CvS2: E. Honda - advanced tactics

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

Hey folks, I want to hear the various strategies and grooves you use honda in… I almost exclusively use him in c-groove, either ratio 1 or 2.

Here’s a few things:

Headbutt: as you should all know, the jab version has shoryuken-like invincibility. Some startup causes problems using jab headbutt to counter poking characters. this is his best anti-air, except it doesn’t hit crossovers.

flying butt smash: forward and roundhouse versions have a lot of lag, and can be punished like mad… but these versions can also be used for crossing over on your opponent’s wakeup, which is what i do sometimes to mix it up. short version is also quite invincible, i’ve gone through level 3 supers and stuffed dragon punches. fairly safe if blocked, not completely.

his best pokes:
standing or crouching strong punch, don’t see a difference between them in terms of priority, but these moves are great pokes.

towards+roundhouse, a cool trip move with good recovery. A great alternative to low-fierce (horrible lag on that move) and good range, I use a meaty one on my opponent’s wakeup sometimes, it is very good for mixing things up.

crouching forward (2 hits): high priority, cancellable into super, and like terry’s 2-hit fierce, you have a lot of time to cancel it (provided you’re charging)

crossover forward: he’s flying, this move has great crossover properties, but poor air-air priority. i usually go for a combo:
crossup forward, c.forward (2 hits), XX level 2 super XX fierce headbutt

lets not forget that hundred-hand-slap is a great move to throw out once in a while.

j.roundhouse, also a great move, I usually use it while jumping backwards, it gives a higher probability that your opponent will be in the right spot to be hit. This does tons of damage as far as normal moves go.

I usually wait for an opening, then I fierce-headbutt to get close to the enemy, then I start a poking battle with strong and crossover forward, throwing in hundred-hand-slaps and you can even throw in a level 1 - 2 super for poking, if you guess wrong, you are safe.

Level 3 headbutt super: this crazy crazy super has high (extremely high) invincibility the whole time he’s flying. This super EATS FIREBALLS (not like blanka’s flying electricity super, which passes through fireballs) HONDA IS SO HUNGRY, he ACTUALLY EATS THE FIREBALLS. they just poof away, which looks very cool.

you can punish any fireball with the exception of probably sonic boom from near-full screen away. you need to anticipate a little, though. if you THINK your opponent will fireball, wait for it, then just forward-back-forward-fierce that shit and super his ass.

I’m interested to hear other honda strategies, especially other than “i wait for my opponent to jump, then I hit jab headbutt!”

thanks guys

2

Honda…

I just went back to Honda recently. I was using Vega but he kept getting rushed down. I couldn’t handle it. Do you have any strats on how to Beat Balrog or Hibiki? I think those are his worse matchups! Anyone that turtles give him a hard time too.

His standing fierce is a decent antiair. It can do more damage then his jab headbutt sometimes. Against K or P groove you want to mix up your antiairs so it’s harder for them to parry. You didn’t mention the Buttslam Toss. It’s always good to have a throw that can’t be teched out of. His most powerful super in the game is the 720 throw. So I try to get it in every once in awhile.

3

i’ve heard that honda is good in k groove but he just doesn’t seem mobile enough in that groove for me, any pointers?

4

dont forget his crouching fierce, that move is great, better to use than his crouching roundhouse. a great poking combo that i use is crossover mk, crouching short x2, crouching fierce. the fierce doesnt combo, but most people stop blocking after the two shorts since they get pushed back.
against turtlers, i would suggest you either be in p or k groove. presonally, i think k groove is better for honda since the run will help his slow ass and the short jump is pretty handy to help come in closer.

5

Something I’m meaning to test out is if they are doing meaty attacks as you get up (like shorts, etc.), 360/720 em out of it as you get up. I’m pretty sure it’ll beat those out, but I want to try it when I get the chance.

6

Some Honda facts:

IMO, he’s better with run than dash. He isn’t THAT mobile outside of the headbutt, so run works well for him. Also, he has a neat little trick with running into f+rh. For some odd reason people rarely block low when you run at them…

His mp/c.mp are two FANTASTIC pokes, and should be a large part of your defensive game. IIRC, it beats/trades with blanka low fierce, and other such high-priority moves.

His best jump-ins are mk and rh. mk for combos and cross-overs, rh to hit fireballers long-range.

His fierce porckchop is good as emergency no-charge anti-air, otherwise the obvious jab headbutt. This beats MOST jump-ins, but there are a couple exceptions, most notably Rock’s j.rh.

His 360/720 grabs aren’t as good as some people are making them out to be. Good because most people forget he has them, but bad because they have horrific range. You have to be RIGHT next to them, and his lv3 headbutt is a much better use of meter.

The hundred hand slap is a very good tool, but it’s kind of hard to explain when to use it. Always at the end of blocked poke patterns, sometimes after a blocked/hitting super, the infamous grabby into slappy, or against characters who don’t have a good wake-up move.

Overall, I think that Honda is VERY underrated, in fact after Ryo i’d say he is the most underrated in the game. Sure, he has problems (BIG problems agaisnt Hibiki, and shotos kinda), but he does well against ground fireballers, Sagat, and Blanka. My major problem with Honda is i can never really decide if i want to play offensive honda, which is risky, but it works, or turtle honda, which is very effective, especially in my groove of choice S, but it is also risky because you won’t be hitting your opponent much, and one fuck up and you will be eating super.

EDIT: My usual blocked poke pattern is jump-in mk, crouching mk, fierce hundred hand slap, fierce headbutt, crouching mp. Obviously, this can be punished at certain stages, but I still like it.

7

I see after reviving this thread, there are people who use Honda!

Crouching fierce has good range but long recovery so it still must be used wisely. My block string now is crossover forward standing jab, HHS (5-6 hits) actually this combos, but my hand starts hurting from pushing the buttons after awhile :bluu:

About his Buttslam Toss stopping meaty attacks. His 360 won’t work becuz it has startup animation. The only instant special throw is Zangief’s SPD. The 720 will work but it will have to be a reversal and that’s very difficult to do. You can theoretically end the motion with down-back. This ensures you will be blocking haha so it’s a no lose situation.

His standing roundhouse is decent antiair against people jumping from far away. Honda’s standing fierce usually does more damage than his jab headbutt becuz it’s usually a counterhit.

His 720 super may have bad range but it does a lot more damage than his headbutt super. The headbutt only does 10 hits for 5800 when you’re next to your opponent. If not, it will only hit 8 times for 5000. 720 does 6600 damage and less people expect it.

Oh yea his jab headbutt can do 2 blocked hits up close for about 350 damage. An interesting tidbit. hehe :smiley:

Honda’s best combo I think is Jumping fierce, standing fierce Super headbutt (L3). Most practical is replace fierce with ducking forward. Otherwise ducking forward into Super headbutt (L1).

8

I don’t know what people are tripping off of. Standing fierce is bad in CvS. Its priority got KILLED. It’s only good on crossups an to throw off the timing of parry whores now.

Honda has to be a little aggressive to get the job done. Sitting and waiting for something to jab headbutt doesn’t really work, unless you’re already winning and know how to fight on the ground. Jab headbutt still gets beat by low attacks on startup.

OCCASIONAL use of the splashes can help sometimes.

9

Bizump.

Honda running.

More honda strats plz!

And i agree with dasrik about the chop not being very effective anymore. What would you recommend for no-charge anti-air? Standing roundhouse? An air-to-air?

10

air to air i use j. strong cuz it is the most horizontal air in the move he has. It’s priority is ass but its better than getting slapped down everytime you jump/

Honda Mid Screen CC

c. Rh, s fierce, medium butt drop, hand slaps (1 iht), fierce head butt, s. fierce X 3, s. rh (2hits), super.

handslaps have to be done VERY fast, so in other words start mashing punch as soon as you are airborn from the butt drop.

a regular combo for honda is

j. mk (crossover or not) then handslaps, does BIG damage, or chip damage if they block.

11

i think my honda just got better with the new CC

12

my strag with honda
i rush them down.
just keep on headbutting. mk butt slam. roll throw, roll hundred hand slap. cross over.
that the last thing ppl expect you to do. rush down with honda.

13

Personally the only honda i do consistantly good with is K (i think N is good too but only if u can RC)honda. The reason why is honda abuses every aspect of K grooves systems. For one he needs run and small jump if your going to try to be offensive at all. Run and small jump are also great ways to trick into his command/super throw. JD is great for him, or at least better than his roll. After a JD u can command throw there your opponet ths will make him seize up almost like u had a parry n make him stop throw predictable pokes out. JD into command throw also stops the tick into throw that people do to mess with your JDs since his command throw is faster than other peoples throws. Honda can actaully get a jumping game going with JD. The beauty is that since hes so big u have better chance of recovering from an air JD and landing a feirce. Also, no ones mentioned his J.FP, its slow but is u set it up right it has HUGE priority!!! Then of course if u cant JDxxthrow a move a person puts out u might be able to headbut him before he recovers. Super bar wise i dont think hondas super/CC are helpful enough to justify using C or A…P how ever has merit but is very risky n gets trapped alot. However getting 2-3 of his supers is great for him. The headbutt one is good chipping/GC and sets up a JD for one of the above mentioned tricks. The super throw becomes your AA super with JD and u wont beleive how often i trick people into super just cause im raged. Speaking of being raged honda doesnt really combo all that much but he does land a lot of throws n meaty moves so being raged is too good. The last thing to note is honda does get a bit more life just for beinf in K nothing special but nice since he already has more than most.

Gah…im tired of typing now so ill get into his actaul gameplan later.

14

First of all, his anti-air is LP Torpedo, everybody knows that.

I use LK Sumo Splash as wakeup.

I find Honda best in a groove where he can Roll, but I think that’s obvious too. He makes very good use of Roll Cancels, and even though this might sound scrubby, Roll -> 360/720 works very well.

Anyways, provided that the opponent doesn’t have an instant super, HP Torpedos are safe when blocked. However, they are vulnerable on the way to the opponent. The opponent can just poke you out of it, jump backwards and kick you, or if you’re too predictable, he can DP or super you. If you can get the opponent to block HP Torpedos, you can shred his guard meter, giving you an opening for some damage. Also, if you can, RC those HP Torpedos. In my opinion, Back-Forward motions are the second easiest motions to RC consistently (What’s the easiest?? Read on and find out). They’re definitely worth it for the Torpedo.

Now, for the interesting stuff; here’s the fancy shit. I don’t know if anyone else does this, but there’s a LOT of shit you can do once you knock the opponent down (and close to you). First of all, suppose you hit the opponent with a roll -> 360. From here, you can:

  1. RC Slaps on the opponent’s wakeup. (In my opinion, moves like Slaps is the easiest moves to RC consistently) There is no escape from this. All the opponent can do is block (or TacRec if you’re playing vs C-Groove). Use this one the most, seeing as it’s virtually 100% safe, and if your opponent gets used to this, you’ll be landing #2 and 3 like crazy afterwards.
  2. Since my RC Slaps is preceeded by a s.MP, I can fake an RC Slaps, and just do a s.MP that just whiffs as the opponent is getting up. If he’s expecting Slaps, he’ll block, and you 360 him again. This one works like a charm, believe it or not.
  3. Mash on MP and do a non-RC’ed Slaps before the opponent gets up. Stop mashing right when the Slaps starts, and Honda won’t even touch the opponent. The opponent will likely be blocking, so give him a 360.

Well, that’s it for my ghetto tactics. I hope this helps someone. Peace.

15

i found somethiing about hondas standing fierce(that overhead chop), i was playing against yamazaki recently and as usual he had a lvl 3 super at his disposal and tried the AA super move, i think its called gulloitine. anyway as soon as he jumped up at that strange arc to hit me , i just pressed FP as a reflex and it knocked him right out of it. I think the only catch is that you have to be close in order for that to happen.

16

Well, yeah… you could probably pretty much use any well-timed poke to knock him out of the air from the ground. If he isn’t comboing into it or using it for AA, it can easily be punished.

17

I use E.Honda mostly in N-Groove because of low jump and stockbreak mindfuck. LJ.roundhouse and strong adds an extra dimension to Honda’s attacks, and you can usually follow them up with a fierce headbutt.

2 cents.

18

advanced honda tactics is oxymoron.

19

Is it possible to land a headbutt or his super after his Alpha Counter? I been trying, but I can’t even do Bison’s Super PC after his AC, so somehow I don’t think I could pull this off without knowing its possible.

20

WTF…

I have seen like no difference between good and bad Hondas… they all just sit on their ass…

Honda Tactics 101… sit

sit

sit

sit

they jump jab Headbutt/ st FP/short belly smash

sit some more

sit some more

f RH to trip

wow… you hit them twice and did 40% of their life bar…

now you can move onto phase two sit and hit cr Strong cuz you have made they realize not to attempt jumps.

This is the most effective Honda… the more you try to do with him… the less chances of winning… so just sit and shit.