Err… so if they’re in K or P groove and they’re jumping, you’re not allowed to Raising Storm their asses??? C’mon… most ppl have trouble parrying and JD’ing most successive hitting moves like Tiger Uppercuts no matter how much they practice.
Just some things I’ve noticed that have helped my game immensely:
Dashing back and forth with Rock is essential. One of the best dashes in the game period since it hops, goes a good distance and is ridiculously fast. Good for dead body crossups, closing distances and messing with the guy’s orientation. Do it often enough and it makes him look like a speedy mofo. If you don’t do it,… he looks like a blind mole with the walking speed of a turtle that ppl like Blanka, Bison and Mai will try to abuse in the worst ways.
Far st. mp is still a good option as a standing poke when playing footsies since only the girls, Kim, Vega, Rolento and a few others can duck underneath it. It has quick startup, higher priority then cr. mk and recovers quickly. Not to mention it also beats out a lot of the high priority moves like Sagat’s cr. fp and Blanka’s cr. fp cleanly. Don’t let your Rock turn into a rebukken/hard edge/rely on Raising Storm whore. Mix it up, use other normals and most of all… DASH!
My wakeup high Crack Counter has never worked and it pisses me off. Any particular reason for this???
UCRollerblader: Hmm I read this today and saw how you said don’t use the HP rising tackle outside or CC"s and combos, never rule out another anti-air option. I didn’t say it was your primary anti-air, it just can be used where none of his other ant-airs will work, here an example, similar to something Buktooth said.
You try to c.mk/c.rh chun-li, but she jumped, she’s right on top of you. Can you s.rh? No. So fp rising tackle, it will take out any jump attack. It’s better than letting Chun get the upperhand.
if someone is above you and u dont have a super u should always c.mp …( shift, 360, break lvl 3, beat the guy, win the tournament, get the guy’s hot girl friend, earn daigo’s respect, go home and find out you won a million dollars then have sloopy sex with your new girl friend, become a pirate…) because the rising tackle might miss, mp or lp fierce whatever, it can still miss, if they jump in at the distance, the best move you can make is s. rh… except if they have air super
and k or p groove, EYE use c.fierce to mix up their timing, i dont have that frame data bullshit but ive always felt that u RECOVER from c. fierce slightly faster than s. roundhouse in case they do jd, then u can hard edge them while they land since the c.fp pushed them up
p-groove… the same but EYE hold down to charge the raising tackle after the c.fp… anyway, as for the rising tackle being perfect… i think that there is a reason why terry gave it up in motw and kof 2003…
kcxj… you say there is all this invincibility on rising tackle… but a lot of jump ins will beat it or trade which is NOT in your favor… Just don’t use it… it’s a good simple rule for a few reasons
you shouldn’t be doing wake up moves, why? because you’re making a horrible gamble… If your wake up move hits, big deal, they can usually tech get up anyways. It does far less damage then they can do to you if they predict it.
a lot of shit beats it or trades… if it trades, rising tackle has a weak first hit and it’s not worth getting hit with a counter hit rh or something crazy like that.
he has 3 anti-airs that are much better, standing rh, raging storm, and c. strong.
ragingstormx- you’re taking buktooths advice wrong there buddy, he was talking about balrogs strong headbutt, which is a perfect anti-air if you don’t have time to use his other ones… Rock’s rising tackle doesn’t work like that because the invincibility sucks on it, don’t listen to kcxj’s “frame data” knowledge… spitting out frame data doesn’t mean shit if it doesn’t work in a match. basically, if you do low forward and they jump to cross you up, you’ll have enough time to do crouching strong which leads to a mixup. If you don’t feel like you do, there is nothing wrong with blocking or jumping out of the way. or hell, just do raging storm, peace out. Oh yeah, and against chun with rock, if you don’t have enough time to early anti air her or raging storm, you’d better block, more often then not her jumping short will beat rising tackle clean and she gets a free 10,000 damage combo on you. Nothing wrong with just blocking it since it’s relatively easy to see and she doesn’t have many good mixups or block strings after.
final thought on rising tackle… as far as a wakeup, it beats almost all ground attacks clean which is fine to know, but it’s probably not going to be a good idea unless you are very low on life and are only risking losing the last of a character.
one dumb g00k- using raging storm against p and k groove people jumping at you is fine… my intent is not to have you kids scared, it’s to teach you to shake some shitty habits you might have. oh yeah, wake up crack counter doesn’t work because it doens’t come out all instantly like geese’s counters. i think somewhere i said not to use crack counters at all, and i’ll stick by that. The few times when it’s beneficial to use it are not worth learning until you are playing better people.
Rock’s crack counters should really only be used for the following
to stop sakura rc hurricane kick… another option is to jump straight up if you think it’s coming, then come down with rh into a combo or just a sweep if you want to keep it simple and get a mixup.
sometimes around sagats standing fierce range mid crack counter is ok to throw out since it’s really hard to punish it with rock (other way is to make him whiff walk up sweep).
oh yeah, and everyone… low forward, fierce elbow is shitty, here is why… you can argue with it in theory but these are my observations from real play.
some people have been around the threads saying rock has a good jab short forward hard edge bnb combo, but don’t listen to them, if you can’t combo forward from a good distance into hard edge then it’s not a good idea. it’s kinda like shotos and their fireballs… crouching forward fireball will combo from up close, but it’s not always going to work, which is why nobody does fireball combos with shotos… everyone either does jab forward super, sweep, hurricane kick, sweep into hurricane kick, ken’s ugly kick, etc. just test out the usefulness of low forward elbow in matches, it’s not practical, most of the time you might as well just do standing fierce elbow… at least you know it will hit 100 percent of the time.
I didn’t mean by her cross-up, I just meant more or a deep jump-in. As for it trading with shit, I beat EVERY high priority jump-in with it, every type of angle CLEAN, you must not be doing it deep enough. I was also saying the situation was similar to what Buk said, not the exact same thing. I aslo used lp rising tackle to wake-up on a meaty Bison slide and Kyo’s mp’s, it’s great wake up when I use it. Chun-li’s j.lk will NOT beat a fp rising tackle, what makes the hp rising tackle good also is the fact that it cannot be air blocked deep. But, yes of course, s.rh is usually the best AA option. As for Kcxj’s frame data knowledge, I haven’t found any of it to be false.
i dont because
A- s.rh works better imo
B- c.mp looks more like a c.fierce of a shoto
C- you move forward with a c.fierce, it may not always be what you want…
even though a c.fierce is sometimes more usefull than a s.rh, say hes simply out of range, a well timed c.rh may do it.
oh and it hits standing opponents by advancing. not a always expected move…
You guys talk about it like it’s really easy, and I’ve seen it in videos and shit, but I cannot seem to combo anything off of the laser. The combo is always like 360XXlaser in the corner, then they do a s.hk or cr.hk XX raging storm. Is there some trick to doing this, or is the timing just really tight, or what?
The trick is to release the laser as early as possible. It has 12 total hit frames. Ideally, you don’t want the laser to hit until hit frame number 12. You recover in time to do the d.HK then.
go to training mode and look at the lines in the background to help time your laser. after you get used to the timing. just practice so you can do it without the lines.
OK, I spent some time in training mode and finally got it. I was just timing it wrong. It doesn’t seem to be much use except maybe in A groove. Or at least I usually don’t try to land rage run shiftXX360 in the corner unless i’m playing A.
Although Rock’s d.HK hits fast, it doesn’t have a lot of hit frames at all. Only 3 hit frames, then a ton of recovery. You need to use your d.MK, far s.MP, low jump straight up HK, and random qcb+LP instead to discourage Sakura from wanting to walk up and kick you.
This is definately a not a good match for Rock. He needs to take more risks if he wants to win. Throw out those counters, go for lot of 360 throws, and use your low jump HK up close. Most importantly, JD! Against scrub Sak, you really want to discourage her from doing random roll cancels on you all day. JD all her stuff and toss her all over the place.
Oh yeah, don’t let Sak get close once she gets meter. d.LP, link CC, d.MK is really cheap against K. You can’t just JD her first hit, then super like you can when she activates out of nowhere.
Sak seems to be perfectly safe if i JD everyhit(except for the extra hit of the hurricane kick, but for some odd reason a lot of people dont’ do that when i’m JDing)
even JDing everyhit of the fireball, she seems to be safe. best i’ve gotten is throwing right after, if the opponent doesn’t try to jab.
sak’s s.rh beats out rock’s c.rh. also since sak’s safe after a lot of moves, doing c.rh to poke/zone has come to hurt me more than them since they can jump and dive kick me after each safe blockstring, so rock realy loses his one of his best normals against sak.
far s.mp: i’ve rarely used this move, can sak duck this?
Sak can’t duck your far s.MP when she’s sticking out a roundhouse. Plus far s.MP is a quick whiffing move too. Think of it like Sakura’s own far s.MP. It IS slightly different, but the idea is the same. Stick the move out early so whatever the opponent does will be stuffed.
You need to do your counters on reaction to Sakura dive kicks. But the thing is, she can whiff them when she wants too. Far s.HK is too slow. d.MP hits at totally the wrong angle. That’s why I said to use Kyo instead. :lol: He can dp all that bullshit. If only Rock had a meatier hitting sweep like Chun-li’s… Anyway, I use j.MK a lot whenever Sak comes at me at a tough angle.
The RC qcf+HP Sakura’s do to you over and over in the corner… If you JD all the hits, Sak is at +/-0. Whatever happens from there is totally up to the players. If Sak’s just going nuts on autopilot when she has you cornered with that move, you can low jump over her fireball (RC’d or not) and hit her with lj.HK xx super.
Again, I always go for a lot of throws when I play against Sak. The 360 has a ton of range, and it grabs all of Sakura’s RC attempts when you’re in range. Remember both the RC hurricane and fireball hit mad slow (dp+P is another story, but that’s risky for Sakura anyway).
Anybody have any more tips? I’m curious as to what else I can do to beat her with K-Rock myself.
hard as fuck to do damage on sak with rock… you can’t do elbows because at almost all ranges she can stand short uppercut you. you can’t whiff sweeps or throw many repukkens cause her roll is demon fast, and she has fuckin unstoppable divekick
so anyways, jump up rh is good against her, i like it a lot more then low jump rh since you don’t have that lag when you hit the ground… instead of jd’ing rc hurricane kicks, just counter them, you have enough time to see them if she trys doing it from too far. if she’s close, yeah, just jd them shits and knock her down since she doesn’t have any crazy wakeup moves. run through games are kinda hard to play against her since she can just short short short you. when she gets up… make her block standing short and mix up between low short forward and 360 throw.
so yeah, i forgot the biggest problem which is s. rh, she can whore this move and you can’t do much about it. try counterpoking with sweep but be careful… if you miss and she trys to roll she’s gonna combo you.
uh so yeah, only way you’re really gonna do damage with k rock, is to jd until you get meter, then it’s pretty guaranteed you’ll hit her with a super in one way or another.
C’mon… most ppl have trouble parrying and JD’ing most successive hitting moves like Tiger Uppercuts no matter how much they practice.