Consolidated Q&A for Sagat: 30+ questions answered!

[m2dave]

Please, before you read any of this, familiarize yourself with the game’s basic gameplay elements. Know what FADC, meaty attacks, cross ups, kara cancels, etc. are.

With that said…

Q: Why is Sagat considered the best character in Street Fighter IV?
A: I think if you analyze Sagat’s gameplay, you come to realize that he has an outside as well as an inside game; meaning, he can zone very well, but he can also get close and apply pressure (unlike a character like Dhalsim) if it need be. For example, Sagat can do an excellent job zoning Zangief. In fact, only Seth zones Zangief better than Sagat does. On the other hand, Sagat can also apply pressure with Tiger Knee strings very well against characters, such as C.Viper and Abel, who are much harder to zone. So, both aspects, the outside and the inside game, are very strong for Sagat.

Sagat deals tremendous damage, too. You are never out of a fight with Sagat because HP Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> f+HK -> ultra combo does a lot of damage, especially on opponents with below average stamina. Are you down 50% in life against Chun Li, or even 70%? No problem. If you can get that Tiger Uppercut to connect, you will deal tremendous damage to her and switch the moment of the match into your favor. On the other hand, Sagat’s stamina is above average, so your opponents will have to take some risks in order to deplete your lifebar completely.

The only legitimate weakness that Sagat suffers from is speed. He moves very slowly, and his backdash is awful because of its speed and recovery. The good news is that he may use kara Tiger Knees to advance forward when he needs to.

In short, Sagat is a powerhouse. One of the best zoning games in the game. Solid pressure up close with Tiger Knee strings. Tremendous damage. Above average stamina.

Q: How do I do Sagat’s fake kick on a pad?
A: Soon to come.

Q: What are Sagat’s best normal moves?
A. In no particular order.

st.HK - excellent range, very good damage, hits twice, can be used as an anti-air attack

f+HK - this move may only be used as an anti-air attack. It has no uses on the ground. If you catch your opponent very high in the air with it, you may do f+HK twice followed up by Sagat’s ultra combo.

st.LK - excellent range, and good for setting up strings

j.LK - this is Sagat’s only jumping cross up attack

j.MP - very good jumping attack with a lot of priority

j.HK - decent range and very good damage

cr.LK - all of your strings and combos will start from this crouching attack

cr.MK - only good for whiff punishment. For example, if Ryu or Ken whiff a LP Shoryuken in front of you, punish it with cr.MK -> HP Tiger Uppercut

More on best normal attacks.

Best normals: st.MK: stuffs a load of shit
cr.LK: great way to set up uppercut if you can link it.
st.HK: does a good deal of damage for a normal

Best AA: HP Tiger Uppercut (LP version to stuff or trade with crossups)
st.HK (good if you time it right, but some moves beat this so use sparingly)

Best air to air: Sagat shouldn’t really be jumping, but if the situation calls for it:
j.MP: active frames for days… stuffs a lot of shit in the air.
j.HP: does good damage and kills Bison’s DR and headstomp easy.

Q: Can you talk about Sagat’s up close / footsie game?
A: Sure.

Honestly, Sagat’s up close game gets me in trouble sometimes. Someone will be crouching blocking right in front of me and I KNOW I should just throw them back out or push them back out so I can start zoning them with shots, but Sagat has SO many good options up close that I just say “fuck it!” and I play footsies instead.

Let’s go over those options.

Crouching jab - Comes out in 3 frames. Has more range then his crouching short. Since it’s fast it’s useful during footsies to stuff other normals. Leaves you at 0 frames of advantage so it’s safe on block and good for block strings as well.

Crouching short - Comes out on frame 5, and leaves Sagat at plus 3 on block. That’s just…too good. This means that when Sagat recovers from the cr.short his opponent will still be in block stun for 3 frames. Using frame advantage intelligently is key for maintaining a strong offense. This normal has decent range as well and is another main component of Sagat’s block string. Also if you go for the option select tech throw, this will come out if you don’t tech, which is good for Sagat.

Crouching strong - Comes out in 5 frames and has good range and priority. This actually leaves you at +1 on block so it’s worth using. Slightly less frame advantage then the cr. short, but with more range, damage and block pushback. This move is good in block strings and linking after a cr. short.

Crouching fierce - I swear this thing is straight outta CvS2. Comes out on frame 8 which is decent for a heavy normal. But the thing that makes this thing nuts, is the massive priority and the huge range. This thing has more range then almost every other normal in Sagat’s arsenal save for a couple. The range is comparable to a shoto’s cr. forward. When it’s spaced out it pretty much eats any other normal for breakfast. Only very fast high priority jabs will beat it usually and even then they still might get stuffed if they mistimed it.

Standing short - Stupid range, cancellable into specials, and comes out on frame 6. For a light normal it’s on the slower side but it’s utility offsets that minor weakness. It leaves you at -1, but it’s perfectly safe on block especially when fully spaced and you cancel into a Tiger Shot. This is great in block strings and for pushing your opponent out when they are too close for comfort and you want to get back to zoning.

Overhead - The range on this thing is quite deceptive and extends beyond Sagat’s elbow. It’s slow coming out in 20 frames, but Sagat’s focus attack comes out in 21 frames and that sees use so why not this? Safe on block and has good pushback when it hits or if its blocked which is good for setting up your zoning.

Focus attack - This is Sagat’s longest ranged normal. I will repeat that. This move has more range then Sagat’s s.short. It’s also one of the faster Focus attacks. This thing is amazing if only due to the range. Throw it out and then when it’s blocked you cancel into a dash and go for a grab. This works most of the time until people get wise to it. Then you can dash in and do shenanigans like a tiger uppercut or dash in and block to bait and punish an uppercut or even dash into another focus attack. You can throw this out during poke wars and fish for a counter hit and if you get it dash into uppercut to FADC to F+HK to ultra.

Standing jab - Sagat has a pretty good standing jab. Leaves him at +3 when it hits from far away and at +4 when up close. Unfortunately Sagat is very tall and many characters can duck the jab when he is up close although some can’t like Boxer for example. From far away his elbow angles downward so it can still hit crouching opponents which is pretty cool. I need to mess with these moves more, but they may have potential.

As far as block strings go you have a few to choose from:

c.lk 3 times
c.lp 3 times
s.lk into low tiger shot
c.lk, c.lk, c.lp into low tiger shot
c.lk, c.lp into low tiger shot

Try not to get TOO fancy since links have strict timing and if you leave a hole open in your timing you risk eating a reversal.

The beauty of block strings is that once you condition an opponent to a block string when they get in, that’s what they will expect and that’s when the mix-ups begin. Remember this, The smarter your opponent is, the easier it is to fuck with their heads. Abusing frame advantage is a big part of this as well.

Let’s say your opponent is up close so you throw out 2 c. shorts and they get blocked. That’s fine because you are at +3. Now you have some serious options. You could cancel into a tiger shot to push them out. You can walk forward slightly to bait a reversal and then punish. You could throw out an overhead, which works well alot of the time since NO ONE expects it. You can dash in and grab. You could throw out a s.lk and cancel into a Tiger Knee to keep the pressure on. You could throw out a focus attack and you have ALOT of options from there too.

If you went the Tiger Knee route, the guessing game starts all over again and you do have slight frame advantage if it’s blocked on the way down I believe. If you don’t then I’m pretty sure you are at least neutral with your opponent. Using the Tiger Knee keeps the close range game going pretty much.

DO YOU SEE WHY IT’S SO TOUGH TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO WHEN YOU ARE UP CLOSE?!!?!!?!?

This dude has TOO many options, and they are ALL good.

Sagat is the fucking emperor. Bow down to him.

If you want to play it safe up close I would usually stick with block strings most of the time, with the occasional focus attack into grab, and pokes cancelled into tiger knees and then maybe a grab or block string from there. But you have alot of tools at your disposal so be sure to experiment.

Q: Does Sagat have a cross up move?
A: j.LK crosses up, but you need to hit it very deep (i.e., around opponent’s hip area) in order to combo from it.

j.HK can cross up big characters in corners, but the timing is very, very strict.

Q: I have seen a Tiger Knee cross up? What the…?
The Tiger Knee cross up does not appear to work on all characters. In fact, it seems as though it only works on medium sized characters. It is also very hard to set up because the distance and timing are very, very strict. Your opponent must also be crouch blocking and quick standing for it to cross up.

Take a look at the second part of this youtube video (roughly starting at 0:17 seconds):

[media=youtube]f9lYyYdVAIg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fkoruchado%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded[/media]

As you can so, after the cross up the opponent is in a “juggle-able” state. You can follow up with another Tiger Knee, a super, or even an ultra combo as shown in the aforementioned video.

If you want to practice this cross up, go into practice mode and set the training dummy (preferably El Fuerte) to “all block”, “crouch”, and quick stand “on”. Hit him with a focus attack level 3 and follow up with cr.LK -> cr.LK -> cr.LP -> HP Tiger Uppercut (scroll down below to get tips on how to perform this combo) after it. Then see if you can time a MK Tiger Knee so that it crosses up El Fuerte. When done correctly, the Tiger Knee will be blocked from the other side.

It is said that Mago does this cross up fairly often on El Fuerte players in Japan.

crossup TK (both MK and EX) works on: cammy, fuerte, akuma, sim, chun , guile, sakura, ryu, viper, blanka, gen.

i could crossup only with the MK version: ken and dan.

can’t be crossed up: sagat, zangief, boxer, rufus, dict, abel, honda, feilong, gouken, seth, claw, rose.

the test was made vs the standard grounded position (head away from the opponent, like after a sweep or most juggles). the getup from the other position has different properties.

Q: What is Sagat’s most damaging combo without the use of super meter and the ultra combo?
A: Close st. MP -> HP Tiger Uppercut does the most damage. cr.MP -> HP Tiger Uppercut does a little bit less.

Q: Can you talk about Sagat’s focus attack?
A: Sagat’s focus attack is one of the faster focus attacks in the game. However, it does not have too much range.

All on block.

• forward dash after a canceled lvl 1 saving attack = -2

• forward dash after a canceled lvl 2 saving attack = +4

• FADC after Tiger Uppercut = +5

• FADC after kick Ground Tiger Shot = +3

Q: What do I do after a focus dash level 2 or 3 successfully connects?
A. See the answer above.

You usually want to do close st.MP -> HP Tiger Uppercut, but you have to be fast and fairly close to the opponent for the close st.MP to connect in time. If you have any doubts, just do cr.MP -> Tiger Uppercut. Follow up with FADC if you have meter of course to combo into Sagat’s ultra combo.

cr.HP -> cr.LP -> HP Tiger Uppercut works on big characters, too.

Q: What is Sagat’s best meaty attack?
A. Sagat’s best meaty attack is cr.LK.

Let me quote this wonderful post because it explains everything perfectly.

Let’s look at Sagat. His main frame trap normal is low short [cr.LK]. It leaves him at +3 on block. Pretty sweet. Now when you use meaty attacks you are hitting with the last active frame of a move which gives you more frame advantage. This is because your opponent takes the full block stun or hit stun while you are closer to your recovery frames. So Sagat’s low short is active for 3 frames. If you meaty it then you cut off 2 frames and add them to his frame advantage. So now it’s +5 on block.

That’s fuckin insane. From a meaty low short Sagat could do HK and it would be a tight block string. You wouldn’t be able to mash out a DP [Dragon Punch]. That’s how tight it is due to the massive frame advantage.

Q: What is there to know about Sagat’s Tiger Shots?
A: High Tiger Shots (QCF+P) have a better recovery than low Tiger Shots (QCF+K) do. High Tiger Shots may be dodged by holding down; low Tiger Shots may not be dodged by holding down. Most players will neutral jump low Tiger Shots.

Q: Are there any short cuts for Sagat’s Tiger Uppercut (f,d,d/f+P)?
A: d/f, d/f+P executes a Tiger Uppercut. Crouching by holding d/f and then quickly pressing d,d/f+P executes a Tiger Uppercut as well.

Q: Which version of the Tiger Uppercut do I use when my opponent is jumping at me?
A: You should generally use the HP version of the Tiger Uppercut. It has the most range. However, in rare instances a LP version may be appropriate if your opponent is jumping at you from a higher angle.

Take a look at the following video and pay close attention at 0:49 seconds:

[media=youtube]-yw1YYSJxG4"[/media]

If Mago had done the HP version of the Tiger Uppercut at that moment, it would have missed C.Viper completely.

Q: Can Sagat’s Tiger Uppercuts beat safe jumps?
A: No.

All Tiger Uppercuts are 5 frames fast. That gives your opponent enough time to safe jump you.

Q: My Tiger Uppercuts trade frequently with jumping attacks. Why is that?
A: All Tiger Uppercuts have the most invulnerablity frames on start up, not at any other moment. If you want to avoid trade offs, time your Tiger Uppercut with your opponent’s jumping attack as late as possible. Trade offs are not necessarily bad for Sagat. His stamina is above average (1100 points), and a trade off of Sagat’s Tiger Uppercut may be followed up by an easy f+HK -> Tiger Destruction combo without wasting any meter.

Q: How do I deal with cross ups?
A: Soon to come.

Q: Do you have any tips on Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> f+HK -> ultra combo?
A: Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> f+HK -> Ultra Combo is very easy. Be sure not to mash forward for the FADC part of the combo or you will dash underneath your opponent. Obviously, you must learn this combo to play Sagat at any serious level. Go into practice mode and practice it until you can do it with a 100% consistancy rate.

Q: My f+HK misses my opponents sometimes after Tiger Uppercut -> FADC. What does this happen?
A: Some characters float very differently than others do after Tiger Uppercut -> FADC.

Against the following characters its better to either backdash to ultra or do the ultra immediately after the FADC:

-Boxer (everyone knows this one I think, his floaty fall is annoying)
-Gouken (back-dash seems iffy, so go forward into ultra)
-Seth(same as Boxer, floaty fall)
-Cammy (like Gouken, forward-dash cuz you could whiff if you back-dash)
-Sagat (at midscreen f.HK is okay, but anywhere near the end of the screen and you stand a chance of whiffing your Ultra’s finisher altogether)

Most of the other characters have similar timing… not EXACTLY the same, but similar.

Q: The last hit of Sagat’s ultra combo does not connect properly when I am close to corners. Is there any way to avoid this glitch?
A. Yes, there is.

You have to charge your FADC to level two (after the Tiger Uppercut), quickly dash under your opponent, and then perform Sagat’s ultra combo. This requires a lot of practice.

Here is a demonstration of it:

[media=youtube]f9lYyYdVAIg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fkoruchado%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded[/media]

**Q: What do I do after Tiger Uppercut -> FADC if I do not have my ultra combo? **
A: The most damaging combo without using Sagat’s ultra combo is:

Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> f+HK -> EX Tiger Shot (only one hit connects)

Most players like to save their meter, so they usually just do Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> f+HK and backdash, throwing a HK Tiger Shot.

Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> HK Tiger Knee is good if you are cornerned and need to get out.

Q: How do you do EX Tiger Uppercut -> ultra combo?
A: You have to buffer the motion of the ultra combo as soon as Sagat lands on the ground after the EX Tiger Uppercut. If you do it correctly, your opponent will be well beyond Sagat’s head height, and the ultra combo will connect. If you do it too late (i.e., opponent’s body is well below Sagat’s head), the ultra combo will miss entirely and you will get punished when your opponent quick stands.

EX Tiger Uppercut -> ultra combo works on all characters. It is harder to connect the ultra combo on a character such as Zangief because he falls very quickly to the ground. However, if you catch an opponent jumping at you with the EX Tiger Uppercut and all hits connect, the ultra combo will juggle any character rather easily.

Do not bother spending countless hours practicing this combo since the EX Tiger Uppercut does not play an integral role in Sagat’s gameplay. Besides, you must save your meter for FADCs and EX Tiger Shots.

Q: My opponent spins after my Tiger Uppercut connects sometimes; I cannot connect Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> f+HK -> ultra combo. What is going on?
A: The spinning animation only occurs when a Tiger Uppercut hits as a counter hit. You cannot connect with f+HK (after FADC) when that happens. Nonetheless, you still have two reliable options.

• you can connect f+HK but ONLY after backdashing; meaning, once you do the focus attack dash cancel (FADC), tap b,b to backdash, and then f+HK can connect into Sagat’s ultra combo.

• follow up directly with Sagat’s ultra combo. There is some timing to it, however. Input the motion for the ultra combo when your opponent’s body is about to reach Sagat’s head height. Do the ultra combo too soon and Sagat goes underneath his opponent; do it too late and your opponent drops to the ground before the ultra combo can juggle.

Go into practice mode and set the “counter hit” option to “random”. With enough practice (and match experience), you should be able to distinguish between a non-counter Tiger Uppercut and a counter Tiger Uppercut and follow up appropriately after a FADC. You can react to both scenarios if you are good enough.

Counter Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> HK Tiger Knee always works, by the way, if you do not have your ultra combo.

Q: I have seen videos of players trapping their opponents with Tiger Knees. What is the secret?
A: All Tiger Knee attacks are awfully unsafe when blocked. However, when only the tip of Sagat’s knee hits, the Tiger Knees become 100% safe on block. They even give tremendous advantages if your opponents block them crouching.

The secret lies within understanding the different ranges that produce the “tip of the knee” scenarios, so that you are always safe from punishment. Go into practice mode and experiment with these ranges. Remember that you want the tip of the knee to hit ONLY. You also want the knee to hit when Sagat is “landing” from the Tiger Knee as opposed to when he is going up with it.

Furthermore, strings are generally used to produce the aforementioned ranges in collaboration with LK and MK Tiger Knees. HK Tiger Knees are not used in strings because of its different hitbox.

More on Tiger Knee strings.

I’ll make this as brief as possible. Tiger Knee is regularly very risky on block. The move has 14-16 active frames (depending on which button you push). No matter what you do, the tiger knee will go through all of it’s animation frames. So if you do a tiger knee from very close and you get both hits during the early active frames, Sagat will still go through the rest of his active frames and his recovery frames, your opponent will recover from guard stun and take their free throw or free jabs into combos. But this means that if you can hit with the later active frames, Sagat will go through his recovery frames while your opponent is still in guard stun and you will recover safely. I think it is even possible to recover at +4 frame advantage, but that’s with a perfectly spaced knee. +1 or even frames is a very real possibility. This is why smarter players stand up to block tiger knees. Standing makes sure that Sagat hits them earlier with the knee and therefore doesn’t recover as well.

Also, be aware that some characters have normals that cause them to get very low to the ground and go under tiger knees. I know the shotos can do crouching forward (medium kick) and cause Sagat’s tiger knee to whiff. Chun Li can do the same with crouching short (light kick).

Q: What are some commonly used Tiger Knee strings?
A: Some commonly used Tiger Knee strings include:

• st.LP -> LK Tiger Knee

• st.LK -> LK Tiger Knee

• cr.MP -> cr.MP -> LK Tiger Knee

• cr.LK -> cr.LK -> st.LK LK Tiger Knee or MK Tiger Knee

You may be creative and make up your own strings as long as you understand that only Sagat’s tip may hit. You are punishable otherwise.

Here is an example of Mago trapping Genius’ Vega (Claw):

[media=youtube]GsN1cC7XrZw[/media]

Also, do no go ballistic with these strings as you are obviously still vulnerable to reversal attacks, especially against those characters who have excellent reversal moves.

Q: I just cannot do cr.LK -> cr.LK -> cr.LP -> HP Tiger Uppercut. Any tips, please?
A: First of all, you must learn to link cr.LKs in order to do that combo. Once you know how to do that, the combo is fairly easy.

Hold d/f and press LK, LK, and LP. Then move the stick from down to down-front and press HP.

This method is so easy that you will even be able to pull off this combo on an X-Box 360 pad.

[m2dave]

Q: What special moves can I kara cancel from f+LK and f+HK?
A: You can kara cancel (EX) Tiger Shots, (EX) Tiger Uppercuts, and (EX) Tiger Knees out of either f+LK or f+HK. f+LK has a bigger kara cancel window than f+HK does, so kara canceling moves out of f+LK is a lot easier. Furthermore, there are some stipulations as far as kara canceling Tiger Shots is concerned.

There are two ways to kara cancel Tiger Shots out of f+LK. The first way is doing:

f+LK -> Neutral -> HCF+P

Basically, perform f+LK, let Sagat do the dashing part of the move, and before Sagat starts swinging his leg input HCF+P and you will execute a Tiger Shot. This requires some practice, though.

The second way is entirely different. Throw a LP or LK Tiger Shot and just before it makes contact with the opponent tap QCF+LK, and then press any face button. For example, if you wanted the HP version of the Tiger Shot, you would press HP after doing QCF+LK. You MUST have a Tiger Shot present on the screen for this kara cancel method to work.

As for kara canceling Tiger Shots out of f+HK, there is only one method. It is just like the one just mentioned above. Throw a LP or LK Tiger Shot and just before it makes contact with the opponent tap QCF+HK, and then press any face button. For example, if you wanted the HP version of the Tiger Shot, you would press HP after doing QCF+HK. You MUST have a Tiger Shot present on the screen for this kara cancel method to work.

Kara Tiger Shots are faster when they are done with f+HK. Kara Tiger Shots performed out of f+LK make Sagat dash slightly further, but they are slower.

Also, I strongly suggest that you learn how to kara cancel a Tiger Uppercut out of f+HK every time. This move is useful as an anti-air attack as well as a punishment attack for such things as E.Honda’s blocked HP Headbutt.

Kara MK Tiger Knees done out of f+LK are also very useful. If your opponent is crouching blocking from a certain distance, you may do the kara MK Tiger Knee to close the gap and gain some frame advantage in the process.

Q: Can I set up kara throws from f+LK or f+HK?
A: Supposedly, you can, but it is not very useful.

He does have a kara throw off of f+HK, it adds a few pixels to your throw range (visibly). It’s not very useful however.

Q: What are my main anti-air options?
A: The following anti-air options are listed from shortest range to biggest range.

• LP Tiger Uppercut - use this when your opponents are right above your head to strike them down. If you catch them high enough, you may even follow up with a LK Tiger Knee, which juggles. LP Tiger Uppercut also counters such moves as Akuma’s and Gouken’s (EX) Demon Flip Grabs.

• HP Tiger Uppercut - use this when your opponents are jumping from general jumping distances (i.e., 3-4 characters away from Sagat) at you.

• st.HK - this move has a little bit more range than HP Tiger Uppercut does. However, since it has no invulnerability frames like a Tiger Uppercut, expect to trade frequently, even beaten cleanly sometimes, by your opponent’s jumping attacks.

• f+HK - this move has even more range than st.HK does. Learn the appropriate spacing for this move and you can catch jumping opponents with f+HK -> ultra combo. f+HK -> f+HK -> ultra combo works as well on characters who have floaty jump animations, such as Chun Li and M.Bison (Dictator).

• kara Tiger Uppercut out of f+HK - you can catch opponents with this move if they jump almost 3/4th of the screen at Sagat. Be careful, however. You do not want to whiff this attack or you will be left wide, wide open to punishment.

Know what will hit when. Experiment with distances. That is the key.

Q: What is the basic strategy with Sagat?
A: The most basic strategy consists of zoning with Tiger Shots until your opponent gets close in which case you may push him/her out with a Tiger Knee or Tiger Shot string.

Aside from maybe Akuma, Dhalsim, and Seth, no character may engage in a projectile war against Sagat because high Tiger Shots, HP Tiger Shots in particular, cannot be matched due to their fast recoveries. That is excellent news for a couple of reasons. First, your opponents will have to find a way to get close to you, taking big risks at times because Sagat’s anti aerial game is very powerful. Secondly, you will gain a lot of meter using Tiger Shots while your opponents will usually gain a lot less as they are attempting to close the gap and come close to you. Zoning may be misinterpreted by some as “spamming Tiger Shots”. It is more complex than that, however. For example, while zoning a character such as Boxer (Balrog), there are many things to watch out for - TAPs, which go through fireballs, EX Rush Punches, which can absorb a non-EX Tiger Shot and punish Sagat on the recovery frames of a Tiger Shot, Boxer’s ultra combo, which can be buffered of a forward dash going through Tiger Shots in the process, and finally Boxer’s jumping attacks, such as j.HPs, which have a lot of priority. It takes a great deal of playing time in order to be able to react to all these things and have the frame of mind to punish them appropriately under pressure.

The second part of Sagat’s basic strategy includes dealing with opponents who are close to you. Obviously, you cannot successfully zone opponents who are in your face. You need to find a way to push them out and create some space. This is when Tiger Knee and Tiger Shot strings come into play. If your opponent is standing one character away from you, you can usually do st.LK -> LK Tiger Knee or LK Tiger Shot and you will be in a good position, especially if your opponent happened to block the LK Tiger Knee by crouching. If your opponent is roughly two characters away from you, doing a MK Tiger Knee is usually a safe thing to do. However, be very careful of reversal attacks and backdashes. If your opponent is using a character with a fast backdash, such as Chun Li or Boxer, they may anticipate your MK Tiger Knee, backdash away from it, and punish you with something like cr.HK as you are recovering. Also, Ryu and Dhalsim, for example, can actually perform their respective cr.MKs, which go underneath Tiger Knees causing them to whiff entirely. You can get punished when that happens, so you must be aware of it. The key in dealing with up close scenarios is knowing what strings are appropriate to do at what time as well as knowing your opponent’s counter options.

I also want to talk about briefly about meaty attacks since you see Mago using them a lot. Against characters with slow reversal attacks, you can attempt FREE meaty attacks without getting punished! In fact, if you time your meaty attack properly, you will recover in time to block certain reversal attacks, punishing your opponent.

Let us take a look at C.Viper. One of her most used reversal attacks is QCB+HP (AKA HP Thunder Knuckle). This attack is 7 frames fast. Sagat’s cr.LK recovers in 6 frames when it whiffs completely. If you time Sagat’s cr.LK perfectly as C.Viper is about to stand up from a grounded state, Sagat will recover in time from his cr.LK and block C.Viper’s QCB+HP. This works because Sagat’s cr.LK recovers faster (i.e., 6 frames) before C.Viper’s QCB+HP reaches its first active frame (i.e., 7 frames).

This means that Sagat can use his cr.LK as a meaty attack against any character whose reversal attack is 7 frames or slower.

Take Boxer (Balrog), for example. All of his Headbutt special moves are 11 frames. They are too slow to hit Sagat. EX Headbutt is also 11 frames. Too slow. Boxer’s super combo is 10 frames. Too slow. Boxer’s ultra combo is 11 frames. Again, too slow.

No matter which reversal option Boxer does against Sagat’s meaty cr.LK, it will either get beaten or blocked and punished.

Another example is Rose. EX Soul Spiral hits on frame 13. super combo hits on frame 9. ultra combo hits on frame 12. All of these three options will get blocked and punished (with the exception of Rose’s super combo, which is safe on block).

Q: Who are Sagat’s hardest match ups?
A: This discussion will always be debated upon, especially as the game progresses. Keep in mind that Sagat has no mismatches in Street Fighter IV, but theoretically speaking his “mismatches” are against characters who can go toe to toe with him (i.e., 5:5 match ups). The following paragraphs consist of general overviews rather than meticulous versus strategies. If you struggle against certain characters, please ask for help in the stuck versus thread in this forum.

Akuma - Akuma can do it all. He can zone and run very well due his wide variety of fireballs. He can set up a very strong offensive game with st. HKs, j.MKs, Demon Flip Kicks, Demon Flip Throws, and tick throws. If he finds himself in a bad situation, he can use his Shoryukens (all of which hit on the 3rd frame) or his teleports to escape. The only exploitable weakness he has is his stamina, which only consists of 850 points.

Because Akuma has the ability to throw HP Red Hadokens, which hit three time, he is one of the very few characters in the game who can match Sagat in a projectile war. He has the EX Demon Flip Throw as well, which can grab Sagat full screen away when he is recovering from a Tiger Shot. He also has aerial fireballs that he can use to stall in the air, avoiding possible chip damage done by Tiger Shots. There is more. Akuma is hard to lock down because of the aforementioned teleports, not to mention that he can do Shoryuken -> FADC himself to escape to safety. Akuma has a loop combo on Sagat as well, which consists of doing far st.LPs into far st.HKs. He can repeat this loop up to three times finishing it with a far st.LP -> cr.HK, which deals massive stun damage to Sagat. He can then of course apply further mix ups since you cannot quick stand after cr.HKs.

The good news is that Akuma takes a lot of damage, especially damage done by Sagat. This evens the playing field because Sagat only needs to land one Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> f+HK -> ultra combo to take away 70% of Akuma’s life. Of course that is easier said than done. However, if you can neutralize his projectile game and land a few lucky EX Tiger Shots, he will eventually have to take some risks and move in. That is when Sagat has the chance to deal the most damage. Nonetheless, Akuma is definitely Sagat’s hardest match up. I think Mago has specifically stated the same.

Ryu - Sagat vs. Ryu has been considered to be a 5:5 match up ever since Street Fighter IV was released. While not as threatening as Akuma because he cannot match Sagat’s projectile game, Ryu is a highly versatile character, able to handle almost any problem thrown at him. His strengths, in particular, lie within his immensely strong footsie game. Unlike Sagat, Ryu’s walking speed is acceptable, and add to that his cr.MK, which is arguably one of the best footsie tools in Street Fighter IV altogether, and Ryu dominates the mid range game. He is not subject to focus attacks either because of cr.MK -> Hadoken. Another one of Ryu’s obvious strengths is his ability to combo into his ultra combo in many, many different ways.

Shoryuken -> FADC -> ultra combo (duh!)

Shoryuken (trades) -> ultra combo

Anti-air LP Shoryuken -> ultra combo

Corner EX Hurricane Kicks -> ultra combo

Corner EX Hadoken -> ultra combo

I think you get the point.

His super combo is also noteworthy. The HP version of it is light speed fast at 2 frames. It is an excellent punishing tool.

Most of the Sagat vs. Ryu fight will be spent at mid range. Obviously, expect a lot of projectile wars at that range with the careful but occasional jump in. Sagat has to be on point with the Tiger Knees because Ryu’s cr.MK goes underneath them. Ryu can also utilize his ultra combo, which trades with Tiger Shots 3-4 characters away. Whoever guesses right the most wins. Overall, this is a tough and interesting fight. Sagat has a slight advantage, though, due to faster projectiles, damage output, and stamina.

Look up Mago vs. Daigo on http://youtube.com and enjoy the show.

Dhalsim - If Street Fighter IV is your first Street Fighter game, Dhalsim may seem like an odd character. He is slow, and it is not just his movement. All of his moves are slow, too. He can barely string together two hits. His reversal game is severely lacking, meaning that he has no “Dragon Punch type” move. His only reversals are his teleports and his super combo. Nothing else has any invincibility. His damage output is low as well while his stamina is below average at 900 points. You are perhaps wondering now how Dhalsim could be a hard match up for Sagat.

Dhalsim’s strengths lie in his zoning abilities. His entire game plan revolves around keeping his opponent at the other side of the screen, usually at the range where his st.HP would hit, and he is very good at doing it. His fireballs, the Yoga Fires, are average in speed and recovery; however, he is equipped with multiple long range attacks that consist of his stretchy limbs. Those are used to push you back on the ground as well as in the air should you try to approach him.

Sagat has a hard time in this match up for the following two reasons.

1. Tiger Shots are obviously much better than Yoga Fires. However, Dhalsim is suited to deal with fireballs better than any other character in the game. His jump is floaty. He can easily neutral jump over almost every Tiger Shot you throw at him. Should the Tiger Shot threaten him while he is airborne, he can simply do a teleport in the air and avoid it entirely. His slides, d+LK, d+MK, and d+HK can all go underneath high as well as low Tiger Shots. The Yoga Tower (u+PPP) avoids all low Tiger Shots, but not high Tiger Shots. His j.HP has incredible range and can punish Tiger Shots from almost full screen away if Dhalsim jumps forward. Of course he also that aforementioned Yoga Teleport. If you throw Tiger Shots carelessly, Dhalsim can perform an instant aerial teleport and follow up with j.HP -> b+MK -> Yoga Flame -> super combo.

2. Tiger Knee strings do not work too well on Dhalsim as his slide attacks, particularly d+LK and d+MK, avoid them. If you whiff a Tiger Knee, expect to get thrown. What this means is that Sagat is forced to end strings with low Tiger Shots, at times, which, obviously, do not give as much block advantage as Tiger Knees do. cr.LKs are good for pressure of course, but Sagat is no Boxer. Due to his slow walking speed, he cannot continuously walk up and spam cr.LKs on Dhalsim (as opposed to Boxer, who can spam cr.LPs, combined with his fast forward dash that completely shut down Dhalsim).

Despite all of this, Sagat still has a slight advantage over Dhalsim because, again, of his high damage output and stamina. If you remain patient, understand when it is safe to throw Tiger Shots, and slowly work your way inside, you can beat Dhalsim with Sagat.

The ironic thing is that Dhalsim is generally not considered a top tier character, so it may come as a surprise that Sagat above all characters struggles somewhat against him. In fact, most characters in the top 10 give Dhalsim immense problems. He has no easy match ups. Once they get in on him, he is sure to lose some health before he can escape. And Street Fighter IV is no Super Turbo; it is almost impossible to zone any character for an entire round. They will eventually get close to him and that is when he is big trouble because of lack of good reversal attacks.

C.Viper - C.Viper is an offensive juggernaut. There is no other way to describe her gameplay style. She has perhaps the most offensive tools out of any character in Street Fighter IV. In addition, she is the only character in the game with a super jump that can reach opponents full screen away, so that should ring a bell immediately - she is HARD to zone. Let us go back and talk about her basic offensive options for now. She has a special move, the Burning Kick, which can be done in the air as a cross up attack. For example, she could throw you and cross you up with an aerial Burning Kick or she could make the Burning Kick hit you from the front (i.e., non-cross up). She could cross you up with her jumping roundhouse (or not). She could jump in with her roundhouse, which lets her perform a Burning Kick while she is still airborne. The Burning Kick (after the j.roundhouse has usually been blocked) can also cross up (or not). She could simply empty jump and throw you again, too. As you can see, she has a lot of options. The aerial Burning Kick also leaves her at +1 on block, so she remains relatively safe while doing it.

On the ground, she has the Thunder Knuckles, QCB+LP and QCB+MP, in particular, since QCB+HP is always used as an anti-air attack. The Thunder Knuckles, again, QCB+LP and QCB+MP, in particular, but QCB+MP much moreso because it leaves C.Viper at only -1 on block with a lot of push back, are easily canceled from most of her normal attacks, especially cr.MK, so you will be seeing cr.MK -> MP Thunder Knuckle an awful lot. The Thunder Knuckles are also armor breaking special moves, so focus attacks are somewhat risky to use when she attacks from the ground. As a result, she can easily apply solid pressure on the ground and bait you into doing reversal attacks.

C.Viper’s last special move is the Seismo Hammer, which sort of looks like Jax’s ground pound in Mortal Kombat II. C.Viper’s Seismo Hammers are blockable, but they must be blocked low. The LP version hits opponents who are
one character away, the MP version hits opponents who are 4-5 characters away, and the HP version hits opponents who are almost full screen away. The EX version, which is a little faster than the regular Seismo Hammers and which has some invincibility frames, roughly hits the entire mid area of the screen. C.Viper can super jump cancel from all Seismo Hammers, so she can connect an aerial Burning Kick, and even her ultra combo thereafter in corners.

Speaking of connecting ultra combos, she cannot combo into it as well as characters like Sagat, Ryu, and Rufus can, but she does have a lot of ways to land it in corners. QCB+HP -> FADC -> ultra combo only works in corners I believe. (EX) Seismo Hammer -> super jump cancel -> aerial Burning Kick -> ultra combo works near corners. After an aerial Burning Kick, you are considered in a juggle-able state, so she can follow up with her ultra combo in corners. QCB+HP (trade) -> dash forward -> ultra combo and (EX) Seismo Hammer -> FADC -> ultra combo work anywhere on the screen.

Just like the match up against Ryu and Dhalsim, Sagat has a slight advantage over C.Viper because of his damage output and stamina. C.Viper does not do too much damage on Sagat, but she can stun him very quickly with her combos if you are not careful. She has 900 points of stamina like Dhalsim, so that helps Sagat a lot. However, since her offensive game is very strong, your defense and patience will be put to test. C.Viper is a character you must play against an awful lot in order to understand how to defend against all of her tricks. Find a good C.Viper player and fight him over and over again until you feel confident that you have an understanding of everything that she can do on offense.

Seth - Seth can zone extremely well, especially when his super and ultra combo meters are full. He shares many character’s special moves most of which are toned down versions of the original special moves. He suffers from a horrendous stamina at only 700 points, though, which is by far the worst in the game, by the way, so even simple Sagat combos, such as cr.MK -> HP Tiger Uppercut will almost take away 1/3rd of his life. Before I address Sagat’s subtleties in this match, I think it would be wise to discuss most of Seth’s special moves, specifically how they differ from the original special moves.

Sonic Boom - Seth’s Sonic Boom is nothing like Guile’s Sonic Boom. In fact, Seth’s Sonic Boom functions more like Ryu’s Hadoken in terms of recovery and projectile speed.

Shoryuken - Seth’s version of the Shoryuken has less range and does less damage despite the additional hits.

Lightening Kicks / Legs - This move functions nothing like Chun Li’s Lightening Kicks. Seth’s version is very unsafe on block and mostly used in combos. If you block it, you can do cr.MP -> HP Tiger Uppercut.

SPD - less range and less damage compared to Zangief’s SPD.

Yoga Teleport - Seth has no aerial version of the Yoga Teleport like Dhalsim does.

As you can see, Seth shares many character’s special moves most of which are toned down versions of the original special moves he stole from other characters. Nonetheless, he possesses a wide variety of tools, which actually makes him quite a versatile character.

The main problem, however, in this match up is Seth’s ultra combo. It does not do a lot of damage, but it is a full screen attack, meaning that the Seth player can use it to punish Tiger Shots on reaction. In fact, it can also be used to punish forward jumps on reaction, so if a Seth player throws a LP Sonic Boom and you jump forward to avoid it, even full screen away, Seth’s ultra combo can connect while you are still airborne. There is almost no way around this cheap fireball trap. If you throw a Tiger Shot, you eat the ultra combo; if you jump forward, you eat the ultra combo. You may even eat the ultra combo while trying to focus absorb it, but absorbing it along with neutral jumping over it are perhaps the best options since they are hard, if not impossible, for the Seth player to react to. Because Seth’s ultra combo literally allows him to control the entire screen, Sagat is very likely to eat at least one ultra combo in a single round. Keep in mind that Seth has the worst stamina in the game, which means that his ultra combo meter fills up rather fast. Against Sagat, he will most likely end up acquiring two ultra combos in the same round.

Seth’s super combo may be used in the same manner. However, it is nowhere near as effective as his ultra combo. The most common set ups include throwing LP Sonic Booms in an attempt to get you to jump forward full screen away. If you do so, a MP super combo pulls you in out of the air for some damage.

Also, while Seth’s combos do very little damage, they deplete your stun meter almost as fast as C.Viper’s combos do. Be careful. Do not spam random Tiger Uppercuts against Seth. If you end up with 25% of health while the clock is running out and Seth’s ultra combo meter is full, forget it. You will not be able to win against good Seth players, so never put yourself in such a disadvantageous situation.

Despite all these cheesy and annoying fireball traps, Sagat still has an advantage over Seth simply because Seth’s stamina is beyond pitiful. Sagat literally only needs to hit him about three times to take away half of his life, not to mention that HP Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> f+HK -> ultra combo does 90% of damage on the poor guy if your ultra combo meter is full. If you play patiently and do not get frustrated by his annoying fireball / ultra combo traps, you will be the victor. This match up is perhaps 5.5:4.5, if not even 6:4, in Sagat’s favor.

Q: Who are the best Sagat players in the world?
A: I guess that one could debate this depending at which time one asks the question. However, right now these are the top three Sagat players in the world. All three of them are from Japan. In particular, Mago is ranked very high in Japan and is generally considered one of the best if not the best player in the world.

1. Mago
2. Ojisan Boy
3. RF

Search them on http://youtube.com to see them in action.

[HazeandFire]

EX TU to ultra works on gief.

It works on all chars the timing is just strict :rolleyes:

[AirPhforce]

Amazing thread. Thanks for this.

[Death_By_Nines]

Good shit dude… Nice concise thread.

EDIT: The post about f.HK whiffing certain characters was made by me… not PGL

[Anotak]

Q: Can I set up kara throws from f+LK or f+HK?
A: No. Sagat has no kara throws. None.

slightly incorrect. He does have a kara throw off of f+HK, it adds a few pixels to your throw range (visibly). It’s not very useful however.
sorry for being nitpicky about this

[m2dave]

EX TU to ultra works on gief.

It works on all chars the timing is just strict :rolleyes:

I will correct it. Thank you.

Good shit dude… Nice concise thread.

EDIT: The post about f.HK whiffing certain characters was made by me… not PGL

Oops. I apologize. I had a bunch of quotes saved in my notepad. I must have accidentally re-arranged something. I will correct it.

slightly incorrect. He does have a kara throw off of f+HK, it adds a few pixels to your throw range (visibly). It’s not very useful however.
sorry for being nitpicky about this

Really? I really did not know. Thank you. I will edit my post.

[Death_By_Nines]

Oops. I apologize. I had a bunch of quotes saved in my notepad. I must have accidentally re-arranged something. I will correct it.

It’s all good man… keep doing what you’re doing :tup:

[Quest2be1]

Yeah dave, this is a pretty dope thread my dude. Sagat’s most damaging combo is this… j.HP>MP>HP Tiger Uppercut

[HazeandFire]

Yeah dave, this is a pretty dope thread my dude. Sagat’s most damaging combo is this… j.HP>MP>HP Tiger Uppercut

Wrong. j.HP > s.MK c.lp xx HP TU

[Quest2be1]

@Haze
Is that character specific?

[EmblemLord]

Good thread.

Edit:Oh, shit I was quoted. TWICE!! lololol.

[System_1]

A lot of good information here, thanks for the thread.

[System_1]

First match of this video - [media=youtube]awvti1Ol4gg&feature=sub[/media]

is Bonchan using c.MP to connect into c.MP? what is going on lol

[Anotak]

First match of this video - [media=youtube]awvti1Ol4gg&feature=sub[/media]

is Bonchan using c.MP to connect into c.MP? what is going on lol

counterhit

[m2dave]

Thanks for all the support, guys.

If something appears to be incorrect, inform me about it and I will correct it.

Let me know if you disagree with Sagat’s hardest match ups. I have Akuma, Ryu, Dhalsim, C.Viper, and Seth listed. In that order.

PS: You can also link cr.MP -> cr.MP if the first cr.MP hits as a meaty attack. Meaty cr.LK -> cr.HP comboes as well.

[Death_By_Nines]

Let me know if you disagree with Sagat’s hardest match ups. I have Akuma, Ryu, Dhalsim, C.Viper, and Seth listed. In that order.
well.

I personally would put Viper at the top of that list lol. Virtually impossible to zone, hella annoying cross-ups, massive damage that leads to stun in a short period, somewhat unpredictable mix-up game… etc etc.

This is just a personal thing though. She pisses me off so much :mad:

[m2dave]

I personally would put Viper at the top of that list lol. Virtually impossible to zone, hella annoying cross-ups, massive damage that leads to stun in a short period, somewhat unpredictable mix-up game… etc etc.

This is just a personal thing though. She pisses me off so much :mad:

I see your points. She has countless tricks. That is why you have to play against her over and over again until you have a full understanding how to deal with all of them, or at least have an idea what to expect in certain situations. If you have no idea what the hell she is doing, you will not beat her whether you use Sagat or Dan.

I may be wrong, but I think Sagat has a slight advantage over C.Viper for the same reasons that he has advantages over many other characters, so this fight is yet another example of it. His damage output, especially against her, and his above average stamina mean that Sagat can take more risks and make more mistakes. Even if those mistakes are made, Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> f+HK -> ultra combo can get you back into the fight. She only has 900 points of stamina, so when she makes a mistake against Sagat she will pay for it dearly. If you are trained well to deal with C.Viper’s offense as Sagat, you only need one Tiger Uppercut into the ultra combo to even the playing field or steal the round from her.

Uryo was on a roll a few months ago at the God’s Garden Tournament. I think that he put Daigo, Shiro, and even Mago to the loser’s bracklet. However, Mago managed to beat him in the grand finals (after beating Daigo) mostly because of all the reasons I have just talked about.

[EmblemLord]

I’m tired of health being brought up in match-up discussions.

[m2dave]

I’m tired of health being brought up in match-up discussions.

Elaborate.