I’m gonna leave it alone after this, but:
How is it hard to take serious me pointing out things I thought were preventing Deejay from being a tourney viable character, then Capcom fixing some of those EXACT things and me getting hype for them.
Your point isn’t making much sense, but alas I’m off it.
P.S. all the other rumored changes that were in the article turned out to be true so it’s looking good.
I too would’ve enjoyed a buffed Ultra 1. But I also don’t mind a dash buff to make Ultra 2 more viable. I could do Dash U1 with Guile, so if they make it anywhere close to Guile’s, I’ll be happy.
I would rather not have to work like that to link my ultra (You know, seeing how some other characters have mindless ultra links), but I don’t mind it too much, so long as it’s there and it’s viable. Dash U2 was only viable for people who could pull it off consistently, which was few. The rest had to deal with U1, not having links into it, and the ones that did exist only juggled two or three hits into the ultra. I would’ve taken anything that caused U1 to be more viable, such as making it juggle fully, or bringing back crumple on EX Sobat, but remove the invincibility frames from its startup for a reliable, but not broken link.
But a U2 buff with dash Ultra being easier is something I will be happy with. It’s not like the inputs for the ultra are as unforgiving as they were in ST for the same input.
Agree with the 4th letter’s above post…to a point.
The reason that Dee Jay is a bad character in this game are getting fixed to a point. Dee Jay loses some matches because he gets outpoked and can be zoned effectively and that a move he has to use as a “low crush” to borrow a Tekken term is so unsafe on block that it’s simply out of the question in a lot of matches. He doesn’t have a go to poke in footsie situations and isn’t particularly good at 1/2 screen distance either because his fireball is easy to react to. Other matches he loses because he simply loses out in damage vs. damage situations. Both sides get some hits in, Dee Jay just winds up behind and really SF4 is a game where the lead itself becomes a weapon.
These seem to be getting better. More situations for damage to be created including making his only real ultra combo into something real instead of just something for tricks. Anti-air damage increasing. His distance poke getting buffed (even if the translations are somewhat unclear as to exactly what they’re doing to it). If the sobat change chops a couple negative frames off, the move becomes viable as a poke and low crush again, which improves his footsie game further.
It’s not hypocritical to be happy about the changes when they’re fixing the exact reasons why Dee Jay loses!
And now to throw a bucket of cold water on things. This does nothing to help the Dhalsim match seeing as how Dhalsim beats Guile completely for free and he’ll still have a better distance game than Dee Jay. If the short sobat goes from -6 to -3 then this would help the Guile match tremendously, but that’s an implication and not a stated change, meaning that Dee Jay’s worst match still has a very good chance at staying bad. Better fireball will help some of his other ugly losses like Fei, Vega and Bison (and Bison’s nerfs will help out even more) but there are still fundamental problems with Dee Jay’s character design in that a character that survives on safe, long distance MID (not low) pokes will still have an advantage on the character.
I think that this update gets Dee Jay out of the unplayable tier, but I’m not sold on him being a top character yet. I’ll need to play it out before I get too excited. Does it help him? Yes, it helps a lot. But we were coming from a very low place to start with.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
I’d also like to mention that everything posted so far is buffs, and we can expect at least SOME nerfs. I think we should wait for the Dev blog before we get uber excited.
As happy as I am about the changes, the nerfs could possibly outweigh them.
Of course, there could be other buffs besides the ones posted in Arcadia, but you just never know anything concrete with Capcom until they officially announce it.
I wouldn’t call current DJ “unplayable” tier. He does pretty decent in most matches, although some are just too much like Guile and Bison, maybe a few others.
I would say he’s in the “work for your win” tier with viper and others.
Totally agree with this.
On a thread note, I don’t think DJ will be getting many nerfs at all, especially not to the extent that they outweigh his buffs. No other lower tier character has suffered a similar fate with AE, so there’s no reason to believe this. Capcom has a pretty good handle on which characters need buffing and which need nerfing, even if we may not agree on the extent of the nerfs/buffs needed.
DJ doesn’t really have any “go-to” moves of any kind, be it pokes, specials or fireballs, and I don’t think they’re changing that. I think Capcom wants certain characters (Ryu, Bison, Balrog etc.) to have moves which you can just throw out without much thought and be relatively safe. It also wants to have characters you really have to work hard to win with (Viper, DJ, even Dan). I think it forms part of their game design strategy, to give different experiences to different characters. Note how Ono said that DJ is a character “for pros”.
I used to really wish that DJ could juggle U1 like Balrog juggles U1, but I’m increasingly thinking that I kinda like that when you win with DJ, you win because you completely outplayed the opponent, not because you got a lucky jabstring into headbutt U2 for 300+ damage.
P.S. absolutely no disrespect to Balrog players, btw.
He is unplayable in tournament situations (we have a thread for this already but I’ll just briefly re-iterate the point).
Out of the common tournament characters there are only a handful he has a decent match with. Honda, Rufus, Cammy, Ryu, Akuma. Honda’s probably the only one in that list that you can say that Dee Jay actually beats. He has way too many really bad matchups with Guile, Dhalsim, Chun-Li, Balrog, Bison, Fei being extremely lopsided matchups. The other common matchups falling somewhere in the middle. It’s very hard to construct a tournament scenario where you can stick with Dee Jay long term and leverage his few good matches and handful of even matches into an actual victory which is why nobody’s really done it yet.
This character needs serious improvements to his glaring fundamental weaknesses before he’s viable in competitive situations. I think the changes listed are definitely a step in the right direction but I need to actually play out the matches before I declare him a top character or even a real factor in the next game.
–Jay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
eh you’re right about the other tough matchups. I agree that those are all difficult matchups for DJ, but idk. You can still play him in certain matchups, but against those other characters you can just use someone else? I guess you’re right, but I hate to say that he is unplayable. I’d rather say that I have to get better than just blame DJ lol.
QFT
I need to work more on my ground game and defense.
I don’t really want to put Deejay in the “For pros” box if Dan is in it. I’d rather say he’s a character for intermediate to advanced players and leave that little box for Hakan and Dan. Although, if there was a non-tournament character bin, I think Deejay would be upper mid if not the at the top of that, alongside Cody, Ibuki, and the like.
We can talk about tournament viability in a few weeks time, if not next year. RIght now, I’d rather speculate about the shit that Capcom wants us to figure out on our own. If overhead goes without mention next week, then I know its gone, but if we don’t hear about some upgraded normals then I’m curious to know what Capcom’s vision for this character is going forward.
Considering how Guile is a defensive beast with AA dominance, no more then two special moves, and ridiculous normals, I want to know what Capcom looked at in the past 6 months in regard to Deejay and has to say about it.
From the looks of things, and just like with Makoto, they are trying to put more Deejay in Deejay, so does that mean no overhead, but the gdlk Upkicks and normals or did they go anther route?
Either way, MuayGio is right, not seen or heard alot about nerfs. Although they did give Deejay something he can do and be relatively safe doing it, yet at an advantage to do it often, C. Mk.
The issue with Deejay is that unlike the characters mention (Bison’s S. HK, Ryu’s C. mk, Balrog’s everything) if you took those things away they’d still be scary. Would he without c. mk?
Balrog’s juggle takes 200 damage from his ultra. It’s only use is really getting them to the corner.
Regarding DeeJay not being tournament viable, I’m officially switching my main to Deejay from Ryu. I played Ryu for the first time in ages last night and he seems so rigid-almost as if I was playing in slow motion.
I have my first major tournament as Deejay on Saturday. Basically the best in Ireland will be in attendance. I’m hoping to get out of groups with him. I’d be delighted with that.
This is nice, i’m glad he got these things (just in the last update) and ended up better. And particularly because they don’t seem to have any regards to “emulate” SF2 when they are in “developer nerf mode”. Considering DJ doesnt have anything special, in any aspects, i expected he could turn out even worse for this new version.
(btw, i’m not a DJ player) What do you think he needs so he can become as “serious” as in ST?
When top players get him, you could see really amazing things, and i would like to see that again.
The improvements help make DJ better, but they don’t patch his holes.
The air slasher recovery makes his fireball game a bit better, but doesn’t fundamentally change it. However, if the charge has been reduced like guile THAT may be a game changer for his fireball game.
The st.mk doesn’t really change anything at all.
The better mk upkicks strengthens his AA… but his AA with charge was already great.
Making the dash buffer better for ex mgu, dash, U2 gives him a viable ultra setup, but that doesn’t change a matchup, just gives you a more damaging combo WHEN YOU LAND EX MGU.
The most significant change to me is the sobat frame advantage and FADC combo possibility. This will help DJ greatly when you are in a position to land a sobat. If you can land a sobat now and have the bars to FADC is should allow you to get through that mid-level poking game and start an up close offense. However, that is only if you land (hit or block) the sobat. If your opponent stuffs it then being able to FADC a sobat is a moot point.
However, none of these changes really expand DJ’s abilities beyond what he already has, they just make him a bit stronger where he already is.
200 damage from the ultra alone, but closer to 300 when you factor in the jabstring + headbutt. Unless I am completely off the mark, in which case please let me know.
300 damage and automatically pushing your opponent all the way into the corner is pretty damn good off of no meter, easy links using the best pokes in the game. Just saying.
Many people think that WAS Dee Jay’s problem in the first place though, that he was a nicely rounded character with lots of options and no glaring stupid bad weakness but just that his Strengths weren’t really that strong and were more “Above Average” making him fall into mediocrity. Buffs to his Strengths to make them actually abusable is pretty much what Dee Jay needed dunno if it’ll be enough to make him good or really good but I think it’s in the right direction the only mediocre aspect of Dee Jay we haven’t heard improvements of yet was the relatively low quality of his pokes considering he is meant to be a zoning character.
I’ve finally accepted that deejay is like he’s always been. Nobody who’s won big in Japanese ST has done it as a deejay main. He’s just a counterpick character. YuuVega for instance has a nasty deejay but mains bison. He only brings deejay out for matchups he doesn’t like. Deejay has the same problems he has had in ST in street fighter 4. I still refuse to play other characters but this all fact. He will always have these problems unless they change who deejay fundamentally is.
As for how capcom wants to play deejay.
Look at what they’ve made easy. Good cross up and easy sweep combo. Knee shot is nice too. I’ve determined that knee shot is for safe jump setups. Sweep instant knee shot = safe jump set up. His jump fierce has a huge hitbox and his AA is great. Good for zoning and stopping jump ins. I read the prima strategy guide my friend has and it says play deejay defensively against defensive players and aggressive against aggresive players. I kind of see the logic but it doesn’t seem too logical in all cases.
These changes help but don’t change his position on the tier list. He is getting more damage opportunities with the sobat FADc but will that be enough?
The only “buff” I’d like to see in his normal game (that hasn’t been mentioned) is the input leniency on his knee shot. I’d like it so much if d+b would activate it rather than just down alone. It’d make it easier to activate as well as keeping charge.
Of course this thread is for rumored changes alone, so maybe I’m in the wrong thread 
I’m fine with Knee shot only being d+lk. I have no problem with that. I just wish they’d give it more active frames so I could do it instantly and still hit them. I hate having to delay it just to make sure it hits them. If they gave it 5 more active frames is would be great.
This goes out to wall my fellow Deejay players enjoy
[media=youtube]5WlCdiU9IzA[/media]
:woot::wgrin::woot::wgrin: