I’m surprised we still don’t have a thread on this topic yet. Rather than being part of a bigger thread about combos/tech in general, its better to have one for this particular topic.
wake ups are trickier in SFV because they can do quick raise or roll back raise. (how you do them again? just hold up?)
what do you do after:
normal throws? normal/or b+LPLK
C.HK
after VT, you kick them in the air
or after an air throw?
after a SBK?
Alright. Not really in depth with video’s and stuff, but just to get the ball rolling:
After an air throw, you can do f+hk instantly and it sets up a perfect meaty where you can combo into anything (for example: cr.lp, st.mp, cr.mk xx MK SBK if they normal get up), and you’re + a lot on block, so you can continue pressure.
After a normal throw you can dash up and you’ll be at 0. Characters with 3 frame normals will trade with your cr.lp (if you time it perfectly), and characters without 3 frame normals have to take it and allows you to continue pressure (tick throws, shimmy’s, frame traps, combo to cr.mk on counterhit, etc). Against characters with 3 frame normals I feel like just walking forward after a forward throw is better as this will give you somewhat of an advantage (even though you can’t be up in their face, you can still bait out normals from their get-up and make them whiff). I dunno which characters have a 3 frame normal though, so maybe someone can provide an accurate list?
After SBK you can choose to do either 1 dash + walk or 2 dashes:
I’m still not completely sure which is better, so atm I’m kinda mixing it up.
p.s. You do normal get-up by pressing ‘down’ as you fall to the ground, or by pressing 2 punches (I always just mash down), and you get back roll by pressing back, or by pressing 2 kicks at the same time (I always mash backwards).
Generally I just dash up and throw a meaty 4hp. It stuffs just about everything and if it crush counters you can follow it up.
A setup that I’ve been using fairly often (though with some caution) after lk and mk sbk enders is dash, instant cr mp. If they quick rise in place, you’ll get a meaty from which you can combo st mp (I usually go for cr lp because it’s a lot easier). If they do not quick rise, instantly follow the first cr mp with a b+hp, and then another instant cr mp. This one will be decidedly less meaty, so you’re best off comboing into cr lp. Unfortunately, this will whiff vs back recovery, so be cautious. Some reversals may beat it, but it avoids Karin’s ex reversal, as well as Necalli’s meterless one (I haven’t tested vs his ex one), allowing for a big punish. As with all of her normals and meaties, it will beat armored reversals like Mika’s and Laura’s clean when you’re in V-Trigger. Also works after ex legs.
It’s a really fun one and can be used sparingly. Just be aware of back recovery, against which an overhead or delayed st hp may be in order (?).
I got the original concept from a youtuber named “Xylotep”:[details=Spoiler]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XZq0WA33X28[/details]
Edit:
You can also hold up-forward after a super and do a late head stomp for a good meaty mixup vs quick rise.
Further edit:
Just today I had a match where I kind of abused the cr mp meaty vs a random online Karin. It was clear that my opponent didn’t understand what I was doing; this tech is soooo underground, man. Lol. Here’s the replay:
^nice one, man, i think i’m in love with this tech :love:
You can also do instant vskill > MK after super as a safe jump, all DPs wiff. If they don’t quickrise immediately do neutral jump roundhouse. Note this does not work against wakeup super from Rashid, as I found out the hard way, and was made very sad.
Once they start blocking your vskill > mk, you can also start mixing it up with 1/2x stomps into air legs for example. In the corner it gets even more crazy as the vskill > mk will hit crossup, but will land in front (although if they block crossup, you will land behind and put yourself in the corner. This is where stomps come into play again and you can ‘stomp’ your way out of the corner if they block your jump properly. With that I mean that you can vskill > stomps after super and if they block correctly (crossup) then if you keep using stomps, eventually you will land in front of them again. If it’s too hard to understand, you would have to try it out a few times in training mode).
Tried that, can’t get it to work and don’t see how it would?
Here you go. Get creative with it, the possibilities are endless.
These are the meaties I have listed in my notes:
Normal quickrise:
-Forward throw -> one step forward -> st. MK/cr. HK/F+MP
-Forward throw -> TAP forward + st.HP (i.e. walk for like a millisecond and hit st. HP)
-cr. HK -> F+HK (auto-timing)
-cr. HK -> one step forward -> cr. MK/B+HP
-EX Legs/SBK -> Dash -> F+HK (auto-timing)
-EX Legs/SBK -> Dash -> cr. MP (auto-timing)
-V-Trigger mode cr. HK -> Dash -> B+HP (auto-timing)
-Air throw -> dash -> cr. MK. If they don’t tech… B+HP x 2 afterward.
-cr. HK -> dash -> cr. LP
-EX Legs/SBK -> dash x 2 -> cr. LP
-EX Legs/SBK -> dash -> Tap down -> B+HP
-sweep -> dash -> cr. LP/LK
-(In corner) Throw -> F+HK
Backward quickrise (throws only allow normal quickrise, btw):
-cr. HK -> Dash -> B+HP/cr.MK/cr.HK/cr. HP (auto-timing)
-EX Legs/SBK -> Dash -> F+HK (auto-timing)
Crush Counter:
-CC sweep -> dash-> whiff st.HK-> F+HK
-CC sweep -> dash-> whiff f+HK (hops over), F+HK -> st. MP… do this one as fast as you can.
… I do remember the super to v-skill one as well. One I haven’t tested yet is after crush counter B+HP -> HK Legs. I wonder if you can get some things off of that.
Missing airthrow -> F+RH auto timing
Imo, I think airthrow > dash > (wait) cr,lp/st.mp is better, especially against characters with invincible moves like a DP. fwd.hk has to be used sparringly against characters with a DP regardless (or if people have Super). This is for all setups that use fwd.hk, because fwd.hk has long startup… so it’s easily reactable.
is not so good, because cr.mk (even if done meaty) still leaves you at -. And you lose pressure. I would never use this.
Basically the only thing I’ve been doing after a forward throw
Is just going straight into F+Hk
If they don’t do a recovery option you are going for Cr. Lp, B+Hp.
Defiantly don’t pay any attention to the wake-up opponent/dummy if training for it, just use the muscle memory and trust it’ll hit because it will.
Say you are watching the opponent/dummy you’ll end up delaying your B+Hp thinking you are hitting it too early but you’ll get jabbed or thrown otherwise.
and I charge for Kikouken so If it is blocked I get a decent push back with Kikouken and a bit of meter building.
If it does Crush counter the kikouken can hit and you can take on CA or EXLegs
This will however cover all the natural wake ups such as Jab, Throw, N.Jump, but doesn’t work against back dash or a reversal such as Ryu/Ken’s DP
If they quick rise you are still going for Cr. Lp. If timed properly you should get a two hit combo.
The Cr. Lp can be canceled into EX Legs, but I personally like to use this opportunity to go for a throw or IALegs
Mind you the IALegs will put you too far out to do a completely Cr. Lp, St. Mp, Cr. Mk combo, so you’ll need to shorten it to just St. Mp xx
There are a slew of options you can do here besides that of course and it is important to work on all those options.
If they back roll the F+Hk will actually whiff, but this is not a bad thing as it forces them back and puts you in a safe position to begin harassing
and with ending combos via EXLegs/SBK
you can use the above set ups just take a small step forward first. Basically as soon as you see a wake up animation begin you should hit F+Hk and it’ll hit meaty.
I need to work on using the dash, Cr. Lp step up and I don’t personally know what auto-timing you guys are talking about even is.
However I’m working on stun sequences and rush down sequences as well as keeping a log of what Chun can punish on her opponents.
That can easily be replaced with Air Throw -> dash -> B+ HP or slightly delayed st. MP. I usually go for it because I know I can do B+HP x 2 if they don’t quickrise and bait as well if I think they will reversal. Not sure what the non-quickrise follow up to Air throw -> F+HK would be as I haven’t tried it yet.
-Another meaty set up that I think will be pretty good: After SBK , doing dash x 2 -> st. MP is tight, but it will beat 3 frame normals on a normal quickrise because both normals hit on the same frame. You can mix this up with grab so they feel the pressure/need to press something.
If they don’t quickrise, whiff st. HK and then do B+HP OR do F+HK over them and then go for st.MP/B+HP.
Against backrise, dash x 2 -> B+HP works as a meaty set up.
Crush counter B+HP -> HK Legs yields the same set up IIRC.
Not super groundbreaking or anything, but EX Legs is actually 32 frames of knockdown advantage on quickrise even though it’s listed as 31 frames. Otherwise it wouldn’t be possible to do dash x 2, st. MP/throw to beat 3f jabs after it (because they both hit on the same frame)… I’ve confirmed that this works just like it does after a SBK knockdown, so that should mean any tight or frame-perfect meaty SBK setup should also apply to EX legs.
There is something somewhere listing the advantage on knockdowns ? Do you have a link please ?
Under the “KD Adv.” the moves will have the frames of knockdown listed. A couple of notes for Chun that need to be pointed out:
-EX Legs is 32 frames KDR adv. (knockdown advantage on quickrise) and not 31.
-While regular cr. HK KD adv. is 65 frames… the crush counter cr. HK is 67 frames of knockdown. Chun Li seems to be the only character this applies to so far.
I’ll list the CC sweep setups I posted from the other thread here:
-CC sweep -> dash-> whiff cr.HK-> F+HK (0 on block)
-CC sweep -> dash-> whiff f+HK (hops over), F+HK… do this one as fast as you can.
-CC sweep -> whiff st. MP -> V-Skill -> late crossup j. MK (safejump)
-CC sweep -> dash-> whiff st.HK-> dash -> B+HP
-CC sweep -> dash-> whiff cr.HK-> dash -> st.MP/delayed throw
Thanks for that ! Also I think there are other mistakes, maybe knockdowns need +1 ?
For exemple I tried just to be sure about those datas to do fwd HK after aerial thrown and also after EX SBK (they have the same adv for a quick rise)
After both, I could input cr.MK in a combo which shouldn’t be possible if it really were 21 as an adv.
Or maybe I’m really stupid when I read this and I should understand that 21 is the number of frames on the ground and then I hit on the next frame aka the 22nd ?