CvS2: Chun Li everything

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
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For the majority of the characters, getting both Fierces off from one Jump isn’t easy. In fact, it’s downright hard, maybe impossible. It would only work on characters like Sagat or Zangief and even then, if I recall correctly, it’s not easy. Most of the Combo Videos I’ve seen do it from a Low Jump (she falls slower and doesn’t go as high, so it’s not hard) or a Low Jump Head Stomp (same situation). But other than that, it would be very difficult to pull that off. Otherwise, she totally WOULD be another coming of Gen of Alpha 3. :slight_smile:

  • James
242

JChen…

since you are a systems specialist :stuck_out_tongue: for CvS2. Major props for your in depth info.

I need some info and how to perform info about Chun Li and couple of other characters.

At a tourny over here, I saw Choi vs Ortiz… like everytime they hit a st MP, they comboed it on reaction to a super. At first I thought they were doing like qcf mp, qcf, if it hit… K, if not no kick. Cuz they literally would be poking and blocking… then one landed a MP… super right away. But from what Choi mentioned very briefly… they weren’t doing that. He said there is a special timing for Chun’s st MP and Sagat’s low fwd… where if you do the buffer into the super… it only comes out if the move hits and when it doesn’t no super. He said it was slightly delayed. I have not managed to figure out the timing yet.

So I was wondering if you can explain to me how it works… and shed a little more light on how the timing might work. Cuz I can even combo a Ryu cr MK CH into a super on reaction… but comboing chun’s st MP on reaction to a non CH seems damn near impossible unless you use this trick (I have probs w/ st MP CH in general).

And I did not know Sagat had some gay shit like that w/ his low forward… I will whore that move now.

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Jiggle, press MP (make sure it’s a standing mp), immediately and always buffer a single QCF motion (quickly, and even if it whiffs or is blocked. Make sure you’re accurate too). After that, it’s quite easy to input QCF+K on REACTION whenever the MP lands. One (the mp), two (the qcf), then three (the reactionary qcf+mp to activate the super). I don’t know about Ohnuki or John Choi but that’s how I (random guy–> kcxj) pull off the cheap poke into super 100% to the best of my ability.

Ricky has the best N-Chun-li in the US in my opinion. Inspiring me to pick her up in the first place and then being kind enough to teach me like half the stuff I use.

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The only thing about this buffer thing is that you gotta do it REALLY fast…

245

I think the best Chunli goes to John Choi IMO

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The timing is also contraint to Chun-Li’s low strong. If you would read some older posts, Gunter explained that this method is slightly old. I gotta check this out though. Low strong seems somewhat harder to pull off than s.strong.

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while chunli isn’t my tourney char (d.lp-d.lp-d.mp i just can’t do consistently) chunli’s damn fun to use.

anyway, it seems that in cvs2 a lot of normals can be cancelled to supers quite late. ie cancelling normals (medium and heavy) actually gives you more time you think to tag in a super. for chunli, s.hp gives you more than enough time to do the double fireball slowly, see if it’s blocked or not, then hit kick for the super. sorta the same can be said for her s.mp and d.mp but u really have to look out for it (tho s.mp seems harder for me). tho i do find myself feeling a bit itchy sometimes and just hit kick even if the normal is blocked. BUT, i couldve been pot smoking while i found this. i know for certain sagat’s normals (esp d.mk and both fierce) are quite easy to xxSuper late into the normal.

what i don’t understand is this technique choi is using. i really don’t see how it’s possible for the super to come out ONLY if the standing mp hits and not come out if blocked (again, NOT through reaction). i’m fine with my technique atm, but if there’s an easier way (which can leave room in my gaming mind for more tactics in place of really concentrating on reaction) i’ll glad take it. my guess is the person who spoke to choi heard wrong (i so hope he/she’s right tho).

thx for all the other good info. (tho a lot of annoyance with ppl asking questions already answered (ie SBK/traps) ).

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Chun Li is one of my main characters in CvS2, but I haven’t mastered this technique yet. In fact, I haven’t really tried it. :slight_smile: But it is a very powerful technique, and I probably should.

I can’t really explain exactly WHY the situation for Chun Li’s Crouch Strong and Sagat’s Crouch Forward set up this situation so well, but I CAN explain how it works.

Basically, it’s like this: when the enemy is hit, the move that connects freezes a tiny bit in the frame that it’s connecting. However, the freeze is SLIGHTLY longer than the freeze that occurs when the move is BLOCKED. So, let’s think about this. If you throw out a Crouching Strong, only one of four things may occur:

  1. You whiff.
  2. The enemy blocks it.
  3. The enemy gets hit by it.
  4. You trade.

The fourth one doesn’t let you Buffer, so it’s moot. Let’s ignore that case.

Now, every move has a specific frame that can be buffered. Usually, the frame that connects. Some moves give slight leeway and can be Buffered even slightly AFTER the move connects. I’m suspecting that Chun’s Crouch Strong and Sagat’s Crouch Forward fall into this category, which is why they can use this trick, but I can’t be sure unless I’m at home testing it out. In any case, let’s use the following symbols:

…|

  • | Start-up frame.
    X | Hitting frame.
    ? | Post-hit Buffer frame?
    = | Recovery frame.
    |__________________

So I’ll list whiffing, Blocking, and Hitting in a row, below. Remember, this is in REAL-TIME. So I’m not counting the number of frames for each part of the move, I’m indicating how long they last in real-time. When a move connects, remember, the moves freeze for half a second.

|–XX====|
|–XXXX====|
|–XXXXX?==|
|12345678901234567890|

What happens is that you time the button press of your Super to fall on the 7th time-frame in the chart above. If you do it and you whiff, you obviously can’t Buffer. If the enemy Blocks it, it’ll be too late for a Buffer. But if they get hit by it, you’re still in the hitting Bufferable zone, so out comes the Super.

Now, the problem is that almost ALL freeze the exact same amount of time when the move is Blocked or is the move connects. So nowmally, there should be NO lingering time-frame where you can Buffer a move that hit versus a move that got blocked. In other words, if hitting your opponent caused longer freezes, in general, than making your opponent block your move, EVERYONE could utilize this trick. But they can’t, so by the nature of the system in CvS2, this trick shouldn’t work.

For some reason, it works with Chun Li and Sagat (and probably a few more cases). As I said, I can’t explain why, but there is a chance that is might be because there is a recovery frame (where Chun starts to pull her hand away) that IS “Bufferable” only if it hits (indicated by the ‘?’ in the chart above). If that’s the case, that’s where this trick is coming from, and most characters just don’t have this benefit. I have Buffered Chun Li’s Crouch Strong REEEEEEEEALLY late before (it felt like, anyhow). So I’m guessing this is reason why it occurs.

So maybe the chart actually looks like this:

|–XX====|
|–XXXX====|
|–XXXX?===|
|12345678901234567890|

And for some reason, that one extra recovery frame that is Bufferable allows this to happen.

So if you learn to time your button press for the Super at that precise moment 100% of the time, yes, it’ll never come out unless you hit the enemy, and it’ll still Combo. However, needless to point out, this is NOT an easy tactic. Probably takes a lot of practice, but setting Training Mode to randomly Block may help out a lot. Many people here have talked about a VERY good tactic of always Buffering the controller and only finishing the Super motion (and hitting the button) if you see your move connect. But I can guarantee you that is NOT what they are doing. It’s too hard to react like that… almost inhuman. No, there is definitely a trick to it, and I hope I’ve explained it as clearly as I could.

  • James
249

that buffering technique works way easier with sagat than chun li, either his mk or c.fp or whatever

i’m believe this jchensor guy is right (i’m just agreeing with him here), and that’s what makes chun so high maintanence, u have to play her a LOT and therefore, CvS2 a lot to get that timing down.

i HAD THAT TIMING DOWN BEFORE but when i stopped playing seriously i couldn’t do it right with chun so that’s why i hardly use her anymore. it doesn’t matter if your a master of chun in all areas if you can’t do her mp into super really well u might as well not play her

250

In another thread, EX_Matt wrote:

I really don’t use too much variety. I try to keep it fairly simple.

Outside of the corner, I usually go for a Super Jump Roundhouse (which I find is MUCH harder to connect at home than in the arcades… is it just me?). And then I play the standard “Which side will I be on?!?” guessing game when they land and go for another Combo into the Kick Super.

Sometimes I do the headstomp into Jumping Short into Lightning Kick Combo. Whether it crosses up or not, I have trouble controlling, but if the enemy gets hit by it, then I proceed into yet another Kick Super Combo. But more often than not, I end up in the front, which means they CAN DP you if their Reversal Timing is good, so I don’t use this trick a lot.

A lot of the time, I’ll use a Jumping Fierce. But I’ll DELAY the second Jumping Fierce so that it whiffs. Then throw when we both land. Most players won’t expect the second one to whiff, and you two will land almost simultaneously. Risky, but works a lot. Maybe even go for a Crouch Jab Crouch Jab Crouch Strong Combo when you land if the enemy begins to catch on.

If the enemy is in the corner, I can use the above Throw set-up. But my favorite set-up is to do a High Jump Roundhouse after the Super. You land WAY earlier than the enemy, so I throw out a Crouching Jab to whiff as soon as I can. Then, follow that up with the Offensive Crouch + Roundhouse Kick. The Jab whiff makes them think I’m gonna try something when they land. But as soon as they land and try to Throw or hit me with something, I’ll (hopefully) fly over their head and nail them with the Offensive Crouch + Roundhouse. I then follow that up with a Level 1 Kikoshou (if you are in the left corner, do the motion and then wait until they fly over your head before you hit punch, so you do the Kikoshou the other way and catch them after they fly over your head).

If you are far far from the corner, you can do two Fierces after the Super Jump (this time making them both Combo) and land and immediately Low Jump to cross-up. I don’t use this one myself a lot mainly because, well, you are hardly ever that far from the corner after a Level 1 Kick Super and I always forget about it. :slight_smile:

Needless to say, most of these are N-Groove tricks that can be applied to C-Groove. But in C-Groove, I usually use it for Stand Jab x 2 into Stand Short into Level 2 Kick Super, Lightning Kick, Crouch Jab Crouch Strong Level 1. :slight_smile: If I can pull it off. And then I’m out of Supers, so I generally will go for the Throw set-up or just do the Roundhouse and play mind games from there.

  • James
251

Thanx
I play A-chun tho :stuck_out_tongue:
I was just wondering for CC finishers
Cause I cant connect super off mp consistantly
A friend of mine played Choi at Detroit and he said choi had some dirty tricks Im pretty sure u covered them :stuck_out_tongue:

252

damn matt found out the strats…
yes yes, choi rushed me down as he did to everyone else

but now that i know his tricks, maybe i won’t die without knowing how to block. :slight_smile:

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James: Need I say that you can just do a lot of headstomps? If you time the first one really early, once they land, you can get about 2-3 headstomps on the same side or maybe 1-2 on one side and 1 on the other side after. It works well after they get used to getting crossed up after. Also, if I could help you in this aspect… after superjumping, time the headstomp so it plants itself right after the midsection of the character’s body (slightly before that if it’s Cammy, Hibiki or Nakoruru). Generally, this is when you get the crossup version. Once you practice it one or two times, it’s easy. Also, are you any good RC’ing her lightning kicks? Seriously, sometimes I just do a headstomp, land, come down with RC lightning kick (2 hits) and end it up with a super afterwards. It also works coming out of a spinning bird kick.

EX_Matt: James said a lot of stuff, but there’s actually pretty much a whole lot more that Chun can do. That’s why they call her Magneto after a super.

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They do ??
wow that makes my chun li soooo much better!!
I mean calling her magneto. . . Too broken!!

Jur Suck Master:

I found this thread when it started out eric @_@

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jchensor, you legend. Perhaps it’s time you updated your cvs2 faq? :smiley:

In trying to find the the latest time to cancel the d.mp to super (in hoping to match it with my reaction time - or thereabouts) I’ve actually cancelled the d.mp into super so late that it didn’t combo (that was the “sorta” in my previous post). So I’m betting you’re right on the money as to how Ohnuki/Choi/Ortiz perform the technique consistently with a s.mp (which I’m guessing causes a longer hit-stun than the d.mp).

In any case, as I do my super motions as slow as possible, I may have been subconsciously doing your technique for a while because my super doesn’t tend to come out as often when I don’t purposely hit kick upon seeing a blocked d.mp. lol I often wondered why the super didn’t come out (though it could be because I stuffed the motion).

(OT)
In regards to reacting (to normals hitting then super), I tend to notice that CvS2 hit-stuns for normals tend to be slightly longer than previous SFs (jab/short as an obvious example. i.e. With Ryu, it’s much easier to do d.lk, d.lk xx lvl1 super fireball than Alpha2/3). Adding the fact that some normals have very late super cancellable frames, I think it’s very possible to simply react to a hit normal as long as the motion is performed.
(/OT)

Anyway, jchensor, again, great post and thanks, it really helped. And ye, Training Mode with random blocking is the way to practice. Come to think of it, along with it’s most obvious use, perhaps it was also put there specifically for practicing reacting to pokes that hit and the technique you explained.

that is all.

256

Gandido is right. There are way too many options, most of which I don’t use. :slight_smile: For example, there is:

I’ll have to try that out. Thanks. :slight_smile:

I’m not good at RC’ing anything. :frowning: I’ve never bothered to practice it, truth be told. I’ve had a day or two where I practice it with, say, Maki but whenever I play in the arcade in tourneys, I’m so inconsistent with it that I’m scared to actually try it. If I kept trying it, I could probably have gotten good at it, but I so rarely play CvS2 these days (no comp) that I’ve probably forgotten how to do a lot more than just RC.

I should, if anything to include the stuff Gandido pointed out that I was wrong about with my FAQ. :slight_smile: Oh yeah, and to add Hibiki to the Moves list (dunno how she got chopped out) and to add in all the newfound Sai-Rec Juggle stuff that Majestros
and I figured out.

  • James
257

Sairec ???
I remember that site
But could someone post the URL ??
Or tell me were to get some of the vids ??

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The Sai-rec juggles have to do with C-Groove level 2 cancelling. Basically, moves that hat extra commands to them usually juggle more after. Also, if you forget to do a level 2 cancel into anything, some unusual stuff might combo (Kim anti air s.jab into lvl 1 super) or maybe it is if you whiff the cancelling part, I do not know.

Yeah James, it’s about time you put in all that information. Also, add Athena to the after throw juggle list on the Dan/Rolento information. It seems almost anybody can do it now. Even Honda can do it (rh throw).

259

Ok I just tested the trick and couldn’t get it to work. Basically, within record mode, I made Chunli cancel d.mp late enough for it not to combo (but still cancelled of course) thinking that that was late enough. I put my character (also Chunli) on auto block. Anyway, blocked or hit, the super still came out.

Anyway, for s.mp, I’m having a lot of trouble cancelling it late. I was able to cancel it late ONCE by accident, but not in record mode so I couldn’t test it. Anyway. I shall keep trying.

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If you want to know as much s possible about the Sai-Rec Juggle, check out this page:

http://www.sonichurricane.com/articles/cvs2juggle.html

Which one are you referring to? The Throw, activate CC, and then Juggle (like with Maki and Hibiki)? Or the during a CC: Throw, then Juggle situation?

Hrm. I’ll have to test it out myself, see if I can figure out how it works. I dunno when I’ll get a chance to try, but I’ll let you know when I do.

  • James