Cyclops doesn’t really fight Storm/Sent that well. Honestly, if all things are even, Cable/Sent fights Storm/Sent better. Call drones and tigerknee viper beam really fucks with Storm/Sent rush. And if you get into trouble, you can use jump jab and grenades to bail you out fairly reliably. It’s a match that doesn’t seem to work, but it does if you’re disciplined.
Cyclops does decent on Storm if she doesn’t have drones. Her low roundhouse still messes up Cyke’s keepaway patterns.
And yes, Felicia beats Strider. More accurately, Felicia with two meters and Sentinel or a good AAA beats Strider (otherwise, Strider can jump in with early fierce). Basic rushdown chain into sandkick leaves Strider hardpressed to respond, since he can’t use jumanji or orbs unless he makes you block. The best thing Strider can do in this match is to play mind games with the teleport, and you can’t even do that if your opponent has Eye of the Tiger!!!
Sentinel messes up Felicia, but Doom doesn’t really. Rolling buckler > jump fierce, and stand roundhouse beats Doom’s everything.
When I start Cyke on Cyke/Strider/Doom against Storm/Sent/Cyke, Cyke’s job against Storm/Sent really isn’t to win. It’s to keep from losing. I know firsthand that for Cyke, Storm and Storm/Sent are two different matches. But unless the third assist is blackheart or to a lesser degree, commando, it makes Cyke’s job even easier. Cyke can maybe land a few hits here and there and when he’s in the right position, DHC. Overall, Cyclops just can’t fight Storm on the ground anymore when she has Sentinel. So he has to either stall by running away or maybe fight it out in the air(kind of risky since you could run into LAxxLS).
I’m one of the few posters on this forum who can actually play Felicia well, and I can confidently say that Felicia kills StriDoom. Strider can’t do jack shit to Sand Splashes + AA except teleport, and teleports can be on-reaction Hyper Sand Splashed if you have meter. And Felicia is never hurting for meter, she’s one of the fastest builders in the game.
felicia CAN beat strider, i never said she couldnt but i dont really think he is handicapped in this fight any more than he is in other fights. she dont really make him have to alter his game much at all besides watch for sandsplash (AHVB is 10x more frightening). characters like sent/aa on point, cable with meters, storm/sent, mag/psylocke. they really alter the way you play strider. against felicia you can still do whatever the hell you want, you can warp anytime you want, if youre smart you can start orbs when you want. if shes pressuring you , you can simply just block. what can she really do if you just hold db and push block her and jump out? nothing really . strider can meet any characer in the game attack for attack if theyre in his range. at the start of a round striders jump jab actually beats out any jumping shit magneto throws out. drones dont even matter to strider, he can teleport around them, double jump over them or simply go under them and meet felcia head on . or he can meet her in the air, it really doesnt matter. just fight using the sentinel assist and when you got your opportunties to start orbs use them. all that shit felicia can do is answered by BLOCKING theres no cross ups there. just be patient and push her ass off you , the pressure and chip youre going to be dishing out is much more than any shit she can throw at you. warp in and attack with assists. if she wants to sand splash sentinel go ahead it’ll take about 6-7 sand spashes to kill his fat ass lol. not to mention strider can safely tag in sentinel from orbs anytime he feels like it to completely wreck that ass :evil:
in other words, strider has alot of options to play. when a character flat out beats another character, there are very few options.
the best felicia based team vs strider would have to have storm backing her, to allow her to hurt doom assist with dhc. either way, cable or doom on point are much better at achieving this goal and are better overall characters.
Sandsplash is more dominating than AHVB for several reasons:
sandsplash goes under bird. Prolly most important thing. Cable’s attempts to shoot Strider are too often nerfed by the bird.
sandsplash is instant. If you’ve done the QCF motion and you see Strider point his finger or begin to fade out, hit KK and he is owned. Cable requires the werewithal to quickly QCF,UF+PP and it’s not always easy to decide whether Strider is warping or just jumping and shoot him that quickly.
sandsplash hits all along the floor, so even if you do fuck up and Strider teleports, you at least have a chance to cross him up.
As long as Felicia never jumps, she’s always a threat to Strider, and if she has the right help (Sentinel or AAA) she never has to.
Only way to start orbs safely is to do it while she’s blocking drones. In this case, Felicia having Sentinel is the best way to go because as long as you keep drones coming, you never have to worry about them getting in the way of the sandsplash. However, she can still hide behind a moderately tall assist (Blackheart) or one that goes out in front of her and stays near the floor (Cyclops) and still be able to splash Strider for whatever he does.
If Strider warps right on top of Felicia, a s.roundhouse generally takes care of things, although I wouldn’t count on it. The best response to a warp if you can do it is to call drones.
That’s true, Felicia can’t do much on her own to make Strider do stuff, but compared to what Strider can do safely, it’s all she needs. As long as you stay disciplined and don’t try to get cute, Felicia can force mistakes.
This is why IMO Felicia/Sentinel/AAA (preferably Cyclops) is the best configuration to take on a Strider-reliant Strider/Sent/Doom player. If you keep drones on screen to match Strider’s drones, Strider has a lot less opportunities to get you to block them. Meeting Felicia in the air is irrelevant since she should never jump, and standing roundhouse has some stupid Marvel priority (consistent trades with Strider’s jumping attacks). When you start getting more advanced, you can start using guard cancels to REALLY mess with Strider and give him even less opportunities to start orbs.
Trick is to not force too much, and if you mess up and need to block, that’s fine. Strider has to keep that shit going for so long whereas all Felicia usually needs is two clean shots to win, plus if you have Cyclops/Ken/Cable you always have counter in your backpocket.
You can only pressure and chip if you get Felicia to block Sentinel’s first drone. Otherwise, Strider can’t do ANY of his pressure starters safely.
Felicia should NEVER sandsplash Strider’s assists. Never. That’s just a waste, unless you have a good chance of killing that assist. Course, there’s still that safe tag, AND there’s always just flat out tagging in Sentinel without really caring either way. What can Felicia do to damage Sent?
I don’t think Felicia teams beat Strider teams. I think Felicia has enough direct counters to common Strider tactics that you can use her to beat phoney baloney Sents and keep the real Strider players honest. That’s good enough, plus it throws some variety in for the players who want to take that route. It might become more necessary when Strider gets more popular.
Felicia’s goal isn’t to kill Doom anyway, it’s to kill Strider. IMO best teams are Felicia/Sent/Cyclops or Felicia/Sent/Cable. Or vs. Sent/Strider/Doom, Sent/Felicia/Cable or Cable/Felicia/Cyclops.
well id love to see someone sandsplashing everything i do on reaction lol and when that day comes i will say hands down felicia beats strider, but ive played good feclias and i never seen anything close to this. in fact, im going to say its impossible to do it on reaction to striders warp. theres almost no signs of his warp, he has a duck animation (which is why he can warp on cable standing gun shot on reaction) then he fades. and once he begins to fade its already too late to hit him. you dont get crossed up on the way down either, you can double jump from warp so if you ever feel unsafe about how youre landing you can always warp then jump away. you can always position yourself to start orbs on felicia with doom or sent assist, warping is key. warp around her assist and call your own, and you can start anything you want. you have to get away from throwing dogs at the end of chained strings but you cant do that on cable either so im used to not leaving openings . no way sandsplash is better than ahvb vs strider, birds dont get in cables way much you can shoot the birds, you cant shoot the bombs though. the reason why ahvb is deadlier is because anytime doom is left unprotected hes dead. and thats pretty much game over. cable should be looking to shoot doom more than actually strider himself, you just need to hit one of the two to win the match up. id like to play some more felicas just to see more on how it plays out, cause i havent yet fought against one i was scared of. and viscant dont count cause he beats me with pretty much any team :mad:
omega red is a nasty sob on strider, omega strikes , strider has no answer for. underground coil, omeda strike combos when you try to warp +his assists and then he can pressure you while building tons of meter. basically, its not safe to come forward or warp, so you have to jump at him, where omega can change his omega strike from straight forward to an angle to thwart you from coming in, not pretty :lol:
the day felicia can sandsplash anything on reaction is the day Sakura becomes undisputedly #1 in the game with teleports and Cable becomes #2 by AHVBing everything on reaction. By then, we’ve all become perfect players and marvel is fun no more. But either way, I’d treat Sand Kick and AHVB with around the same caution. Sand kick can be done at closer range when i start orbs than AHVB. If cable tries to shoot my orbs within a 3rd of screen range, he gets knocked out.
Anyway, I’ve also had my share of felicia players. Sure, they force me to change my game plan. But it’s a fight i can still win. The only felicia player who has beaten my strider clean was Jamaal. And that was before evo2k2, when i knew next to nthing about the fight. Also, he had Tron. :bluu:
Speaking of Omega Red, I actually had to play an Omega Red player at evo this year. He wasn’t bad. But it was one of those fights i had come prepared for. I just started cyclops at point and out zoned him on the ground and flash kicked him anytime he super jumped. By the time i brought strider in, OR was too weak to really abuse his options, forcing him to DHC to cable or die.
LOL, Tron is Felicia’s best friend! Under most circumstances, my Felicia team is Felicia (var)/Tron/Sent-y. I only use Felicia (grnd)/Cable/Cyke against StriDooms.
I have to say that I’m quite impressed by Dasrik’s knowledge of Felicia. I know Dasrik knows his MvC2 shit, but still… DAMN! Props.
I have to make a rebuttal to this, however. One, Felicia can HSS Doom. I agree that HSSing Sent is stupid, but Doom takes a solid amount of damage and can be killed in 3. At the very least, land two and you won’t see Doom again for a while. Two, Strider random tagging to Sent is stupid. Felicia can snap Strider back in and now both he and Sent have lost all their red. Felicia could counter tag to Cable. Or, Felicia can PHM! Sent, then tag to Cable at the end. At any rate, a random tag to Sent is stupid.
As for the overall topic at large, I think this basically comes down to you’ve never played expert Felicias and I’ve never played expert StriDooms. Us talking between each other won’t change anyone’s mind.
believe me. Jamaal Bowie is one hell of a Felicia expert and used to bring her out very often in tournies. Now, he just prefers his Blackheart when it comes down to crunch time.
As of lately, there have been a large amount of people playing the team of Mags/Cable/Sent.
For me, the only person out of the big 4 that I use is Storm, but she usually can’t hold her own against most other good people’s characters. Just a hint that I need a lot of work.
Anyways, I use Cammy/Chun-Li/Psylocke since they are my best three together, and I know that they are not the best of a counter team for Mags/Cable/Sent, but I have had success with them. Would any of you have any suggestions for how I can more effectively handle them and other top-tier teams?
I already know that I’ll be mocked to high heaven for using these three, particularly Chun-Li, but until I can try learning other new characters, these three are my safest bet. Any help is appreciated.
I know you’ve probably heard this a million times, but learn top tier. In my experience, 90% of the low tier characters will still need at least on good Top Tier at their back. I suggest Sentinel. His ground assist is a pretty universal assist that every character can make some use of. He’s overall the most versatile character in the game.
At the very least, you should add some sort of cover assist to that team of yours. It’s a very rushdown oriented team, and every character there would benefit. Sent-y, Doom rocks, or even Gambit projectile would help you greatly. Or you could just go with the universal equalizer, Tron projectile.
The duck animation you refer to is the signal… and yes, you CANNOT input QCF+KK on reaction to that. However, you CAN end all your pressure chains with an empty QCF, wait to see if Strider begins to teleport and hit KK on reaction to that. It’s a variation of an old school tactic (psychic DP).
If you can’t warp on reaction to teleport, you can definitely call AA (and that’s where AA comes in handy); alternately, you can call drones at the end of pressure chain so that if Strider teleports he’ll have to block drones.
I’ve seen way too many times Cable scrubs try to shoot Strider as soon as they get free only to get beaned by/have to block the bird. Your comp is probably used to the bird so they don’t try to get blood from a turnip. Felicia doesn’t care how close the bird is, she can always sandsplash.
Well, that is of course a plus to Cable; if he gets a clean shot he’ll kill Doom. Then again you can do something similar by playing Felicia/xx/Cable, since Felicia is building a lot of meter on Strider who can’t do much, you can build 5 meters and then attempt to counter in Cable for a trade, try to bean Doom and then shoot him down. (BTW, the commonly accepted counter for this doesn’t work. Strider has to excalibur way early and it’s easy to see this coming and dash forward and shoot Strider instead.)
Zaza can beat Strider/Doom players pretty consistently with Felicia/Jin/Ken, but one could use the same logic My Felicia is okay, but I’m not experienced enough against StriDoom, I only know theory. But in the few times I’ve applied the theory it’s worked extremely well.
I’m pretty sure jump fierce beats omega strike, but you have to time it. Strider has to do a standard rush on OR, and if you don’t feel confident of beating strike with jump fierce, jump in and block, then call Doom so he lands on it. If he tries to hit Doom away, you can launch him fairly easily.
Thanks for the remarks, and yeah, this now makes it a million and one…
I want to keep Chun-Li and Psy for sure. Chun-Li may be really low-tier, but she is one of the only characters in the game that fits my style of play really well (along with Psylocke).
I might try learning Gambit or even Rogue. Just a couple of ideas to cosider for myself out loud.
I was reading some of the earlier posts and someone mentioned that Scrub and Santhrax are about equal. Has that matchup changed now? I can’t see how, if both players are about equal, Santhrax would lose. I don’t know how you’re supposed to start these teams in this matchup, but I usually see Cable vs. Storm at the beginning. Obviously, Cable almost always gets owned. So, could someone explain this? I’m not biased (I play both teams regularly), but I’m just curious.
Also, does Santhrax have ANY bad mathcups? Even like a 6-4?
Scrub starts Sent against Storm in my experience. I still don’t think Scrub > or = Santhrax though. It does force an adjustment, but it’s just that, an adjustment.
My counter is Storm/Sent/Cable. I don’t know what top players will think of that, but Storm vs. Storm is nearly an even match at the beginning. Once meters go above 2, if I hit her storm it dies and I have Cable left to cope with Sent/Capcom. If I get hit and die, I have 4-5 meters and Cable still on the bench, which is about the best comeback scenario I could hope for.
Anyway, IMO, Scrub and Santhrax is kind of a random match. Cable should counter Sentinel since he has drones AND CapCom. Then again, Storm outright counters Cable, undoubtedly. :bluu:
Does it just come down to who has the better Sent/CapCom? I would think so.
Storm doesn’t hard counter cable. Storm v Cable is around 6-4, because Cable doesn’t really have any way to catch her running away, but with the lead, Cable has the tools to keep her away. Keep her away better than he can Mags anyways.
That’s true about the keepaway. But 6-4 seems a little modest. Perhaps 7-3? Whenever Cable throws a grenade, I go for short short LA XX LS. That right there is enough reason for me to favor Storm over Cable. I always see Cable’s keeping Storm away for awhile and then barely slipping up and paying for it. That damn combo is too good.
If Cable has drones, I have a tough time getting around them with Mags yet a significantly easier time with Storm.
On a good Cable, there’s really no way you’re going to connect a short, short xx LA XX LS when they’re throwing a grenade. Good Cables let go of grenades right above their head, essentially negating any attack coming from above them/45 degrees from them. In the same respect as you said, one small slip up with Storm and she gets shot. Also, Cable’s jump jab is retarded, beats Storm’s jump short, and combos into 3xAHVB.
Hmm, I know that I always throw TK grenades right in front of Cable, especially against Mags. I think my local comp. doesn’t place grenades as well as they ideally should. :bluu:
I’ll address individual issues…
My Felicia is okay, but I’m not experienced enough against StriDoom, I only know theory. But in the few times I’ve applied the theory it’s worked extremely well.