i ve just talked with my pysch teacher mr. cen, and he s basically telling me exactly what you just said, i guess i ve been close minded about that area…thanks
sorry for the shiet
Look at APOC throwing down OLD SCHOOL logic.
Keep it up bud. Ill see you at evo and we can smoke out. Me with my pipe and you with your “special” pipe.
Amen. Jason, I better see you in Vegas > < b.
JP
I was gonna lay down the law but Apoc just said everything I was gonna :tup:.
Only thing I’d add is about crowd noise;
- Some people actually LIKE the crowd going off. It’s not necessarily a disadvantage.
- Even if it IS deemed a disadvantage, deal with it. The other guys has to. I bet you if an NBA player blamed his potential-game-winning missed free-throw on the crowd distracting him, he’d be laughed he hell outta the league.
Again with all this shit that just doesn’t ‘suite’ you, deal with it. The other guy has to as well so there’s hardly an imbalance. Only place I draw the line at is when you have to deal with something you can’t help and the other guy DOESN’T. Namely mofo’s grabbing your shoulders trying to get a better look at the screen whilst you play. In which case knock them the f*** back, that shit doesn’t fly with me :bluu:.
No need to apologize. We all appreciate the games for different reasons. It’s just a perspective. My first experience on a H2H was over 10 years ago facing Watson and not knowing. I won but, I knew it was because he was unable to utilize his full potential. It just wasn’t as real to me. However, I’ve known plenty that regard H2H as the better set up.
heheh I wasn’t trying to “lay down the law.” I was just explaining my point of view but I must admit that is is frustrating to know that some feel something is better simply because the Japanese do it. I don’t get that logic but, you were making valid points from the other side. I just don’t want you to doubt your perspective if it’s honest, ya know?
Apoc.
someone mentioned my scrubby name so i had to post…
i liked playing on h2h cabinets better than being right next to the oppnent. its becomes less about the player and more about there character. plus u have alot of elbow room to do whatever the hell u want and the screen is right in your face and u have a center seat view for it. not a second or first player view that can be skewed if your opponent has a wider frame than u do.
maybe if there was a way to have your own tv set up but have your own chair and screen to view while u compete instead of sharing a screen.
As long as my opponent isn’t hitting my elbows, play on.
having two players staring at the same screen in a beat 'm up is basicly the same as having two players staring at the same screen in a first person shooter.
I would prefer not sitting next to my opponent, because I really don’t wanna give away what I’m doing(in an fps this is even far more obvious then in a beat 'm up).
And if strangers are pushing me while I’m in a match they’re gauranteeing themselves a broken nose(at least). In the FPS scene people nearly always head over to eachother after the match if they’re on a LAN, even if they’re across the hall(1000+ LAN) so I don’t see a H2H changing that custom at all… (unless you’re all fat lazy bastards)
I think for Evo’s sake it might be handier to use arcade cabinets anyways, since people then can leave their stick at home. People with a very special stick or with a gamepad are screwed in that case though.
I also think buying extra TVs for H2H is pointless, there’s a moment where at least half of the players won’t play anymore. And at that moment you can rehook some TVs and TADAA! H2H!
Actually, they are nothing alike. FPS relies heavily on sneaking up on people, surprise attacks, and the enemy not knowing where you are. Also, for FPS, everyone has their own unique view.
In a fighting game, you ALWAYS know where you opponent is, and you both share the EXACT SAME VIEW. The comparison is not a good one, IMO.
I personally enjoy playing next to my opponent. Gives it more of a sense of immediacy and makes the match much more personal.
- James
Arr. You’re both retarded. Happy?
When playing next to someone, I rely heavily on metagame. I literally super right when I hear buttons, and it works out pretty well. Sometimes it’s spooky. If you can do this, it helps immensely on that sort of setup against someone who doesn’t know how to manipulate that type of gameplay.
On head-to-head, you just have your onscreen opponent to deal with. You can’t catch peripheral stick movement or errant button taps, so you can only rely on your knowledge of the characters and the people using them. Does this guy uppercut on wakeup? Is this move safe to attack after? It’s all dependent on the common behaviours of the opponent and your ability to adjust on the fly.
Both use different skills, but you can’t really make a case for either outside of personal preference.
EXCEPTION! As kofiend stated, J-wo shaking the entire building with his jumping up and down and mashing the stick while Daigo was parrying is complete bullshit, and would never be a problem on a h2h cab. He does that shit every time, I remember JR Rodriguez doing the exact same thing in the exact same situation a year before, but because it was on a standard cab it shook the whole works and fucked up the parrying.
N - I prefer h2h, even though I can’t super just because I heard buttons. But I’m not oldschool, so it prolly doesn’t count.
I don’t think listening for inputs or looking at someone’s hands really gives too much of an advantage. From what I’ve noticed, everyone is double or triple tapping everything now, so listening for inputs might do more harm than good. I’ve tapped the cabinet next to the buttons to bait button listeners…I guess it’s just another thing to deal with. Everything can be dealt with, aside from some guy shanking you or pushing you off the seat, but at that point you’d expect a judge to intervene.
As for the hands, if you’re really quick enough to glance at my hands, accurately guage what I’m going to do, and then react to counter what I end up doing, bravo. Don’t forget, a lot of shit randomly comes out, so what my hands look like they’re going to do, and what actually happens might not be the same. Tricky.
Being next to your opponent makes it a real battle. You can feel them breathing, hear the anxiety in their button tapping, sense the excitement in their body language…it gives you a read on them, like you would in a real fight.
It also brings psychology into the match. If you’re rushing someone down you can intimidate them into making more mistakes, keeping up the pressure. Slapping the buttons harder, raising up in your seat…there are all sorts of things that play on the human mind when you sit down at the cabinet.
Besides, as far as Evo is concerned, it’s already gonna take an obscene amount of equipment to run as is. Making it head to head would add equipment costs, not to mention increasing space requirements. I think a lot of us are already paying as much as we can afford to attend, and having to pay more to have less of a fight isn’t worth it, imo.
BTW, James - nice signature.
When I’m talking about FPS I’m not talking about CS, sneaking up on people isn’t a commonly used tactic. A good FPS player can already tell where his opponent is so there is no surprise there. What people want to hide in a FPS is their health meter , armor meter and ammo meters, since it shows a lot more(like where he as been and where he’s gonna be).
In a beat 'm up you don’t wanna show what you’re gonna do in any form and that’s where h2h comes in handy.
“Everything can be dealt with, aside from some guy shanking you or pushing you off the seat, but at that point you’d expect a judge to intervene.” Like I said, my fist will be intervening a lot sooner:P
And Leezy: you should focus on not having random shit come out:P It would be fun for me to see you planning a hadouken and instead doing a shoryuken. That means I can hop in for a free combo.
Yeah…my team really doesn’t throw projectiles all that often, not in a position where you’d be able to hit me anyway. I suppose watching the hands of most players would give you some sort of advantage…but K players typically don’t do much in terms of specials and whatnot until they know it’s going to hit anyway. It wouldn’t do you too well to watch me cannon spike you out of the air, 'cause it would happen regardless of which direction you were looking. Hmm…maybe watching me try to JD something…I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem like too much of an advantage. Plus, the risk of taking your eyes off the screen isn’t worth the reward. I suppose if you can look at the screen and my hands at the same time, and still have your brain process the information coherently, you’ll anticipate my next move…and have freakish eyeballs.
I think the input watching/listening is much more relevant in SF games as opposed to CvS2.
Example, if you fake out a FB with Ryu, and they try to pick up on it, they jump, you dp, there in the same situation again is he gonna fb or dp. Thats where fb’s were actually dangerous, block it and your in trouble, get hit your in trouble. CvS there isnt much risk in blocking FB, hence no reason to jump. Just an example.
Tell me what 720 character is relevant to high level play in a meter using capacity. Or then howabout that the entire original point that you can use fakouts, in ALL of those situations?
Akuma whiff air rh, all of the RD motion except hp, they jump, you dp/super/j. hk/whatever
Hugo dashes, you do 720 motion they jump and you do the AA grab
Better with Gief, you act like your doing 720 then you do lvl 3 AA grab, ouch
If they’re going to grab wakeup electricity, do like your doing elec then wakeup super
If you can give something away by your opponent hearing it, then you can automatically fake it, what Apoc is saying is that is an extra level of the game that you dont get with H2H. I agree, H2H is not as intense, and should not be what competitive fighting games are.
Not to mention that they are a blatent waste of resources, ESPECIALLY on console, where its a complete triviality, since you arent completely side by side anyways.
Anyone who seriously is asking for evo to be on H2H(or for H2H to be used more than a few places in US) is living in fantasy land, and should come back to the real world before they get lost forever.
EDIT: Poker example is flawed, it’d be more like if the opponent notices that when you do X action its followed by Y play, you can flip it by doing a different play with that action.
Right, the convincing issue is that H2H isn’t proven enough IMO to even start thinking about the equipment shortage issue, even if evo staff agrees that it’s a good idea, then the equipment shortage issue is there as back up.
In addition, my impression from the players is that the priorities are: 1) get cvs2 to run on time, then 2) get cvs2 to run 2/3 AND on time, then 3) do other crazy stuff. While things can be improved, improving only goes so far
If someone wants to set up some H2H consoles in the BYOC room and have ppl try them out maybe there would be some feedback for other tournaments. But noone really seems to be doing this right now, noone is getting a 2nd TV and putting their ps2 h2h that i’ve seen. I would think that if H2H was a lot better, people would be using it even if they didn’t own japan H2H cabs, similar to the way people get sanwa sticks that don’t own any cabinets of any kind.