Thanks to all contributors for maintaining a useful thread. Just have a couple of quick questions.
I noticed that j,MK can cross up some characters (e.g., E. Honda, Ryu). Can j.MK be used for safe jumps instead of j.LK after a forward throw? How do people commonly do safe jump testing in training mode?
Thanks in advance.
To test a safe jump, pick your target character as P1 and chun as P2. Record Chun doing the safe jump (something like walk forward for 3 sec, forward throw, safe jump) then test the target character’s various wakeup options. You might have to record several times if you don’t get the timing right.
Does anyone use Back dash ultra to counter Dictator’s Devil reverse or head stomp. I would like to counter a across the screen Jaguar kick as well with this. Any back dash ultra tips?
About building meter. I did some test in training last night and i compared with the framedata.
Super meter gain.
1 bar = 250
Full bar = 1000
Normal moves
On hit
light: 20
medium : 40
high : 60
On block
light: 10
medium : 20
high : 30
Special moves
On whiff
Hazan shu : 30 + **0**
Kikkoken : 20 + **0**
Lightning legs: 20 + **0**
On hit
Hazan shu : 30 + **40**
Kikkoken : 20 + **20**
Lightning legs: 20 + **10 x number of hit**
On block
Hazan shu : 30 + **20**
Kikkoken : 20 + **10**
Lightning legs: 20 + **05 x number of hit**
My test in training give me :
9 whiff hazanshu = 1 bar
5 blocked hazan shu = 1 bar
4 hit hazan shu = 1 bar
12-13 kikoken whiff = 1 bar
9 kikoken blocked = 1 bar
6-7 kikoken on hit = 1 bar
12-13 stand mp on block = 1 bar
8 sweep on block = 1 bar
whiff kikkoken = medium move on block
Whiff hazan shu = high move on block = kikoken on block
Fantastic data as always c_nul. Thanks!
why is c nul the best teacher?
rhetorical question by the way.
thanks c nul!
Hello guys and girls.
I want to talk about back + mk
If i remember ArkImpulse is a big lover/fanboy of this move for whiff punish
I have to admit that though i read him it’s only now that i really understand the use… ^^;.
It’s happened to me often that i think i understand something but in fact i don’t xD
So i late thanks Ark Impulse ^^
My experience with this move is near zero.
I think i use it only for the challenge.
But yesterday by luck i notice that this move is cancelable only on hit. It wasn’t like that in vanilla according to the first post from Azrael
i want to add some information about the hit confirm thing.
according to the guide you can cancel the first move during a windows of 9 frames.
From frame 9 (first active frame) until frame 18 (after the active frame and during the recovery).
But if you add the hitfreeze/hitstop/hitlag, you have in reality 19 frames i think to hit confirm
Hmmm. I remember learning from Shizza that it was an effective counter-poke against Shotos cr.mk because of it’s hitbox characteristics (her leg seems to go over the Shotos leg). However, my biggest disappointment is that the second hit doesn’t have pursuit property.
That is,
even if I counter poke or even whiff punish low forward(using Ken as a test dummy), the second hit will whiff.
What the fuck.
The only way I use it now is if I need Ultra damage to finish the round and I don’t have meter.
In terms of footsies, I much prefer other things. I’m going to load up training mode and see if how it works in other footsie based match-ups.
So basically, you can bring the launching kick a little later than it seems?
That’s what it sounds like from reading.
BUT, the startup of b+MK is so slow that I don’t know if it’s worth it.
It is a GREAT solution to Kens who spam Kara Focus. Space it to whiff then option select the launcher (read: mash B+MK). They will Kara Focus right into your foot, then you can get a nice counter-hit and 100% damage from the upkicks. Very good damage.
I throw out B+MK after St. MP sometimes. B+MK has more range, so it’s faster than walking up to do another St. MP.
I also like the string B+MK > B+MK. It’s very negative on block and very slow and has long range. It’s like a mini Dhalsim poke string. lol
At max range, you can’t complete the combo because the launcher will miss, obviously. But if you just throw it out in footsies every once in a while, you will definitely get comfortable enough to notice someone who runs into it blatantly enough that you can hit-confirm the whole thing.
Ark impulse like you said versus crouch opponent it’s not good but i want to use it versus stand opponent.
Perhaps it’s the way i play but people love to spam long range move versus me
Guile go nuts with far hk and forward hp.
Fei long go nuts with cr hp and 1st rekka
Boxer walk back and spam stand hp/hk
Rufus or cammy who land just front of you with dive kick (not too close)
ken who spams stand mk far range
zangief who spams lariat and run away from you
Any moves from Rose ^^
Sakura and her stand hk
In my opinion a lot of characters can counter chunli in staying at max range.
I’m not a fan of stand mp. the move is good to deal versus opponent who want to come closer but usually my opponent just spam move or start focus.
It’s hard to explain but you can option select a whiff punish.
You can learn to do back +mk when you feel you will enter in a block stun. Input back mk when you see the opponent’s move come toward you.
If you block, you block but if the move whiff, you whiff punish ^^
I don’t know if it’s a good technique but i succeed to punish rekka, stand hk (guile).
I have to try versus boxer and all the cast.
What i want is switch my sweep to back+mk and his follow up. In both case i score a knockdown. both have good range.
Like walnut shrimp said back mk has a better range but sweep force me to crouch
Why not use this move during blockstrings or like a meaty ?
I think St. MP is powerful. I’ve been bossed around by it before, and it is not fun. It is definitely the move to make someone start blocking or to check if they are blocking. When you know that, it’s your way into landing jabs/low shorts/throws. You can’t even beat it with Cr. MK anymore–Chun only gets hit by those if she walks into one.
I played a good guile yesterday. I put him several time in the corner. He wasn’t moving.
Ok st mp force him to block but since he doesn’t move what is the point. I build meter of course but i’m pushed back so i have to walk forward again and again.
At some point i fear to be predictable.
I baited some Psychic flashkick though
The gap between landing a st mp and land jabs/low shorts/throws is noticeable. Usually he have time to score a cr lk or cr mk
I have to admit i really don’t know how use stand mp. It’s like Ryu and his hado trap…
If someone can make a video stand mp 101, he is welcome ^^
so basically u r using auto guard to protect the input dont u? cuz thats why the late tech works afaik. In the other side playing chun in ST es basically st.mp all day, so to me at least its not a new thing to learn, so yeah just get used to use it a lot, not like mashing it but its a poke with gdlk range right?, so use it like that…
yes the “auto guard”. It’s not new and i think a lot of people use it for tech a throw but in my case i was limited to those situations only.
If someone jump on me i block and i input a throw. On wake up, i block and i press throw.
But i never practice to use this technique in other situations, you see ?
For example versus a high jump in from viper, i try to switch my habit to block+throw by block+mp.
And now with back mk to deals with far range pokes of my opponent.
In ST (HDremix in my case) i was using cr mk all day 
cr.mk its one hell of a godlike tick in ST (the legend state that u can be counter thrown while doing it: "In the days of SF2 classic, when Guile player Nosuke was playing with Dhalsim against Chun-Li, he discovered that a deep thrust kick could beat wake-up throws. So he said “hey, Hama, this thrust kick is like Chun-Li’s crouching forward in that it can’t be countered with a throw.”), but that´s the main use of cr.mk in ST, in the other side st.mp´s fast, good blockstun and awesome range, u can do blockstrings with 2 to 3 st.mps and end it with throw if u dont want to go for a 4th st.mp… but yeah i can go on with this but that´s not the point here [/offtopic]
Trade
Hello.
Want to talk about the trade system.
In this game, we play a lot with habit.
If i trade a focus level 2 with a normal move i KNOW that i can just walk and throw my opponent before he fall on the ground.
People know that you can juggle U2 after df lk even on trade with a jump in.
Fei long players are aware now that if they trade a rekka, they can score another and do a 4 hit combo rekka (Mago Style)
Etc
Some months ago it’s happen to me something.
I was challenging the wake up of boxer with cr mk.
My original plan was to try to hit confirm with my super. Boxer was in the corner and my charge was ready.
Wake up ex dash piss me off and i was wondering if i could punish them with cr mk xx super in reaction.
So my opponent wake up, i did my cr mk. He didn’t reversal ex dash this time. I notice my cr mk hit him so i started to do my super but at the same time i saw that he hit me too.
Yes we trade.
At this point i was so focus to hit confirm into super that i let my super go anyway.
So since i get hit, my super come out in reversal. In my head i was thinking “Shit !!” and…
The super connected… 10 hits combo + KO
At first i was happy but i knew i was lucky so i didn’t bother to really understand “what happened”
Until “now”.
So let’s look !!
I trade my cr mk and succeed to combo my super (2 frames startup)
When we look into frame data we generally only bother about startup and frame advantage on hit and block (at least in my case)
For counter hit you look the frame advantage on hit and you add +3 or +1
But for trade it’s different.
Both players are hit in the same time. There no more recovery of the move.
It’s all about hitstun.
In the first frame data the blockstun and hitstun were provided on the wiki but for super street fighter most characters don’t have those informations.
Fortunately blockstun and hitstun are fixed with some exception though
Light moves give 13 frames hitstun
Medium moves give 16 frames hitstun
high moves give 21 frames of hitstun
In my case i traded a medium move with a light move from Boxer. So the trade can be represented like that :
16 vs 13
I have +3 frames advantage after this trade and it’s why my super connected.
So Ok i get it cool ! And after ?
If you are curious you can compare a trade between high moves and light moves for example.
21 vs 13
…
…
…
+8 frames advantage.
Any decent player who play Chun Li, when you say +7 or more it’s the alarm for… ULTRA 1 ^^
So yes you get it !! If you trade a high move with a light you can do a REVERSAL Ultra 1 and the combo is guaranteed
Again for curiosity what happen if i trade an hazan shu ?
The hitstun is 25 frames (24 frames on crouch opponent)
24 vs 13
+11
If you trade with a medium (cr mp for example)
24 vs 16
+8
Trade look random in this game. It’s not as if someone can base his game on trade at first.
But in reality those informations can change your way to play.
How many time you tried to do a cr hp on someone and you ended by trade your move and this trade abort your offense.
How many time you try to setup a counter hit and you get a trade instead ?
In this game there is several situations.
You score a hit because your opponent didn’t block
You hit the guard because your opponent blocked
You score a counter hit because you hit your opponent before he hit you
You trade
You are hit
When someone wake up.it’s not always a good idea to go for a meaty move.The game let your opponent mash anything and he will block your meaty first (that’s the engine of the game)
So someone who mash buttons don’t care about your meaty. You don’t help yourself when you choose this option.
A non meaty options can lead to a hit / counter hit / trade.
This option is good for you.
Of course he can choose to block but a meaty will not beat this too.
He can choose to wakeup with an invincible move and beat you (but a meaty will not change that too
The point of all this is just to show that trying to go for a counter hit is sometimes better and can lead occasionally to a"better" situation : Trade
I talked about wake up but it can be after a blocked jump in, etc…
Let’s play the game of Ryu or Akuma with their delayed cr mp during blockstun ^^
PS :Some normals do 22 hitstun. Some medium do more than 16 hitstun too and specials are not fixed.
PS : Sorry for this Frenglish ^^;
cross up j.hk and j.hp how ?
is there any know setups or is it a corner thing only
Easiest set up I know for cross up fierce is HSU, cr.jab then jump straight away and press fierce twice as if timing a normal attack (Vs Ryu and characters in the same hitbox group), its easy to set the spacing by just doing st.strong xx HK HSU, cr.jab…
However this set up pretty impractical but it does work, also from this set up if you press fierce one it hits in front, if you press it twice it hits behind… Jump in training set the dummy to autoblock (cos everyones gonna block a HK HSU right) and try it, not useful at all which is why i never posted it but it does set up for both front and cross up from jumping fierce