(From original post:)
[INDENT=1]Seems this matchup could go either way depending on the player.
- c.MK beats her s.HP and s.HK clean since they hit high and it slides under.
- Bad Stone vs Fireballs
- Hasan Shu has a hard time going over Bad Stone in most cases beats it out.
Basically it seems like this match-up comes down to the zoning game. For the simple fact Cody cant pressure Chun too hard when she has meter. Seems in some cases your pokes out prioritize hers , and your projectile seems to have the advantage here.[/INDENT]
[INDENT=1]I know some people were saying they were having problems with the Chun matchup, and I was at first also. Played a set with a good Chun on live to try to figure some stuff out, and here’s what I came up with.
As everyone was saying (and was fairly obvious), c.MK beats her s.HP and s.HK clean since they hit high and it slides under. I used this liberally from mid range to get him to stop hitting those buttons.
When he was trying to run away with fireballs, I found it effective to just out-run-away with Bad Stone. Her fireball can’t really keep up, and you can gain positioning by dashing once after a Stone. A few times of seeing that sequence made him weary to try to keep up, and he started trying to do other things.
One thing that’s worth noting is that Chun can’t just Hasan Shu over Bad Stones for free. This was his go-to reaction after he started getting beat in the fireball war, but the Hasan Shu has to be timed a certain way or she will simply run into the Stone. She has to Hasan Shu after the rock is somewhat close, so it’s lower to the ground so she can get over it. Therefore, you predict the Hasan Shu is coming, you can Bad Stone and hold the stone slightly to delay it. If she Hasan Shus on reaction to the pick up, that delay will cause her to run right into it, and as a bonus, each time he tosses the rock to himself, the stun goes up by 10 on the Stone :bgrin:
So after that stuff got understood, we found ourselves at mid range a lot, just kinda playing footsies, and without his s.HP and s.HK feeling strong, he was using a lot of s.MP which beats Cody’s c.MK, and is his last super long range poke (but basically the best one). I quickly found that t.MP beats her s.MP clean every time. As a bonus, you hit her CH and I was able to link sweep on reaction multiple times.
Probably the biggest problem I has was maintaining pressure on her wakeup. I haven’t looked at frame data for Chun, but EX SBK seems significantly faster in this game. It was used to be braindead easy to safejump, and now in training mode, I was unable to safe jump it period, which makes me think it’s now 3f start up :wasted:
So between EX SBK and her ridiculous backdash, I was kind of having trouble maintaining pressure. I’m going to mess around with some option selects to see if I can get something against her backdash, but even then, if my prediction on EX SBK bring 3f now is true, then any OS designed to beat backdash will be vulnerable to EX SBK[/INDENT]
[*]Ganex says: "Chun is one of cody’s hardest matchups imo. You’re basically forced to play a grounded zoning game against her but she has more options with her fireball and better pokes. Good chuns will keep you out easily with her many post fireball anti air options. U2 is the ultra of choice imo to punish unsafe fireballs/focuses.
cr.mk beats out her s.rh and s.fp, but chuns s.mp beats codys slide
cr.mp is also good as a counter poke, and remember at any time if chun starts pressing too many buttons either bingo or backdash/walkback ex ruffian
fishing for focus works well on chun too since cody’s focus is fast
use it to punish obvious hazan shus"
Crono_x says: “find a way to get in and watch out for her wake-up Ex spinning bird kick. stay one character length and watch out for her pokes. when you see an opening, F.mp and continue the combo anyway you see fit.”
Sanchez says: "Whoever said “Throw Rocks at Chun”–THAT SHIT IS BRILLIANT! You don’t walk to her. You make her come to you! Cody’s pokes are better at stopping Chun from coming in than trying to beat her out defensive pokes. B.MP shuts down jump fierce and roundhouse. Slide is a great counterpoke to her MP. If she doesn’t have meter and you find yourself inside be sure to STAY IN HER ASS.
Her sweep is one of the few lows that Zonk beats clean.
Fun note-If she tries to get in by focusing rocks she’s absorbing the stun damage from them. Which is pretty huge for a projectile. If she ain’t careful the next combo will stun her. I seen it!"
MinhHoang says you safejump Chun by holding up-forward after ending a combo in fierce Criminal Upper.
MixupMaster says: vs chun(a few tidbits,i hope they are useful)
-b.mp and h.rk beats her jumpins
-if she likes to walk up and grab use cr.lk(cast 4 ron will grab the shit out of you @.@)
-rocks are very useful in spacing in this match up but be careful of ultra 1
-if you bait EX sbk you can ultra 2 on reaction but honestly i recommend ultra 1 to make the thought of jumping unbearable
Pat-tlick15 says: Are you sure ex CU beats low jabs free? I tried messing around with it vs Chun’s cr.lk, cr.lp and I get stuffed at times, other times I straight beat it.
Ice_rei says: Against Chun it’s more about counterpoking and using the right poke against hers. Jumping in against chun is not smart at all, especially when she has Ultra 2.
[*]Binkley says: Also for Chun I have this basic notepad that I’m using:
rocks >> hazanshu
cr. mk >> st. HP/HK
f + mp >> st. MP
f + HK >> cr. HK
focus a lot if she is in love with poking you (thought not on the jump in because they usually jump in with FPx2)
don’t whiff moves / do ANY unsafe moves if Chun have full super you’re gonna eat a super in the face. Don’t throw rocks if she has U1.
[*]HunterSFL replies: The list was looking perfect until the last line. I’m not home so I don’t have my Xbox to test right now, but I’m 99% sure that t.HK will never beat Chun’s c.HK. I’m pretty sure it can’t go over it, because c.HK hits too high up. If someone can verify this, that would be great.
Binkley said: ↑
[INDENT=1]focus a lot if she is in love with poking you (thought not on the jump in because they usually jump in with FPx2)[/INDENT]
This is true, basically, but you can’t try to abuse focus, because Chun does have good ways of dealing with it. But yeah, overall, she’s fairly vulnerable to focus.
[INDENT=1]don’t whiff moves / do ANY unsafe moves if Chun have full super you’re gonna eat a super in the face. Don’t throw rocks if she has U1.[/INDENT]
Correct. s.MP, link Super is a strong whiff punish. And if the player has good reflexes, even Fake Bad Stones will get hit by U1, so it’s pretty risky if you’re not sure if they have the reflexes or not.
[*]Binkley replies: I think you might be right, I’ll try to test later. I do think I’ve had it work but what happens is you each whiff…which really isn’t ideal but you do end up closer to Chun which I think is a win for Cody.
Also fair warning if you play a Chun a lot (like I do) they can eventually use hazanshu against your rocks correctly, they just have to adjust the timing…which means you can just hold the rock (ooh mindgames!).
[INDENT=1]I think you might be right, I’ll try to test later. I do think I’ve had it work but what happens is you each whiff…which really isn’t ideal but you do end up closer to Chun which I think is a win for Cody.[/INDENT]
If t.HK whiffed over c.HK, it would definitely be a “win” for Cody, because he would recover before Chun, and you’d get a punish. What I was saying is that I’m pretty sure this can’t happen. I’m pretty sure that her sweep hits too high off the ground for Cody to go over it with t.HK, but again, I’m not 100% on this, and I can’t test it right now.
Ice_rei shoots in:
[INDENT=1]If t.HK whiffed over c.HK, it would definitely be a “win” for Cody, because he would recover before Chun, and you’d get a punish. What I was saying is that I’m pretty sure this can’t happen. I’m pretty sure that her sweep hits too high off the ground for Cody to go over it with t.HK, but again, I’m not 100% on this, and I can’t test it right now.[/INDENT]
You can’t use crack kick over her sweep it hits too high.
Cgmoulton says: Chun - You should be using Standing HK as your anti-air in this match. It seems to beat her jumpins pretty clean.
A suspected troll post still gleans that Chun’s Super can punish a blocked LP Criminal Upper. Yep.
PieGuy thinks U2 is best for Chun: “I find her easy to counter-hit with certain setups and she is susceptible to eat big damage depending on her decision making (block a sbk, whiff an sbk), badly done cross-up command roundhouse (auto-correct U2), on reaction punish to flip kick, she is easily hit by FA level 2?s”
Zukuu says U2 against pretty much everyone, doesn’t exclude Chun. He reasons for PieGuy’s U2 choice: “I think he is referring to her long range pokes. c.hp xx ex rocks can counterhit her far s.hk and far s.hp quite well. also, on reaction you can punish her pokes aswell as her kioken.”
[*]PieGuy shoots in: Chun li’s c.hk, s.hk, s.hp and s.mp can all be counterhit quite easily by c.hp and f+mp. C.lp x 3, c.hp; cl.mp, c.hp and f+mp, sweep all work particularly well. Also, u can u2 flipkick easily on reaction. Zukuu beat me to it.
I see gtorinnguru use toward strong into sweep constantly. He can visually ch hit confirm it consistently which is what I’m working on currently.
[*]HunterSFL: I got myself into the habit of comboing CH t.MP into sweep on reaction (if I don’t have ultra available). Unfortunately, now I’m trying to unlearn that habit and relearn using c.HP xx HP CU on reaction to CH t.MPs. It’s way better than sweep.
Zukuu: chun can be tough. tbh, I want her away instead of dealing with her close range. her floaty jump makes her easy to anti air, and rocks’ arc prevent an overhead kick over them for the most part. s.hk and s.hp of her are great poke where cody can’t do much. you can slider under s.hk tho. but she wouldnt do it at such a range usually. once you score a knock down, I’d go for a little pressure game, in particular without meter. most chun players will mash dat back dash (because it’s so goooood) so be aware of OS. I even bait it often when i simply press nothing after a f.mp etc and buffer u2 to catch them on reaction.
Exploid: Good chuns: Stay away from the poking game. Hunt for a knockdown and safejump OS bingo against backdash/EX bird.
Cybeast: I can’t see how Chun Li can be 5-5 even when looking at things objectively. Chun Li can literally win by just pressing buttons and all her pokes beat yours completey, you also can’t frame trap her at all and she can punish pretty much everything Cody can do.The only possible way Cody can win the match up is through pressure on wake up or through the Chun Li player making stupid mistakes.
Zukuu replies: which “unbeatable” pokes you’re talking about? c.hk can be focused easily. s.hk and s.hp can be undergone with c.mk and c.lk. her kiyoken is no threat to your stones, which you shoudl abuse in this matchup. her wakeup is whack. ex bird kick can be savejumped all day. only her backdash can give trouble where you should start to OS them. due to her floaty jump she can be easily anti aired, but is a real threat in air to air combat. if you see a opening, you can jump in for free. she has basically no quick anti air during footsie.
in AE I’d even call it slightly in cody’s favor. but I can understand your feeling, chun troubles me aswell personally
Cybeast replies: A lot of that sounds good in theory but c.mk can be easily punished by her shorts , using c.lk for the footsie battle is also playing with fire. The stones are also pointless when the Chun player gets within footsie range and has u1 stocked, although I do agree with the other stuff you wrote I still think this match is a 5.5-5 in chun’s favor especially if you’re facing a Chun player who knows how to rush down. In super this was a clear 6-4 match up but do to her slight nerfs and Cody’s slight buffs it has made it closer to even .
Otori says: I personally struggle in this matchup as well, but that might be due to the fact that probably the best player I know mains Chun.
I think the optimal range in this matchup is just outside of s.mp range. In that range you can LP Bad Stone pretty much freely, since Hazan Shun won’t go trough it easily. She can’t jump in because her jump is really floaty which gives you plenty of time to AA with HK Ruffian (unless you’re me) and she can’t focus through the stone because you can just s.hk her dash.
A good Chun will only use s.mp (which beats slide) and sweep as poking tools (specially in an attempt to counter Bad Stone’s startup). Do not think you can play footsies with Cody. As a matter of fact, he can never play footsies because he has one of the slowest walk speeds in the game (unless you’re Momochi, in which case you are able to make normals wiff and wiff punish with cr.lk xx MK Ruffian, but I digress), I find it a common misconceptionthe thought that Cody has good footsies, when in fact he has good normals and pokes. That said, your best bets are LP Stone and cr.lp with buffered MK Ruffian. Other normals like s.mk and s.lk, f.hk are also important and should be used sparingly.
EX SBK has 7 (or 8, can’t remember correctly) startup frames, meaning it’s easily safe jumpable. An OS’d EX Bingo will beat both her backdash and EX SBK.
I played a long ass set against this Chun player I’m refering to (although we played lots of different characters most of the time) and after he bodied my Yang probably 12-1 I switched to Cody lol. I actually just recently got a crappy chinese capture device and was planning on uploading to matches for criticism and as a test for some helpful videos I wish to make in the future, but I’m having trouble with audio…hopefully I can work around it and post a few matches later.
Cybeast: Thanks, I’ll try to use this when I face Chun next, although i’ve noticed good Chuns start to use that annoying cross up kick thing if you start to do lp rocks which lands her right next to you or they just sweep you:(
Stang: Punish EX SBK with ultra 2 for goodness.
Dukefleed asks: Guys, what OS do u use against backdashers? Not on jump ins but after a c.LP for example? Against characters with good backdashes like Chun/Rose/Makoto/Gen, I found out that s.HK is a really good tool. Against those with a poor backdash(Ryu etc.) a sweep is sufficient but also OS f+HK works!! I think this is really good :O.
Otori answers: I always use s.lk xx MK/LK Ruffian. But I really like your idead of f.hk, since there’s more reward in it if the meaty lands (cr.lp). I’ll definetly implement that in my game. I can see I’ll get a lot of cr.lp xx HK Ruffians going from down to f+HK lol. Scrubby hands…scrubby hands.
[*]DukeFleed comments: I never liked s.LK OS LK/MK Ruffian since if they don’t backdash and you hit them with the s.LK, its hard to continue that combo ;(. And regarding the HK Ruffian… I got that by mistake as OS while trying to do s.LP OS f+HK today… that was too funny I couldn’t do it again cause I have no idea how I did it in the first place.
[*]HeavensCloud says the ex.ruffian kick j.hp cross-up corner set up works on Chun.