Good frame data and priority. She’s like 3S Chun in that she’s quite linear, but she’s very solid.
She isn’t much of a mixup character (though she does have some damaging mixup with meter). The problem is her normals are too good and it’s not really an issue of “how do I block this?” as it is “when can I do something other than block?”. Now R-actions can be a solution to a lot of problems but the problem here is that Mitsuru has probably the most damaging combos in the game (I suppose Elizabeth’s are more damaging). You can die in 2 Mitsuru combos most of the time, so it’s quite risky to make reversal guesses to get out of her pressure.
Her r-action is very good and it doesn’t make her go high enough in the air so it’s harder to punish than it should be. You have to punish it while she’s in the air if she has meter, or she can supercancel it when she lands…if the r-action is airblocked, there’s many cases you won’t be able to punish it in the air.
Her risk/reward is greatly skewed in her favor. Worst of all, she is very easy to use and in most cases you don’t have to actually think about what you’re doing because you can cause many problems for the opponent by just doing moves (and in most cases you can cover a number of situations with single button presses, without thinking about them). The opponent has to go way out of their way to counter simple brainless things that she might do.
Mitsuru is killer, she has all sorts of tools that can change the match-up. However, as the game progresses we are seeing other characters are learning to excel greatly and not only dealing with the Mits match-up but making the match-up generally more favorable for them. She is relatively slow, less than average mix-up (even with meter), poor midscreen combos (without meter and generally the opponent needs to be crouching), her normals and persona attacks can be baited fairly well by some characters and countered for huge punish. Even though Bufudyne is cheap as hell it also can be baited and punished accordingly. Her combos tend to have huge damage output because against skilled players it can be fairly hard to land those combos, which generally need a FC to get max damage from. Many skilled Japanese players are dissecting her block strings and getting huge counter opportunities. They are also controlling space better than they ever have before and taking advantage of her slow normals. Her mix-up is very limited and other than some deadly oki corner set-ups she has a hard time opening up someone who can block very well. She is indeed one of the best but I think in general she is not as strong as she used to be. If the game progresses in it’s current state I don’t think we will see a decline in her performance per se but I think other characters are now proving their worth and in the hands of truly great players are becoming really very deadly.
TBH, I’m much more scared of a competent Chie, Teddy, Aigis and even Yu than I am of the average Mitsuru. Not to exclude the already fantastic cast with huge comeback potential.
Are people actually still discussing the balance of this game?
I for one would like to, but it’s so shunned upon by a very spoken part of the community.
I thought the game was generally well accepted?
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Yeah Mitsuru players really hate it when the topic of balance comes up.
It’s well accepted, but it’s not like the game can’t have a little bit of balance tweaks to help it be better.
@Emil … oddly enough, I think that’s true…
Game’s at EVO. Let’s liven this discussion back up again.
See this matchup chart --> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmO7DzQ7vgX2dHEwSW1ZNmNfUHlWcnV5TVZTR0NJa1E#gid=0
It needs updating, ASAP.
Kanji vs Mitsuru is considered 4.5:5.5? Really?
Probably 4:6. Don’t think it’s any lower than that, given how he works. You can spend the entire match poking him to death and he can still pretty much come back from nothing off one mistake.
As an Aigis main, I really wanna know what Yukiko can do to us. The MU always starts with me going “well this is mildly annoying, oh wait I can fly” which is when I proceed to superjump, fly in and get a KD, win. Idk if I just don’t play good Yukiko players or this is really that frustrating for them.
This is what I’d say to describe the matchup against Yukiko. The differences here are that Mitsuru has 9500, not 8500 life, and that in addition to her really safe poking normals she can actually confirm into strong damage. It’s not the Elizabeth matchup, but this still feels harder of a matchup than Chie and Teddie, and definitely harder than Labrys, for what it’s worth.
Life difference shouldn’t matter too much, Mitsuru needs to be in to do any damage, which generally should give Kanji more opportunities; Yukiko’s happy keeping him full-screen all day. And none of Mitsurus pokes convert into good damage, other than counter-hit 5A on crouching characters (which you still have to crouch-confirm and be either close enough to the corner or OMC if midscreen).
All of her big damage comes from making reads into either 4B, Sweep, 2B anti-air or corner throw, all of which are hard to land on Kanji due to DP, command grab, FC j.C and later in the match, the grab super (this tends to happen a lot if she ever tries to go in).
The proper way to play that match is to stay as safe as possible, avoid taking any risks, watch out for DPs, don’t challenge j.C or air grab and poke with 5A (then immediately back off) until he dies, which more or less means giving up on good damage. The only way she can reliably get any real damage is if the Kanji player makes a fairly big mistake.
After dedicating my time to Aegis and labbing and doing all sorts of thing, I gotta say she’s the best IMO. The rest of the cast is strong enough to keep up with her. I’m looking at it like this:
Top 5: Aegis, Mitsuru, Chie, Yu, Teddie in any real order.
Right outside top 5: Akihiko, Yosuke
Then everybody else. The overall design makes it so everybody can bop everybody given a chance, so it works out pretty well.
Also, I gottas disagree with the Aegis - Teddie match on our chart. Teddie’s neutral is more than enough to deal with Aigis and he has one of the best answers to deal with her oki and pressure. He’s one of 2 characters who can truly get out of her safe oki set ups, he keeps her out and can nuke her zoning, and on top of all that his game works pretty well on her defense. That being said, Aegis is Aegis and can always get a hit > 4k > guess right > death. Teddie is just the only character who really doesn’t have to be afraid of her. Slight advantage Teddie, probably 6 - 4.
to be fair, that round shouldve been over off the first random sweep
What’s the most recent, japanese official (or perhaps semi-official, if it’s coming from some specific japanese top player) tierlist for this game?
Apparently it’s something like
S (in order): Mitsuru, Chie, Teddie, Aigis, Narukami
A: Yosuke, Naoto, Shadow Labrys, Yukiko, Akihiko
B: Labrys, Elizabeth, Kanji
Whoa, Naoto.
How did you get so high up there?
A and B aren’t in order, only the top 5 (S tier) are ordered.