Critique us thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
21

Ok, since the last time I was given advice, I’ve improved heaps.

Just in terms of numbers, I’ve went from inconsistent 500-1000 PP and stuck at ~3k BP to a consistent 1.5k PP, and a rising 4.5k BP. Yeah, I know these numbers don’t mean much, but I’ve definitely improved a lot, I’m now able to play on an even plane against players who used to destroy me.

However… Since there’s no general “gouken advice thread” and I don’t think what I’m about to ask warrants a thread (since it’s not really gouken specific, either), I’m gonna post it here (i hope this doesn’t derail the thread):

There’s one thing that completely destroys me every single time, and I know it shouldn’t, and that I shouldn’t allow it to happen. But it does. I’m talking about when players do block string --> jump crossup --> block string --> jump crossup --> block string --> etc… They just keep jumping over and over after a few jabs and shorts, rinse and repeat, and I feel completely trapped. Sure, I can block the crossups most of the time, but it’s only gonna lead into another block string --> crossup. It feels like such a stupid strategy that shouldn’t work, and that I should be able to react to this and do something about it, but I end up getting owned by it every single time.

Am I supposed to be able to react to when he stops the block strings and decides to jump? It feels like I’m supposed to jump away or anti-air or dash when I see them stop the block string and start jumping, but right now it feels like my reaction time is too slow for that, so I just end up continuing to block.

I’m a little frustrated right now because I lost a whole bunch of games I should’ve won where I have a massive life lead and my opponent’s down to one last hit, but then they start doing this crap and I can’t seem to react properly to it and just get rolled… So yeah.

I will definitely follow up with some videos of me losing to this (in case you don’t quite understand what I’m talking about), but for now, any sort of advice is appreciated. Thanks.

22

I think every Gouken goes through this.

Use jump back mp xx tatsu. j.mp is a sick air to air. Remember how I told you to focus on EX tatsu until it becomes second nature? Same thing. A person can do it to you once, but you should be able to stop the second one without thinking about it.

23

Doesn’t work…lol but it is funny as hell to do empty backthrows when they are almost dead. I have no shame in torturing my opponents when I can.

24

You are describing the bullshit that is making me quit this game. Truth is that that’s almost everyone’s game plan and even knowing that and training against it I still get blown up. Your reaction really depends on who you are playing…not just the character but also the player. Some options are:

Jump back/forward/neutral mp
Jump back HK
St.hk Try it…just stand up and hit the button. It is counter intuitive at first but knocks damn near everything down that is above you.
EX flip
forward dash (this works surprisingly well if you do it as soon as they jump)
EX tatsu if you are psychic

Once they start doing this and instead of just blockstring to crossup they add in tick throws and then tech-counters…Gouken is a dead man. This is why he is low teir…no reliable, safe get-me-out-of-this-shit move.

25

[media=youtube]tT-Z11OdiAI[/media]
K, this isn’t a match but its me trying to stuff an SRK on wakeup. Did I do this correctly? It seems to me that the Ken might not have done the srk on the first frame of his wakeup cause I got a combo off of it and I have done this a few times. I thought I was doing it fine (with getting the combo) until I looked at phunkism’s videos in which he always gets a reset (not a combo). So…I’m guessing this is wrong but am I doing it too early, too late? I think I’m doing it too late personally.

26

It looks a bit early but it’s really hard to tell. I’ve never really tried stuffing shoto’s after the forward dash… I always use walk forward a bit then hk GFlip. I make sure I’m right above their head and then I press dive kick as soon as they are getting up.

Ryu is the only shoto that I normally reset… I feel like I can stuff or make Ken and Akuma whiff almost every time using that method.

27

What happens if they don’t do anything there? Do you land on the other side and whiff them completely or do you still hit the shoulder? From the last sentence, what I got was that you can combo Ken and Akuma after you stuff their SRKs but you end up resetting Ryu and can’t combo him. Is that correct?

I’m gonna give my way a few tries in training. I think the opponents are probably at fault here allowing me to capitalize but if my way works then we have a pretty solid punish for srk mashers on wakeup. I doubt it but one can hope.

EDIT: I ran a bunch of tests (DASH IMMEDIATELY AFTER THROW) and gave my brother the controller to mash srk on wakeup. No go. The best case scenario was a trade. The way to do it is phunkism’s way. I do believe you can get a combo if you time the jump well enough (so it hits the srk before it leaves the ground I think). Gonna test it further. Of course, if someone knows the answer to this already, I’d be glad to just find out.

In the video I posted above, I paused for a moment and then dashed and HK demon flip. Will test that out as well though it will be difficult to emulate the same exact pause. A jab perhaps?

28

Only Ryu and Sagat reset. Ken nor Akuma can full combo into an Ultra like the other two could in Vanilla.

Edit: I don’t know what Phunkisms way is but after a forward throw I always dash once then HK flip.

29

Not sure 100% about Phunkism’s way either… this is how I’ve done it since Super.

[media=youtube]qRpb7_BXwjU[/media]

I walk forward instead of dash forward b/c it can land as ambig.

30

The way that Iam does it lends it self to making people reversal you since it looks like it can be srked. The benefit of the dash imo is that if you delay the dive kick a bit you can make it so you land on the otherside of him even though he had to block it normal. This leads to free st.hp xx EX punch.

Edit: Also, can we take this to the ask a question thread?

31

I don’t know if that is common knowledge, but I tried yesterday, and I was able to do it from a sweep too.
Just have to wait a split second before demon flipping with Mk (the video quality is terrible, I recorded it from my phone).
Worked with non reversals too.
[media=youtube]Alc3SHKPumQ[/media]

32

From point blank… what about if you hit at max range?

33

I didn’t try from max range, but not from point blank it works as well.
On the video I hit Ken on the back shoulder (crossup maybe?) but I think from a little farther, hitting him on the head will work too.

34

It works from either point blank or close up.

The only untechable knock down Gouken can’t use that set up reliably is after GF Sweep.

35

I don’t know how to beat ken srk reliably if they dont mash reversal and instead delay the mp srk until the last frame. I have a feeling you can’t reliably beat it if they do that. Try not reversalling the srk and see if your setups work

36

If they can delay until the last frame they can hit you out of it if you land front side, so try to position Gouken right above their head. Doing this allows your dive kick to hit as cross up if they try delaying it, you’ll hit them first and make them go into block stun before they can get SRK out.

The only time I’ve really had a problem trading or getting beat clean is my opponent knew what I was doing and started doing crouching DP’s to lower their hit box. (I used to beg for opponents to do this when dive kick was overhead).

But delaying the DP also sets them up for Gouken to bait them with an early set up instead, in most of those cases I’d jump in and EX Flip as soon as I think they will DP and they will whiff and give Gouken max punish. So if they make the 1-2 frame adjustment late you can make the 1-2 frame adjustment early and bait them out. B/C the timing is so strict on both parts, I think we have the advantage on our end b/c we can decide where to place the attack.

You can also time dj lk to stuff reversal and non reversal DP it just does piss poor damage.

37

Between using the “pixel walk” (coined per IAM) and mk flip and hk flip’s respectively you can attack any hitbox ambiguously back and forth and stuff even the most calculated of SRK’s ex or otherwise including the crouch dp’ers. Ive learned thru trial and error that this is his most indispensible move set. I wish I had my cap card to post. There is soo much room in that sweet spot that once the mixup gets going they almost never predict which side to block.

Re: dj.lk , I use this to end fights vs a shoto on wakeup after a sweep , it hits perfectly on top , doesnt do major damage, but will end a fight because they always dp a jumping normal to try and comeback for the win.

38

So I finally got around to recording and uploading a few of my matches.

Once again, these matches are losses only; some where I feel I do decently, and some where I just get straight up destroyed for the most part at least.

I feel like I play much more patient now compared to before (see previous videos) but I do some mistakes like not reacting correctly to an open opportunity for damage, and failing to keep the pressure going when I have the advantage (execution fail etc see bison matches). There’s also stuff like not knowing the opponent’s mixups/resets (see sakura games) and how to deal with her jab pressure.

I also get desperate a couple times here and there (wake up ultra).

From my play, are there any Gouken set ups that I’m missing but would be very good for me to incorporate into my play? Do I make any mistakes with the current set ups I use? What are some of the glaring mistakes in my current playstyle?

But yeah, I look forward to some criticism and advice on how to step up my game.

vs bison 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DriIsfZcNw

vs bison 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh05zERAfKI

vs sakura 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj3-cSmBWkc

vs sakura 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbYfmozs0X8

vs sakura 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOa6ue6o58E

thanks

39

  1. More backthrows

  2. Don’t be predictable with jump back>fireball after a blockstring. It will burn you, especially against Bison.

3)cr.lk is my new favorite move after cl.st.mp. Use it to slip under attacks, to stop their momentum, to frame trap with a sweep…

4)Keep the momentum going. Watch the second round of Sakura 2. You were BEASTING on her for 75% of her life because she was guessing incorrectly. Then, she guesses right once and you go into turtle mode. Turtle mode is a no-no against rush down characters. Learn how to put distance between yourself and the other guy so you can quickly reset a situation and stop their momentum and begin your charge.

5)Stop using hp palm so much. It’s crap in the situations you are using it in. Mp palm is more successful after an anti air fb. Hp palm is good for punishing akuma’s air fireball, a full screen predicted ken fireball… Sakura 2 again…2nd round…you forced her to do an unsafe ex shoryuken…you had her dead but you missed that slow ass hp palm. You probably could have killed her with a hado, you could have dashed to mp.palm, or ex flip

40

@Radio Gamma, I only saw your first Bison video yet. It seems like you lost most of your life to throws. An easy way to watch out for throws is to watch the opponent’s feet, if they are a little more than throw distance away from you. They’ll drop their jab jab combo and start walking. If you see their feet walk forward expect a throw and tech accordingly. This obviously doesn’t work where they are close enough to grab you when they are putting you in a block string but it works in cases where they are further. You got thrown a few times from the latter range. You can interrupt it by teching or you can do c.MP or c.LP most of the time if they are far enough.

Other than that, when you get an untechable knockdown against bison, rush his ass down. It’s tough when he has meter but know that he has no anti air moves from the ground. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t safe jump him when he has meter but what it means is that if he doesn’t have meter and you get an untechable knockdown, you are free to jump on him however you choose.

The key to beating bison is to rush him when he doesn’t have meter even if it does not comprise of safejumps and rush him with safejumps when he does have meter. From my experience that seems to be the case anyway. Let me see if I can find a bison replay. Know that I’m not claiming that I’m better than you in anyway. I just think you are approaching the matchup a little incorrectly.

EDIT: Here, I found one against a decent Bison. The whole thing about throws, watch at 1:43 for that. He’s walking forward when he could be jabbing or c.LKing me. and I just throw out a jab and c.MP i think. Watch his inputs as he does that, he wants to throw.

I’m obviously not perfect and I get thrown a few times in this match but not as much. Hm, I dropped a few things and got a high kongo when I was trying to do c.HP cause I crossed up and didn’t realize it haha. Anyway, this is generally how I play against Bison.
[media=youtube]Dw82RK0aQ2c[/media]