This thread is open for all completely crazy ideas. Here’s the lowdown, and I’m sure all Cammy players are already aware of it:
Cammy is strong. She’s strong in a straightforward basic way that involves relentless pressure and ambiguousness galore. People are pissed, both the haters of Cammy and the true fans of Cammy. It ruins the fun of someone who genuinely enjoys Cammy but has to deal with the crap of everyone reminding them how Cammy is not a fair character. The thing I hate the most is when people drop a character they love simply because they get sick of all the hate surrounding that character. With this in mind, I created this thread solely for discussing any crazy overhauls to Cammy. Don’t worry about balance if you don’t want to, just discuss ideas.
My ideas and reasoning:
Back in Vanilla SF4, I was super interested in Cammy. She was on my top list of characters to play. However when I tried her out I was dissapointed. Spin knuckle and hooligan throw were weak and too situational in my eyes. She changed from seaming like a complex creative character to seeming like a straightforward divekick style character.
If I were to overhaul Cammy, I would completely overhaul spin knuckle and hooligan throw. I would make those way more integral to her fighting style and I would nerf her current style of cannon strike hell. I just look back to SFII where she didn’t even have canon strike!!! Yea, the move that defines her in SF4 didn’t even freakin exist in her original SFII incarnate. Her other moves were way more strong in SFII because of that. I want Cammy back to how she was in SFII dammit!!!
Cannon Spike less blockstun and hitstun, slightly more startup, EX cannon spike less blockstun but nothing else changed, nerf her normals slightly (not talking big nerfs, maybe damage or some of the blockstun reduced, id be happy if both but i wouldnt think thatd be too fair), and if unblockables are removed (though thats not a Cammy specific change) then theres no real reason anyone should complain about her.
If any cammy player really cares about what other scrubs think then they should really just don’t play her at all. I don’t give a flying f**k if I keep getting hatemails. I get them with Juri, Ibuki and even Yang lately (HURRR ITS ALL ABOUT RESETS YOU SCRUB) anyway.
Also this game isn’t the same as SF2. Why don’t we remove the focus attacks, backdashes, vortex, fadc combos or just take SF2 and update the graphics ?. Such bullshit.
Now if you don’t like her because she is too straight forward thats bad for you. You got basically a wrong first impression of Cammy and you obviously don’t like that she is pretty straight forward which is in your opinion completely wrong since she has 2 moves which make her look technical (lel) and now you wish that Capcom would change her complete metagame in a balance update after the game has been released for 4 years.
Despite the popular opinion that shes a cheap bitch with easy unblockables (cammy unblockables off spiral arrow = not even ambiguous safe divekicks to prevent dem shoryukenz) I personally think that once you have to play someone who is really good it becomes really fundamental but before this happens you have to find decent people. Cammy literally rapes scrubs of all kinds which I am completely ok with. I don’t want to respect the characters I am playing against but the players. I like to cut down the randomness thus why I really enjoy her (and Ibuki).
Also I am curious on how you want to buff her Hooligan in a way that doesn’t make it completely broken but useful at the same time. Like Akumas Demon Flip ? Yes please and hard knockdowns after Spiral Arrows too…
SBF is used for getting through fireballs so I don’t get what the problem is with this move. It also can be used as a meaty against various characters and completely removes their options besides blocking.
So in the end I do think that she is broken to some extent simply because of unblockables but same applies to any character with unblockables like Gen, Evilryu, Sakura, Ibuki, Yang(vsFei), Blanka(vsGuile) etc.
Just decrease her stun and damage slightly and give her less frames on her EX TKCS and a few normals and obviously get rid of the unblockables and shes a fine character. There shouldn’t be a height restriction for the EX TKCS though since it cost’s 1 Bar (and Rufus can just spam dives all day)
Have you played Cammy a lot in SFII HD remix? The level of strength for her spiral arrow, spin knuckle, and hooligan throw can be seen in that game. When Capcom decided to make her a cousin to the divekick characters, they pretty much destroyed who she was. If you and the rest of the SF4 Cammy players are happy with the current divekick version of Cammy, then whatever.
I’ve noticed you made a mistake in a couple of threads. This is no big deal, but cannon spike is her DP, not her divekick.
As for the thread, buffing hooligan to grab crouching opponents would be as spammable as her current divekick. Spin knuckle is worthless in the neutral game, including as a reaction to a fireball.
I’m not sure what I would do to nerf Cammy. She has no overhead, short throw range, can be spaced easily enough if we’re just talking the ground game, and gets all of her bonecrushing combos by starting off with divekick. The divekick is the cornerstone that holds the character together, you can’t really mess with it. It makes just as much sense to remove Gief’s command grabs and just say “eh, we’ll put something else in here to fix it”, even if you give him a new, really good tool to replace it, the character is probably unviable because he’s built around command grabs.
Look. Cammy’s cornerstone does not have to be her divekick if Cammy players don’t want it to be. Simple as that. Yes, it does mean overhauling her but thems’ the breaks. If Cammy players are truly happy with her cornerstone being that of a divekick character, then there’s really not much to change for her besides some minor tweaking to frames here and there. If they are curious about a completely different style of Cammy play, then look to SFII HD Remix to see how Cammy would play without having a divekick. I don’t think her hooligan throw grabbed crouchers. But I do believe it comes out really fast in SFII HDR!
… I see I just opened up a huge undertaking for myself. I might be continually editing this post to describe the type of character Cammy would be to still be powerful while having a very nerfed divekick. I’ll be experimenting with her in SFIIHDR to see how she plays there and I’ll post what I find here.
please take your suggestions elsewhere. if you dont play the character/sorry you have no right to tell us how Cammy should be. some of us been playing her since vanilla and we already been through an OVERHAUL in AE.
hooligan grab is a gimmick and a useless move outside… of… gimmicks. SBF is useless in 99% of the matches.
this reminds me of the stupid people who requested strike from hooligan… the most useless move in SFxT. lolol hooligan startup + strike startup. i wonder whos the retard that will get hit by it. and even if you get hit its not comboable into anything (only if it hits by the very tip of her boot. 1f link into crlk). if you block its horribly punishable. = useless.
please cammy posters ignore this thread!. i will request mods to lock this thread. it has potential to be like the previous ones (flame wars)
Another useless post. If you had read my comments you would see I’m not trying to force Cammy players to be something they don’t want to be. The only way this thread turns into flame wars is if people such as yourself yell at others to prevent them from thinking freely in this thread.
Edit: On a more positive note I competely agree with you about the sad state of hooligan grab and SBF. SFxT seemed to experiment with allowing a cannon strike from hooligan. I have barely fought any Cammy characters who bothered to employ this tactic in SFxT so I guess I’ll take your word that it’s not so good. In any case, hooligan being a complete gimmick and SBF being useless in 99% of matches is unacceptable in my eyes for Cammy. She supposed to be a specially trained assassin, it doesn’t seem like 2 of her core specials she be useless or just gimmicky.
Yo, last post for this thread; it’s not my place to be discussing a character I don’t use. I just want to encourage all true Cammy fans out there to play her in SFII HD Remix just to get a feel for her. The sole purpose is to help you see what she would play like if she didn’t have her Cannon Strike. When Sirlin was balancing SF II to make HD Remix, he significantly buffed Cammy in an attempt to make all her specials viable.
I don’t want Cammy’s Cannon Strike to be removed. But I’d like it toned down somehow to where the rest of her specials could be significantly buffed and she would feel more like a complete Cammy rather than just a dive kick character attempting to masquerade as Cammy.
Sorry for pissing people off. Believe me, I wouldn’t be saying this stuff if i didn’t have a ton of respect for Cammy. Her neck-breaker scene in SF II the Animated Movie is one of the coolest scenes in it.