Hey man thanks for the avatar its awsome hey where is this madness game opening let me know by texting me I might be in class so just send me email with a adress if they can to Zerog65@gmail.com. With my phone I will be able to get it.
@al:vega’s back flips are more of a gimmick. They are unsafe 95% of the time but your point is well taken. Capcom seems to be nerfing already bad characters to the ground while barely touching others minus a few notable exceptions. Unfortunately this isn’t surprising given their track record.
@cola: This soft opening of madness gaming seems like an excellent opportunity to showoff our community to the management of the store and show them our desire to work with them to strengthen the community and help them strive as a business. I would recommend as much of Cola as possible show up in support. I’ll try to make it as well if transportation permits.
Or, you can learn to defend properly rather than throw out a move on wakeup.
I personally think nerfing more reversals people use on wakeup is for the better. Maybe not take them out in general, but just do like they are in this case and let them be punished easier if the attacking player anticipates it correctly. I just think with some of these situations the way it is, people never learn to defend properly (blocking correctly/throw techs), then when they play a good player offline they get rushed down and raped bc they are trying to use reversals on wakeup constantly.
Look, I completely agree with Fuerte needing some buffs. I don’t think he needs THAT many though, as his gameplay is more designed around mindgames and gimmicks to begin with, and he’s had those since vanilla. I think having a quicker st.LP will help a bit, but it’s still not enough. And I dunno what will be enough, bc I’m no Fuerte expert or anything. I don’t think ANYONE could be nerfed as hard as SSF Gen though…that crap was just plain cold blooded of Capcom…
Wake up reversals ARE a proper defense. If you played as El Fuerte, you’d see he’s very limited to what he can do when being rushed/reset (for example, with Sakura). Guacamole Leg Drop has invincibility at startup, so it’s enough to get you out of a bind. NOTHING else he does is safe or effective against a rush down. NOTHING, other than two things: the startup invincibility on Propeller Tortilla (only works on an opponent’s dashing move or jump in), and the startup invincibility on Guacamole Leg Drop.
EX Habanero Back Dash is only effective when the opponent is not trying for a breaking move or throwing you. Additionally, I’d rather not have to waste an EX bar to run away, especially when many characters don’t need to.
Guacamole Leg Drop didn’t even recover fast enough to throw someone without them being able to tech it. If I woke up with it to someone trying to throw me, I could land and try to throw them only to be teched. There was barely an advantage, if any. In fact, I could get thrown or hit before I could try to grab. Increasing the recovery frames of it makes no sense when it wasn’t advantageous in the first place.
What’s worse is that, with Guacamole being a crap anti-air to begin with (and c.HP not being much better), jumping into El Fuerte is now free. Well, not when Ultra 1 is out, but still.
Nerfing Fuerte is like nerfing Gen. The question is why. Why nerf a character for the sake of nerfing? I would very much like to know whose opinions they heard this time that warranted such a cold response to El Fuerte. Especially since it’s not like he’s unbeatable; the damn splashes can be focused, the throws can be backdashed, his links are pathetic and he has no priority.
Right, I see what you’re saying here, but I still just think that defending properly on wakeup is a much more consistent and safer option than throwing out a reversal on wakeup. This goes for any character, not just Fuerte. I actually did main Fuerte for like 2 months during vanilla, but ended up dropping him for Sim, so I do understand how hard it is to be rushed down when you’re using him. Thing is, if you can block/tech correctly and efficiently, you can create that breathing room to re-establish your offense/mixup game. Reversals are great on wakeup, and should be used of course, but most of the time a good defense is much more reliable. The reversals should be mixed in on occasion to keep your opponent on his toes.
Rushdown characters with a good reversal on wake-up don’t make sense. If you character rapes people on their wake-up, why should they have a good wake-up. El fuerte wake-up game should be shitty anyway. I think el fuerte will be fine and stop complaining. Watch they give sim like no recover teleport and 500 stun standing fierce or something stupid. I want to see guile and honda changes.
Is it weird that just gave me a boner?
@ U-Volt: lol XD
@ Cola: After Me, Dwaine, Pat, Phillip, Kimchi and Thomas went to Madness Gaming, I can honestly say that I’m VERY pleased with the venue. The space is huge, they’ve got drinks/snacks for cheap and the staff is cool as hell. Mike, Sean and Trinity seem like they really want to make Madness into a solid arcade. I’m hoping that we get a tournament planned sometime this week and have it in a month or two. A Bi-Weekly tournament would be good for both the community and Madness Gaming. Like Pat said, I’d love to see a lot of support for this Arcade.
I’ll try streaming casuals either at my place or Nashi this week. I’m also going to buy a mixer, webcam and a couple of headphones for commentary. Let’s keep Cola positive and I’m expecting very big things to happen for the entire scene, in the next couple of months.
Heh… I hosted my school gaming club at madness gaming after school was done for the day.
I had to work so I could’nt make maybe next time
Why do people have to ruin my favorite shows?
Refer to thread title! 
You’re right, they usually need 2 (DP xx FADC) instead of Elf’s 1.
Like Dwaine said, giving a rush down character a great move with invincibility that’s hard to punish completely disrupts the main basis of SF game play (rock, paper, scissors suddenly becomes rock, paper, shotgun to the mouth).
I would hope that you couldn’t throw them for whiffing a DP when they whiffed a throw. Now they’re making sure people can’t just Guacomole > mash throw to prevent from being punished.
Abel’s anti-airs are all situational, and while they’re not all that bad once you understand and can apply them, they’re still normals and some characters can jump in for free on him. It’s part of the sacrifice of having more offensive strength, he loses out on a result in defense.
Also, companies will make changes like this to try and steer the more casual player into understanding how the character is supposed to be played. A lot of people playing Fuerte might try to play him like a regular SF character, which you can’t. He has his own awkward way of approaching the SF system.
Fuerte is a lot like Abel also in the sense of that he NEEDS to score a knockdown to be effective. How many other characters have oki like Fuerte?
You have to rush fuerte down. If you let him get his offense going, you’re in mixup hell
Pah. Pahaha, bed sheets.
Madness Gaming looked pretty straight. Hopefully the kids (who’ll probably be their main revenue source) don’t ruin it.
You’re right on saying that blocking properly and teching is a better defense, but in close quarters other than RSF, Fuerte can’t compete. When being rushed down severely by Sakura, especially when being reset and she lands before you do, it’s EXTREMELY difficult to predict a low, a throw or an overhead or anything, really. That’s why he runs so much; his close game is nothing to get excited about, especially against someone who knows what Fuerte’s limits are.
Fuerte can get perfects on good players; heck, Daigo got perfected by Fuerte once, didn’t he? But the problem is that once they’re familiar with how to deal with him, there really isn’t much you CAN do as a Fuerte player. His splash isn’t armor breaking (THANK GOD), you can backdash out of most things, if you’re facing a Blanka or Honda they’re pretty much unpunishable (unless very quick against Blanka).
Can he at least have a way out of getting rushed down? Even after teching, Blanka and Honda simply keep going.
Then there’s the Propeller Tortilla getting its invincibility taken away, after SSF4 lowered its damage. Why can’t I punish a jump in? It’s not like his c.HP is good enough for anti-air, or his Guacamole doesn’t trade for the worst.
Then there’s the normals. A lot of people say “Oh, people just forget El Fuerte has normals”. I would LOVE to forget that he has normals, because they’re pretty shitty. Close s.FP is only good because it cancels into two things: Quesadilla Bomb (which no one but me cares about) and Habanero Dash. Then again it’s only really considered good because after Habanero’s startup and stop, FP is fast enough to hit again. Yay, RSF.
Close s.HK is only good when the opponent is already in focus crumple, and only because it can juggle into Guacamole or the super. Then again most people don’t use the super, and instead choose to dash in, forgo s.HK for RSF and repeat.
Standing jab can be mashed but crouching cannot. Then again, jab doesn’t give him enough frame advantage to link into anything or cancel out into anything.
f+MK is a good attack as an overhead, but is punishable on block. Neither s.MK nor c.MK do nothing worth mentioning.
So his normals don’t link. He has no combos, so he can’t naturally rush down. He can’t even option select anything other than his dash. So we’ve established that all he can do is run away, punish jump ins and wakeup mixups.
His wakeup mixups are only a problem if you’re afraid of hitting MP+MK simultaneously because of some medically-diagnosed phobia, of if you’re deaf. When he yells out like a goddamn maniac, hit the buttons to absorb, dash, punish the ridiculous -13 on block with anything your heart desires. When he doesn’t, backdash or crouch, punish the whiff.
I guess we’ve now established all he can do is run away and punish jump ins.
Let’s add recovery on one of his escaping moves. OK, maybe he can at least punish jump ins.
Let’s remove invincibility on Tortilla so he can’t punish jump ins. (And add startup to the U2, although I do agree on nerfing U2 entirely)
What the hell does he have? Properly defending by blocking and teching can’t save a fucked up character who got nerfed so bad he can’t even do his job properly. Next, they might announce that Tostada will whiff on crouching opponents. They might as well cut his balls off and call him La Fuerte. He sure has the vitality total for it.
@guitalex2007
welcome to sf4.
imo, i don’t think his nerfs are THAT much dramatic. What you might think has already been written on paper bout him might not even be That bad. Also the changes that they mentioned may not be the only changes that were done.I don’t see his overall game plan changing that much. His oki game is still retarded. and also… It’s Capcom, and they are weird like that.
Don’t hate on the kids
Once again Capcom fanboys are bad mouthing SNK for messing up the netcode for kof2002um. After all many members of DIMPS were ex-employees for SNK.
Hey Cola: I’ve finally pulled together the final details and we officially have a tournament slated with Madness gaming! [-columbia-sc-bi-weekly-battles-ssfiv-kof2002-um-ssf2t-hd-remix-256511/#post9786202"]Here’s](http://shoryuken.com/f7/[11-27-2010) the link to the tournament thread and I hope to see plenty of support from the Columbia, SC scene. I’ll be updating this info on our SC Tourney blog and changing some of the menus.
I’m thinking about adding one or two other side tourneys in the lineup, if there’s enough interest. We’ve got this venue for as long as we want and it cost me just $75 to reserve, which is a steal for what we’re getting (Huge venue, Internet, Arcade Machines and drinks). I’m also making this a bi-weekly event, so Cola can get more tournament experience.
I hope to see some of you guys at Nashi tomorrow and chill out 
I’ll be having my Cammy practice, while watching Black Lagoon ^.^
Edit: I’m planning on having a casual session at Madness Gaming this Saturday, so I can test the internet connection for streaming and play games all day. Right now, the staff is only charging $5 per person for us to hook up our setups and play.
Also, if the venue fees we get exceed $75, I’d really like to put that money towards streaming equipment (headsets, mixer, better webcam) and monitors for future tournaments. That way, we can actually see how the extra money is being spent.
I’ve also updated our casual matches onto the media section of the blog and this where I’ll be posting our stream vids too. I didn’t see the point of having a section for streams, when we already have a section for vids.