Ok for anyone that didn’t know(If anyone still lurks around here ^_^).
Here are the Changes so far
Command change - Changed command for Shock Wave from “41236+P” to “63214+K”
- Changed command for Ionic Vortex from “41236+PPP” to “63214+KKK”
- Roll Attack “6+HP” no longer activates with "3+HP"
HP - Reduced frames by 2F (On hit +8F/On block +3F)
- Push back on block reduced
cr. HP - Can now be cancelled
Sliding Combo (successful) - Reduced frames by 5F on hit
- Reduced frames by 15F on block
- Now launches straight upward on hit
Shock Grenade - Increased overall frames from 38F->43F
Shock Wave - Push back on block reduced
EX Amp Combo - Now has same move value as H Amp Combo
Special move meter gain:
Amp Combo: whiff 0->10/On hit 40->20
Amp Combo Follow Up 1: whiff 0->5/On hit 40->15
Amp Combo Follow Up 2: whiff 0->10/On hit 30->20
Thunder Drop: whiff 0->10
Shock Grenade: whiff 0->5
Lightning Hook: whiff 0->10/On hit 30->60
Shock Wave: On hit 40->50
Changes I would have liked to see for Cole:
Reduced start up and added frame advantage on all of his normals across the board, I know he is a zoner but when you only got 750 health it gets a little depressing knowing that half of your normals are -2 on block. Buffing the Heavy punches is great, but his mediums and lights could have used some love, his light amp rekka should be -1 on block mp 0 or +1 on block and Hp should be +2 considering the startup(only the first hit of the rekkas of course), all rekkas should cause a bound while the Hp rekka does the most damage, Shockwaves should be -4 on block considering the huge gap it leaves for reversals, faster start up on thunder drop, and lastly either a health buff to 900 or any of the above listed changes.
For a character with 750 health and crappy reversal options he seems unfinished, his rekkas and shockwaves shoulbe be able to combo into from a max range crouching medium kick no question about that. Other than that, I am liking what I see in 2013 and hope the best of success.
You can see my thoughts on the changes and what I would have liked in the other 2013 topic. Even so you gave me some things I hadn’t thought about before. Of course I need to preface everything with the old refrain that he is a console exclusive, tournament illegal character and that they won’t be making him a good or even average character anytime soon. In fact I am surprised that he is getting any changes at all.
Since Lightning Hook is such a godly antiair, I often forget that Cole has absolutely nothing that acts as a reversal move. If he is knocked down once he is pretty much dead, especially with the combination of how much oki setups have improved in this game’s lifespan and the incoming roll recovery punishes. In fact, does Cole have any kind of invincibility whatsoever on any of his moves?
Again, I think Cole’s hp and poor frame data is the result of them not trying to make him desirable to 360 players so I imagine those will not be changed despite how freaking easy it would be.
As I hinted at before I believe that Cole will actually be getting nerfed on account of the change of sfxt’s base mechanics in 2013. Their goal is to make it faster with less keep away: slower recoverable health means gaining back everything Cole loses with quick tags will be an insurmountable challenge, buffing everyone’s anti-airs makes Cole’s godly one seem only above-average, and the increase in damage and juggleness of much of the cast means even more dying in two touches.
Well, we Cole players always have Playstation All Stars to switch too!
My friend you forget that Cole has grenade oki, with the nerf to roll Cole literally has safe pressure on all forms of wake up making him a monster man. Also if they attempt to roll, slide combo to punish it!(EX Drop is invincible on start up) and his rushdown is under rated bro he has some good frames by the way actually examples, all his lights except standing light kick start up in 5 frames, cr light +1 on block and +5 on hit, st lp +2 on block and +6 on hit, cr lk 0 on block and +4 on hit, his medium punches are awesome as well cr mp start up 6 frames +2 on block +7 on hit, great frame trap tool, st mp is your go to range poke, has almost near identical range of standing medium kick and start up is 6 frames, neutral on block, +3/+4 on hit, not too sure, frame data says +3 I remember linking into a crouching light once. As you see Cole really lacks good heavy normals, Standing Heavy kick is actually -3 on block which is great considering the range and it beats lows during active frames which is decent, standing Hp just needs a start up reduction to 10 or 9 frames and crhp punch also needs a reduction to 7 frames so we can link cr mp into cr hp into HP Amp Combo for good damage and oki.
But yeah, haven’t posted the frame data because I have to write it all down in Microsoft Word, also playing an exclusive means just that bro, we gotta learn to deal with it, Cole can never be on 360 cause of licensing issues being a PS3 exclusive and what not.
Wow, the block/hit frames are all much better than I anticipated that is indeed interesting. The lights being 5 frames are real causes for concern though I believe, because even though almost all the 3f jabs are being turned to 4f, a lot of really strong 5 framers (like Bob’s) are being made to 4. But the previous stuff means Cole has blockstrings, which I thought maybe he didn’t.
What exactly is grenade oki, do you mean similar things to that old Volzar trap? Can you show vids of you doing that/we can have some matches where you do it to me? Do you think the 5 added frames to Nade’s startup will prevent us from doing it in 2013?
How is the startup of roll attack? Given his godliek forward dash I think Cole might have an interesting time doing blockstring EXCADC into roll attack or c.lk. sorry cannot find cole thread so I am posting this here.
Grenade oki is all about predicting if the opponent will roll or not, meaning you’ll have to choose between LP, MP and HP nade depending on if you think he’s going to roll and what you did before the knockdown (shockwave, whip, super).
The only thing I’d want for Cole are: Better pokes (cr.hp getting buffed is a great thing, still they need to make s.hk safer and give cr.mk a better hitbox and faster startup.), cr.lk would reset juggled opponents (making the CADC tech I talked about a long time ago great whenever you get a combo, you could do stuff like cr.lk cadc (dash under) into a lot of thing) and MORE HEALTH PLEASE. Oh and make it so that he isn’t hurt as much as other characters by electrical attacks, because that is just plain silly.
Cole does have blockstrings and some frametraps, especially with the opponent in the corner and mixing up stuff using cr.mp/s.mp xx nades, if you predict the guy jumping, throw in a whip.
Ok so if you hit the grenade on wakeup what happens exactly? You do 40 damage and things are set back to normal? It is not like you can follow them up, can you get the explosion to hit if you time it right?
I remember seeing the nade they have to block so you can come in with thunder drop but that kind of stuff is too risky for me, I guess I feel better knowing it is safe on block.
Resets are nice but a little silly to ask for, seeing as only a select few characters have jugglable resets in this game. What is the c.lk cadc thing you mentioned long ago? You say dash under, can you cross people up with it but it doesn’t give you the frames to do anything with it?
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The CADC under is after the ground bounce from HP amp combo => HP AC x3, cr.lp cadc. By delaying it slightly you can make it so that Cole doesn’t actually cross under the opponent. The only thing that makes this reset useless is the fact that the juggled opponent is not resetted by a cr.lp/cr.lk.
Nade on wake up can give you amazing pressure, it’s not just to do a thunder drop. With a nicely placed nade, you can do something like f.hp (nade explode), f.hp and confuse the hell out of the opponent with nice mixups. This also easily forces the opponent to mash a reversal, so you can bait it and punish hard.
Sorry for the late replies bro’s, a man needs his sleep! Roll Attack starts up in 20 frames has 2/3 don’t remember active frames which beat lows and is -4 on block plus 2 on hit, if you meaty it you can combo into his basic low hit which leads in 230 something damage or you could go st lp into launcher for good damage, grenade oki basically means just using a grenade on a knocked down opponent and mix up from there that’s where the decent volzar trap comes in, its only use is to make thunder drop safer on start up.
Oh and as for resets here are two easy one’s which is a true 50/50 on rollers I believe, Fullscreen combo into shockwave and then plant a light grenade, then forward dashx2, if they roll they get crossed up by the nade if they don’t you have fullscreen zoning powah with Cole, you can either go into slide, back off, charge a counter hit store etc improvise oh and on wake up you can use Cole’s back dash which is pretty good for escaping some pressure and you can bait dp’s with it.The other one involves the HP Amp Combo, after the ground bounce go into cr lp, cmp, into delayed light grenade, once you get the timing down, the nade will sit RIGHT next to the opponent which is perfect for mixup’s with the explosion, this trap will also be made easier with the startup nerf to nades and is an amaxing trap, you can go into crlk into HP Amp Combo because of the nade giving extra hiut stun, I have a lot more traps and resets I want to share so pleas guys tell me what time you can be on, we really should have a lobby tomorrow if possible, I wanna show all the new tech I’ve discovered :P.