2/20 Update. Both of these are now on front page.
Gilley Frame Data
Kararesu’s set play off CC c.HK and other anime stuffz.
Not a “frame data guy” and trying to understand this. Gilleys data says s.mp has 6f on hit and d.mk is 6f on startup. Is this saying that link is 1 frame? Even with the 3f buffer that doesn’t sound right…or nah?
It’s correct. Just with the 3 frame buffer you have more time to place the link correctly. You can hit c.MK early on in the hit stun of the s.MP and it will still place it on the right frame for you. That’s what the buffer is for. It auto places buttons on multiple frames for you.
Chun can jab>throw 3 frame jab mashes. Tested against mika cr.lp:
Jab>throw.
Yeah. That’s it. The problem here is that if the opponent DIDNT jab, then Chun wiffs the throw… You are throwing the opponents extended hurtbox on the frame their jab becomes active and since throws beat jabs it works. Normally this would work since if Chun takes a one frame step forward then the jab becomes active one from before Chuns throw becomes active.
Esoteric useless knowledge? Probably… But might have some use in a yomi sort of way.
Sorry for double post but it deserves its own post:
Chun cr.lp does 20 damage normally. Her st.lp does 30 damage normally. That’s a big boost in damage. But even better is that her jabs get boosted in damage in v trigger by another 10 damage. So her st.lp x3 xx ex legs does 213 damage in v trigger.
Also, because of this, her best actuall frame trap is probably cr.lp, walk forward a bit, st.lpx3 cancel it into anything decent and it does more than a throw would have.
On block she is still +2 with a decent advantage.
Chuns almost max range st.hp can screen check into v trigger cancel into sweep at furthest range, or into another st.hp xx super if she has meter at max range. This does 450 and might be a really strong way to activate her v trigger in general.
So once Chun has full bar, and v trigger… Her st.hp becomes super scary.
Oh and as if the SF5 SHIT AINT FUN ENOUGH LETS LOOK AT HITBOX SHIT:
If the opponent blocks st.lpx3 standing, the last st.lp will wiff, if they are crouching though, it will get blocked.
BUT WAIT… THERES MORE!
If you really wanna pump up your light confirm damage, you can do st.lpx2,st.lk. St.lk does an extra 10 damage over st.lp… But only works on standing opponents.
The artificial depth in this game is “amazing”
That last combo BTW does 221 damage in v trigger with an ex legs ender.
Cr.lp,st.mp,cr.mk xx ex legs does 247 in v trigger.
Just some food for thought.
I know what you are saying which I covered in my comment in the other thread. Literally same thing I said. You can’t frame trap a throw. If you beat their normal your throw would have whiffed if they didn’t press something. The only exception is 4f after air legs. As the attacker you have to guess to st. MP or not, sure st. MP wins but going for a throw is always a risk.
I made this video to show a few links I’ve been practicing. I found that not only f.HK links into super, but b.HK as well.
b.HK is a greaty meaty tool, and even more so on V trigger. I’m not sure why this works, on Gilley’s spreadsheet, it says that both f.HK and b.HK are +2 on hit, so I dont know why the super links even though its a 5 frame start up. I’m trying to complete my meaty collection so I’d like to know if I’m missing any other meaty links. The only I can see from the top of my head is the meaty cr.MP as showed in a video a few posts back. If you know any others let me know!
Dime, can you expound why the b+HK range is the optimal range for Chun-Li? I understand that it allows for a strong AA position, but what else makes this position a ‘sweet spot’?
It works because the moves you’re using hit meaty. What this means is that you’re hitting the opponent with the later active frames of the move (usually when they’re standing up into your attack. Or also, as shown in your video, when you’re out of range and the later parts of the moves ARE in range for them to get hit). Regular frame data can no longer be applied here and so you can’t take Gilley’s spreadsheet when it comes to frame advantage. As you’re hitting with the later active frames, you will also gain a lot more frame advantage. As you said f.HK and b.HK link into super. Meaning that because you hit them meaty, you are at least +5 after you hit them with these moves. I hope that clears it up.
V Trigger also increases the active frames for some of her normals so I’ll make a list of those from the Dantarion frame data.
I find that it is an optimal range against ryus and kens that like to jump. At that range chuns pokes work well and she also has BHK AA to cover her.
But against other characters like birdie or gief it’s harder to use BHK because of faster jumpins or better jumpin normals.
And against other characters like mika I don’t find it optimal since that leaves me in her range of charged HK or slide or dash in or fmk which is to much shit for me to cover reactionally. So in that matchup I tend to use st.lk as the go to AA, though I should probably try to use sweep more instead cause of a longer hitbox and range and damage and knockdown.
Basically I see chuns AA’s as a combo of where is my best spot to stand in this matchup, and if I’m standing in that spot what AA will I use against my opponent that will have the best chance of success.
In sf4 I found this easier to do with chuns st.mk AA. Chun controlled space better in that game for me with her safe on block high priority sweep, and her long range non duckable hard to beat st.mp. In that game, just outside of st.mp range was the sweet spot for where chuns st.mk would work well, and that’s the range that many characters are going to try to jump in at.
I assumed that this was the case for sf5 as well since it works against Ryu and ken with BHK as well as a few other characters, but as my opponents learn more I’m finding that I can’t keep up that close spacing as easily now, so BHK isn’t optimal in some matchups… Though I still love it in the shoto matchup.
I’ve yet to experiment with other AA’s though like chuns cr.mp might be a ridiculous AA when she is sitting on v trigger pop.
Sweep might be a great AA as well… I don’t know cause I haven’t tried them out yet.
I will say that st.hp xx v trigger fishing is the truth though if you have full super.
It’s probably the easiest high damage Chun get viably get in the game. St.hp VTX st.hp xx super. Simple and does like 450 damage. And the v trigger cancel only comes out on contact, not on wiff.
Sweep is pretty bad in this game as AA, it trades A LOT, or even gets beat clean (even if you space it on just the tip). It can work sometimes, on some jump-ins, but it’s not very consistent.
cr.mp is pretty amazing though and very underused atm. You low profile jump-ins and tripguard them, and if you time it right and space it properly, you can hit them meaty and can even combo out of it (st.mp, cr.mk xx medium.SBK. 255 damage (meterless!) as punish on a jump-in is an amazing punish). You can also slide under people jumping, like if they jump on you in the corner. And put them in the corner in the process. Usually people also won’t expect it, and cause the camera moves up a bit when people jump it’s hard to tell what’s happening. This wtf moment usually allows you to sneak in a quick grab, or even a cross-under combo.
Thought I’d share this video I cooked up.
Obviously not the most mind blowing stuff @ Day 6, but some easy mode stuff.
I cant seem to get instant air legs out when I TK. I just seem to get air normals and my motions seem to be alright. I have no problem doing TK moves in other games like marvel, am i missing something in street fighter?
This is amazing.
Tried it against mikas wake ups and it beats EVERYTHING if timed right.
The only answer mika has for this is her super, or she can backroll into backdash…which corners her quickly.
But mashing jab or jump or armor reversal or tech all gets stuffed.
Sweep has no hit box for AAing anymore. It’s pretty much a knockdown/CC fish tool now.
Anybody been able to do this yet? c.LP, s.MP, EX fireball, cMK, MK SBK. @Sephiroth73003 @J.D or @Alioune if he wants to just spill it out LOL. I don’t understand how he keeps the charge since you have to go into neutral to land the s.MP.
Same way you do st.lp into lk SBK-- you release the charge to neutral for a moment as you hit the standing normal, but the game remembers your charge. In the video at 1:00 you can see he charges for it during the air lightning legs, holds the charge and hits down-back LP (for the cr.lp), then releases it as he hits s.mp right before he hits forward +2 punches for the EX fireball.
Ok I’ll practice tonight. It wasn’t remembering my charge at all