Chun Li vs. Makoto in Japan

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
81

Hey, I play the game almost every day. But sometimes I would rather talk about it. If you don’t want to talk about it, you don’t have to talk on this forum.

I also play the game because it is fun, not because I am trying to be a master. I play it for like an hour a day because that is fun; if I spent several more hours playing it, it probably wouldn’t be as fun.

Right now, it is more fun for me to prove I have a point to all the people calling me an idiot or a newb than it is to play the game. People are so worried about my credentials that they are not examining my content and because of that, I feel that they are underrating my basic observation…

Which just makes it easier to debate and prove I’m not an idiot… Which makes it a fun waste of time… etc…

Though I like playing videogames, I also like debating sometimes. (Believe me, I’ve enjoyed debating on internet forums longer than I’ve been into third strike.) Believe me, playing third strike or debating are both wastes of times.

If you’re gonna talk about what I should be doing, I should be working out or doing work… Not wasting time…

“Makoto is not better than Chun Li. Period. No other character can threaten you so much while putting themselves at little/no risk as well as Chun. There’s nothing subjective about what I’m saying.”

Tier lists are subjective because the weighing in of which factors are important is subjective.

If people get better at parrying, obviously anti-parry tactics are going to be more important. And how much you “weigh” in the importance of parrying is a subjective factor in any tier list.

82

:confused: Really!!! I play 3S for 23 1/2 hours with 1/2 hour left for shit breaks throughout the day and I don’t find 3S boring at all…

C’mon buddy, let’s try to stay away from that whole “I’m a Mastur(de)bater” thing. You may think you’re posting relevant arguments, but in truth you should try to accept some of the advice handed to you by some of these members instead of shoving yours down our throats because although it’s true that this is a discussion, debate, whatever, there are more sides to it than just yours. Play nice…:looney:

83

let’s just all refrain from reading ‘strategy’ discusions from a user who hasn’t been on the site for at least 2-3 years, let alone have that much experience in 3S.

84

C’mon buddy, let’s try to stay away from that whole “I’m a Mastur(de)bater” thing. You may think you’re posting relevant arguments, but in truth you should try to accept some of the advice handed to you by some of these members instead of shoving yours down our throats because although it’s true that this is a discussion, debate, whatever, there are more sides to it than just yours.

What advice?

Most people just say blah blah blah, you haven’t played the game long enough, blah blah blah, play it more blah blah…

If I posted the same shit but said “I heard TK say…” or “I heard pyro lee say…” beforehand half the people calling me a newb would be licking the words on the screen as if they were TK’s nuts. (Joke!!!)

And again, 3rd Strike is not brain surgery. I am sure that I can understand 80% of what I see in high-level 3rd strike matches even if I can’t replicate it. For example, I saw a match where Hugo did an “lk” combo into Hammer Frenzy… I had no idea that was possible beforehand, but after seeing it my brain didn’t explode from the complexity I just saw.

No matter how complex you think third strike is, it is not nearly as complex as real world professional fighting at a high level and people analyze that shit all the time…

While there are nuances to the game that I don’t understand, I still understand the game better than 90% of the people who play it casually and I still think I can understand the meat and potatoes of the game.

From looking at all that shit, it doesn’t take a big brain to notice that people parry more now and that may explain why characters like Yang and Makoto with anti-parry tactics are considered better now. That is not genius thinking. That is not complex “advice” I am giving you people. It is common sense. Mind numbingly, simple common sense.

Maybe some people here are so into the minutia of the game that they aren’t interested in this common sense perspective, but it’s still valid. At this point, a new combo that does 5% more damage or whatever isn’t going to make a difference. The extremely tight execution of meat and potatoes stuff (such as parrying) probably makes a much bigger difference in the skill level of the Japanese players there and the resulting changes in the subsequent tiers…

If you think I need to have the credentials of a PHD to tell you that, then ignore what I said. If you can consider what I say and decide for yourself regardless of my credentials, then great (whether you agree with me or not).

Anyway, I pretty much said what I had to about three times now at this point, so I’m out. Read 1/3rd of my posts–particularly the last few at the end–if you want to know how I’ll most likely respond to future shit.

Peace.

85

You’re not helping a lot either, you’re basicly just throwing “liar” and “newb” around without giving him the slightest bit of theory he needs. You can’t just say “that character is best, period”. That’s per definition false, as everyone would be playing Chun-Li and the game would be broken.

86

3s is simple. really. but its really important to know what characters are capable of, and why stuff is happeneing more so than its happening.

87

Again with the “Parry/Anti-Parry” tactics?:lame: Maybe you’re so wrapped up in these extensive replies that you’re missing the point. Didn’t you start this thread with the intent of discussing Makoto’s rise in the Tier list? How the fuck did it evolve into a Parry Strats thread? Seriously, you have problems accepting constructive criticism. As soon as someone offers you some legit info, you break off into Pro Boxing or Football. WTF!!! That has nothing to do with the game either. You’re saying that “it’s not rocket science” or “it’s not a complex game”, if that were true, you’d have it all figured out and wouldn’t be posting all that useless bullshit. You can’t accept that you’re wrong. Stop trying to sound intelligent or credible by randomly throwing in words like “minutia” :rofl: and put down the fucking dictionary. You beat newbs 8 out of 10 times and you want us to take your advice? Fuck that man…two thumbs down for you :tdown: :tdown:

Since you have nothing useful to say about Makoto OR Chun-Li OR…anyone, who do you use anyways? I swear to God, if you say Akuma, I’m going to break out laughing and get piss all over my keyboard:rofl: I tried to help you, I tried to warn you that being such a “know it all” closet faggot would get you flamed, but you didn’t listen. Now I have no choice or control over what happens from now on :nunchuck:

P.S. Fight it all you want with your newbie posts. You can type up all these 5000 word essays you call “discussions”, but they just prove that if there are 2 newbs out there that can beat you every 10 games, then you really don’t much understanding of this game at all. Let me know when you want to advance. Take care. :arazz:

88

Why does everyone have to flame people who don’t know something? I’m getting so fucking tired of this…

Incorrect information gets responded with countless flames.
Semi-old information (Really anything older than 5 minutes) is GOING to get 2-3 old posts in the first 10.

WTF? If you aren’t going to say something constructive, shut the fuck up and piss off.

Lyrical, I think it’s great that you’re going to discuss stuff instead of just listening to the haters and shutting up. You’ll get better this way.

89

that you’re missing the point. Didn’t you start this thread with the intent of discussing Makoto’s rise in the Tier list? How the fuck did it evolve into a Parry Strats thread?

Shit, read my second post in this thread. I mentioned how you can’t parry Makoto’s throw. It took a while for me to develop my ideas and really articulate them the way in a way that was understandble to others like I did towards the end of the thread. But you can see how I was trying to convey the same basic idea towards the beginning of the thread–it was always about how Japanese players are getting better at parrying and as such how tactics that can’t be parried might become stronger at their level.

If you don’t agree with what I’m saying, that’s fine, but you can’t honestly say I’m changing my position either.

“but they just prove that if there are 2 newbs out there that can beat you every 10 games, then you really don’t much understanding of this game at all.”

It shouldn’t matter if I can beat 8 out of 10 newbies or even 0 out of 10 newbies, or if I am a grand master at this game. That doesn’t affect the content of what I’m saying. That elitist attitude is kind of what drove me to go on so long repeating the same shit.

I’m not going to say anything new about the tiering discussion because there is nothing new for me to say.

90

i love you all!

:rock:

91

Personally, in a biased Q user’s opinion, I’m more scared of an excellent Makoto user than I am of an excellent Chun user. But in the overall tiers, I think Chun is still better. I’d put Makoto even with or maybe a little above Ken, but she’s not as good as Yun and Chun. She rapes some characters, but the characters she rapes mostly get beaten just as well or even better by Chun. And unlike Chun, who only has a bad matchup against Yun, Makoto has a few losing (albeit barely) or even matchups. But all this is taking Makoto as she is now.

If, however, Pyro is right and lots of people in Japan can consistently do the 100% stun combo, then Makoto has to move up in the tiers. The 100% stun is the scariest thing in the game, bar none. Makoto’s gameplan would change and the way her opponents would play against her would change. She would be like Yun and Chun in that she would play to get meter and to use super. Meter building is easy for Makoto, so she’d get super pretty quickly. Would she be higher than Chun? It’s possible; after all, she’s not much lower than Chun as it is. I’m not sure if she’d move above Yun, but she’d make a serious run at him. As she’s played now, Makoto presses the opponent into the corner and looks for a stun with her way-too-stun-y regular/special moves, so she likes keeping the opponent cornered. But if her user could consistently do the 100% stun combo, when he’s rushing down, instead of going for a karakusa or neutral/toward throw, he could go for a backward throw and put himself on the right side of the screen for the combo. This opens up a whole new awesome range of mindgames that I’m sure are apparent to all of you.

92

You’re not alone. I love me too.

:rock:

93

i love having analitical sex with strakka.

ps. i just made up a word. which one?

94

I didn’t even bother reading everything in this thread. It started off really well though. Makoto rose up in the tier list because of her 100% stun. That’s the only reason. That’s really what this thread is about; Makoto’s status in the tier list rose and we’re here to discuss why.

95

Her 100% stun has been known and ignored for years now. What I can’t understand is why it suddenly makes a difference.

96

C-Royd for president, that is all

97

It makes a difference because the Japanese are at that level of play with Makoto where that 100 percent stun makes a difference. Chun Li has always been top just because she shuts out the poking game of the majority of the characters in the game and it’s easy to verify into her SA2. Makoto requires more knowledge and specific conditions to get her damage out so she’s not as consistant of a character. Now that the Japanese are at a level where they have become more “consistant” in their Makoto play it’s almost impossible to not take huge damage from Makoto unless you totally outguess her.

98

mak out guesses God. that is all.

99

HAY GUYS.

lol.

100

In another thread that got closed, some guy tried telling me that Spellmaster-J won SBO after OCV’ing J’s team, when I asked how many tourneys had been won by Makoto’s in Japan. Turns out Spellmaster lost to another Makoto, Izu, who OCV’d HIS team.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8321828100857839053

Damn motherfuckers trying to make me look stupid. I knew what I was talking about, but it’s all a moot point cuz I was right about Makoto winning that tourney by OCV.

Anyways…anybody have a decent list of Japanese majors and who won what w/ what character?