your stuff later znzf im gonna be pretty busy for the weekend though not to sure though might go hang out tommorow with friends and then i work on the weekend so im not to sure when its gonna get done.
but all try.
okies later.
K Groove
Off an aerial JD, you could do jLP/FP, Hou’ou Tenbu Kyaku (if in RAGE MODE of course).
I used to use K-Groove to TONE DOWN my Rolling when I played Kim in N-Groove. I found it hard to play Kim in K because of my JD skills lacked. I marely turtled with Kim in K-Groove. I’m might pick it back up sometime.
Hey Clayton, wasn’t K-Groove Kim’s Hangestu Zan SAFE. So you could abuse Kim’s B&B combo all you wanted.
Big thanks, FS!!
Hopefully, I’ll beat the hell out of his Bison next time I fight him!:evil:
As you said, one of my main problems was the impatiene. I’ll try not to chase him that much, but let him come to me, and try the tactics you’ve suggested…
THANKS!
K Groove
yeah sorta to an exstent. what you do or i dunno i guess what basicly happens is that well after the qcb+k you just do like JD right after it. And since when you JD you sorta like go into the block aniamation really fast you dun really have that frame before it so a delayed blocking super shouldnt effect you beacuse you go right into the block without that frame or whatever it is before you start blocking.
I remember ive seen a video of a K groove kim doing this also before. Not to sure were it was though.
So you just qcb+k then press back right after and you should be safer then usual. Its sorta like rocks little strings in P groove.
I havnt forgot about the thread. dun worry you guys…all write more once im in the mood and not working ect…
Kim is god with autoguard…
I mean BUMP
lol…riiiiiiiiiiight…
anyways…
GROOVE SELECTION…
Yawn lets go through this though im sure you already know what i would say anyway. OK lets get S outta the way first. Kim doesnt really gain much from S besides gaining a new anti air with dodge +p. Besides that its at the second hit so its gotta be a fairly early anti air. Still it has nice priorty so thats not to bad. ALso you trade the roll for the dodge which is a bit strange espeiclay consdiering kim has arguably the best roll in the game. You can still try and add the dodge to your poke strings.
like you could do a cross up hk, land ducking lk,lp dodge+p qcb+lk stuff like that.
Just try to use the dodge in middle of poke strings and if they dont attack well go into a combo.
You could also work it in were ever i put just a regualr standing close fierce just dodge were that was. So if you see a attack you would have just dodged it then do a super out of it or since you should be charging do a hein zan or kuu sajin.
If you hit with the dodge attack you should most likely go into hein zan or kuu sajin.
Hmm since you dun need haki kyaku to build super now you can just use the charge in its place obivously and well if they jump then jump mk them ect.
In N groove is well N groove i guess.
lol…well i think the biggest problems for kim in S or N is that in reality in most cases you only have access to level 1s. And for the most part the levels 1 are alot harder to use. To counter attack on the ground you need to do tiger knee hou’ou tenbuu kyaku to stop the attack. But of course this is harder considering you are in a low jump groove in the first place. =/ The hou ou kyaku is ok at level 1 for some reversals on some meaty attacks. But in most cases this isnt that good at level 1. Of Course also doing a random super with a level 1 isnt the best idea ethier. lol The hou’ou hetin kyaku is ok if its a early early anti air.
Hmm basicly kims biggest problem in these grooves is that his level 1s arnt the greatest. Also low jump makes it harder to tiger knee. I also think dashing is much better then running.
The only thing all give running is that its easy to get in a start your main pokeing pattern of ducking lk,lp,lk, standing lk ect.
This should be the main pattern with kim IMO. And you can get in close enough to start this pretty easily.
K and P groove. Bleh. lol. Well the hangetzan becomes a bit more safe as i explained earlier.
dang ok im getting bored realy quick. as you can tell im cutting this short.
basicly i think C groove is by far his best groove. Dash is much better since you can cross up dash ect. You have air blocking which will help if you decide to turtle. You have level 2 supers which are just the best supers ever. lol
dang ok im bored…
anyway in translation pic…
C GROOVE!!!
lol sorry guys i suck… all try to write better next time.
Grooves?
Hey Clayton, you baised C-Groove lover. You’re all lazy and forgot to put P-Groove and A-Groove.
Anyways…
Extra stuff:
S-Groove:
You can also do Kim’s Hou’ou Tnebu Kyaku and Hishou Kyaku during a dodge, you just have to tiger knee it.
N-Groove:
Just because supers aren’t as great as C-Groove, doesn’t mean N-Groove sucks. Breaking Power Stocks is good for getting in that little bit of extra damage. Guard Cancel Emergency Roll (f/b LP+LK) is a great addtion to N-Groove, since this helps against pressure attacks (Clayton Tactic) and some Custom Combo’s. Trust me, it’s worth a stock if your in trouble. Running is good damn it. You can run and poke at times.
Oh well, this stuff may not help but it’s something.
lol…bah I guess i did forget A groove. Dum ass 2 button reversals. lol Oh buti guess doing a custom after a anti air kuu sajin can be a nice set up.
I dunno i hate N groove its such a cheap rip off of a once good advanced system or whatever. Low jumping and running are both stupid in cvs.
But yeah i guess like you just said counter rol is ok i guess. i guess kim could be considerd better with it acctualy since well his roll would be faster doing it.
Oh umm ok…Running anti airs are good. Like say you are at the other side of the screen and well of course the opponent just isnt gonna sit there so you have difernt options if you see them jump you can early anti air with ducking hp. If they just block there you can get in close then start your poke strings if you see them attack roll through it. You can use running to sutter just move in a bit closer then standing lk something like that. Try to run to a distance then just attack with the edge of your foot or whatever.
blah i dunno i hate running.
As for P groove well like you said earlier(or i guess you were talking about K but semi the same) you can parry in the air say a dp type move then fierce cancled to air super…
oh well i dunno C groove is best! =p
I like Kim. I know C groove is the best for Kim on “paper” but I use Kim in N groove. Do you think he can be just as good in N groove, rather than C groove, but in a different way?
N-Groove Kim is the best. FS just likes him for his dashing and lv2 supers. Kim’s short jump game is very limited though. I would use his jFK as a short jump attack. His running is good to start poke strings and such like FS had stated. The only 3 running attacks that should be used are sLK, cFK, or sFP.
lol…
well ok C is just better i guess. And yeah if you were playing N groove you should play diff cuz you cant play the same.
Lets see…
N Groove you lose random supers. You lost one of your very good anti airs. You lose the infinite.(isntt to bad but still you lose it.) You lose air blocking which will help you turtle.(examples would be jumping straight up and say they got the jump on you and get there attack out before well in most cases you block it. land and can then super them while they fall down.) You sorta lose tiger knee. Well ok you dont but trust me lets just say you miss and you jumping lk to no were. thats not very good. lol…
You lose your dash so no more cross up dash mind games with throws all that stuff. You lose your level 2s which are exstremly good. You should never really even need to use a level 3. Just use your level 2 if your using it to hit one of there attacks ect you shouldnt have needed a level 3 in the first place. And well if you hit you can ethier go into another level 1 for more damage then the level 3 it self. Or you could just hit with the level 2. Then you only need to charge up another level 1 wich shouldnt be to hard.
yeah so you do need to play diff in N groove you should play more offensensive in your face style. Rushing in to start your main patterns ect.
I dunno i think kim is better in C groove its just imo. So if you wanna play N you can its ok.
Oh who cares if the infinite doesn’t work in N-Groove. I mean, if you corner the opponent with a MAX Hou’ou Hiten Kyaku, you still can get 2 haki Kyaku’s and a Hou’ou Kyaku (if you have another stock).
Anyways, it’s all about a blocked mp Kuu sa Jin being a nice cross up. It sets you up for pokes and shit.
…C-Groove is crap. Blah! I could never use Kim in any crapcom groove. Well, I do use Kim in A-Groove on some occasions. It’s rare though.
In N-Groove, you can build up your super meter easily too. Oh wait, Kim can build meter like mad in any Groove, due to his poke strings… My Bad!
Hey Clayton, I’ve got little Boy Orochi Chris for ya next time we play some KoF’98.
ROLLING STRATS…
hm well umm yeah. =p how could i make a kim thread without talking about rolling eh? Well umm yeah i couldnt really… hmm rolling is good. lol. Hmm kims roll isnt even a roll the way i see it. When i think of kim rolling i think of it as just another every day speical move that he has. anyway lets go over the main every day things you use and when it should happen blah blah…
bleh it would probably be more usefull if i knew how to explain it. Basicly its the mix up that will beat all of your opponents attacks when he attacks, and you want to try and cross up with it most likely.
throw. ohhh… OK this is used when the opponent is expecting the hein zan or roll super. So wel they block and you throw there bitch ass. Simple enough eh?
down +lkX3 kuu sajin(down up+hp). ok this mix up is pretty important. Ok cuz one way to semi stop the roll throw/super patterns ect is to block high when the opponent roll. Now what happens is when the opponent blocks high they will block the counter attack or if they get thrown they can quickly tech. Theres nothing you can really do about this if the opponent is fast. Of course throwing is a bit safer cuz you wont be punished after words. OK so heres how to stop this. If the opponent is doing this you roll(perferably cross up) then ducking lkX3 to kuu sajin.
Now even if you werent regualraly charged for the whole roll the ducknig lks should give you enough time to complete the charge. Also even if the opponent block the kuu sajin you could try the hou ou kyaku super when you land to fool or whatever. and if you hit well you have all the great mix up after a kuu sajin.
Now what this will do is make your opponent half to block low. Its like exstremtly hard to tech throws if the opponent is ducking. So they should not be able to tech your throws.
qcb, hcf stutter then mk. You should do the motion a bit early duruing the roll then right when you come hit mk. Now weather or not you crossed up or not you should get it. Just like when trying to dp cross ups stuff like that.
hmm ok getting very bored here. But anyway this is your mix up. If you are a good guesser you should well. do good… Mix up with the down X3 lk to stop turtlers from just trying to hold block to block anti air and be able to stop throws.
ok later…