Cody USF4 General Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
101

What about f+HK would make it broken that doesn’t make Vega’s F+HK in USF4 (+2 on block, hits crouching, is airborne, same startup as Cody’s F+HK and causes a free juggle state) or Dan’s LK Danku (breaks armor) or Sakura’s LK Tatsu (breaks armor) or Bison’s LK Scissor kick? These are all moves usable in similar ways to Cody’s F+HK.

I’m legitimately asking what you see that would make it OP that doesn’t make those other moves OP in your opinion? Am I missing something? I agree it’d be a huge deal for Cody I just don’t think it’d be OP and I’m wondering if maybe I’m not seeing something.

102

Because it does 110 damage and 200 stun on its own, and you can easily follow it up for heavy damage and heavy stun? I don’t think any of those other moves are comparable - Sakura’s tatsu for dmg/stun maybe, but at least you have to do some links for that!

If crack kick becomes good for blowing up stand tech attempts then characters with good reversals will just end up going for them more often instead and characters with poor reversals will just down-back even more…

103

@Eternal @GroundedSF I understand your question Eternal, but I don’t quite agree with what you say Grounded. For me the reason is not the move in itself, but what it does in the metagame. The reason for this change is imo, to force your opponents to stop stand teching, and force them to play a dangerous game of doing reversals and pressing buttons. This scenario will make Cody hit more frequently combos that do around 500 damage. You see, the downside to crouchteching Dan is not that big of a deal, you’ll eat around 300 damage, same with Vega, albeit it’s a bit higher but costs one meter. Sakura is now -1 after lk tatsu, so it will not be the same anymore.

104

So what did you disagree with exactly? That people will go for reversals more often? If crack kick is going to blow up stand tech and backdash for a lot of characters, then surely they’ll be more inclined to take the risk of a reversal? It seems to me that ultimately that would result in Cody getting more punishes off baited reversals and punishes of stand tech/backdash with crack kick into whatever. A lot of rounds are going to end a hell of a lot quicker…

105

@GroundedSF Well I didn’t exactly disagree, just meant that my main point was not in the fact that it does 110 damage or 200 stun, but what it does with to the over all game plan. Do you understand or am I not making any sense?

106

He disagrees with my thinking that F+HK should hit crouching like other hop kicks and moves used for baiting throw techs. He is fine with it blowing up stand tech and backdashes in USF4. I personally feel it should be airborne later so Cody can be frame trapped himself without a get out free card of tech + F+HK which would beat traps and throw. However if they made it airborne later I’d want it to be able to hit crouching and (if need be) reduce the damage by like 15-20.

Sakura only lost 1 blockstun though, she still has 6F active on the attack so she can make LK Tatsu up to +4F on block potentially if done meaty. Plus she has way better walk speed + faster normals. And LK Tatsu is a special move so it builds meter, and does chip, and can be canceled to (making it a stronger frame trap tool. crLP or f+MP - F+HK is still going to be a huge 12F gap on block compared to Sakura doing crMK - LK Tatsu which is only a 3F gap on block.

The other thing is you gotta remember that unlike Vega/Dan/Sakura/Cammy/Rufus/Balrog ect Cody is really slow and as such his ability to bait AND avoid an attack is much lower than these characters. He cannot shimmy nearly as well, this means he is often forced to block attacks in situations others would avoid them and this can make it easier to push him back out. Also his low mobility means that it’s harder for him to get into the position he wants to be to start frame trapping in the first place compared to those characters. He has slower walk speed than any of them and cannot alter his jump arc. It seems to me that he SHOULD be better than them when up close as it’s harder for him to get there and stay there. If the video we saw from the loctest is any indication his backdash is still really poor and his walk speed appears unchanged or barely changed.

Personally, I would take a little bit of a damage nerf for more consistency for Cody to be able to land that damage. Right now I feel that one of his biggest areas of weakness is a threat to back up his frame traps. I think delayed wake up will help his defense just as much as it weakens his offense since he already is kind of lacking on really scary stuff after a forward throw and his back throw is mostly just safe jump shenanigans with empty jump - low or fj HK or fj LP tic throw but delayed wake up means that wont work anymore most likely.

I’m def curious to see how much the delayed wake up frame count is, if he can use crMK to meaty both a normal hard knockdown AND delayed hard knockdown it’d be interesting. The most useful part of his F+HK being airborne I think will simply be corpse hopping potentially making him a bit more tricky on a knockdown.

107

Showed a little cody on the dreamhack stream, backdash looks about 1.5-2x the distance, not much else to report.

108

Yeah I’m really happy with that, bit pissed that James didn’t show Cody’s back walkspeed though. -_-

109

Yeah I saw it too, it looked a lot better in my opinion. At least 2 times the distance.

110

Ok good then! The video I saw it looked almost identical. Anyone got a copy of that video? Apparently the stream for it doesn’t have “past broadcasts” listed at all.

111

Caught it too, backdash actually did look better. Forward walkspeed looked the same, however the backwards walkspeed was the problem, which he didn’t show.

112

I heard he looked a bit faster walkspeed wise…anyone got the video?

113

He did show both walkspeeds. I’d say it’s noticeable, the forward walkspeed buff. But the backwards, I didn’t notice any change at all.

114

Did he even get a walkspeed buff? There’s no mention of it in the change logs.

115

@Eternal The corpse hopping might also help in charge character match-ups. Regarding our previous discussion concerning the f.HK, it’s just my opinion in what I want Cody as a character to be able to do. I think of him as a good, honest character, and I don’t really want to play a character with similar nonsense as Sakura and the likes… Of course it would be great if he had that, but for me, that would be cheap, and I don’t want that.

116

Going to Super Arcade now, they have Ultra so I’ll test some stuff. No filming is allowed now but I believe there will be a Capcom Fighters stream eventually.

117

@GrabMasterFlex Sweet, please report back to us ASAP! :slight_smile:

118

Ok, didn’t get to test too many things, mainly just played.

His increased walk speed is pretty noticeable, and pretty good imo, not too fast or slow.

Crack kick being airborne is pretty nice, plays out like it does in xT, didnt do many setups off lk ruffian, into corpse hop, might just be a nice gimmick.

However after h. CU I did dash dash and an instant crack kick and it crossed up just as they were getting up, pretty hard to see/block.

EX CU is no longer throw invincible, did a reversal one and got thrown out of it on my wakeup.

EX CU hasn’t gotten stuffed, instead it traded, enough to get a cr. FP, so U2 would be possible.

Back dash goes a little farther, seems to recover faster as well.

Other than that I tried comboing off c mk, don’t think it’s possible, might just be even or +1/2 on hit, didn’t get any CH off it so couldn’t try to combo off CH.

All in all it was really fun playing him, hope he keeps the buffs he has.

I should be going at least one more day while they have it, any questions/requests let me know.

119

EX CU being throw invincible is not that big of a deal with the f.HK buff. Jesus christ, that EX CU trade into U2 though, I’m not sure they are going to keep that. Without thinking about it that much, it seems too good. Like Sagat trade DP xx U1.

Is the forward dash the same? Is it possible to do a cross up after a hp cu? Did you notice any difference in the walkspeed/dashing regarding setup potential?

Good stuff, thank you for posting!

120

What’s the deal with regular zonk FADC, GMF? That’s all I really want to know…that and what cr. MK (which I know you tried) is on hit.

EX CU no longer being throw inv if it became a true reversal is something I said a while back. It seems only fair tbh.