Chun Li General Thread: Blue Jade

One benefit of cl HK outside of frame trapping was it quickly shut down Dhalsim’s teleport mixup in almost every situation except the meaty knockdown -> EX fireball setup. Since it was a proximity normal, he couldn’t really “cross you up” (this applied to other crossup tactics from other characters as well like Honda’s reversal buttsplash). Even trading was in her favor, so the fireball itself wasn’t a threat as long as she was standing.

Now it seems that air grab is the most consistent way to deal with it in SF5 without thinking too much about being crossed up, but you still have to wait a bit longer and if doesn’t teleport near you, then you would be stuck in the air if you attempted this without making sure he’s near you first (i.e. reacting purely to the teleport startup animation). B+HK isn’t as effective in this situation since you still have to pick a direction.

I came from maining Ryu in SF3 and most games before that (Chun was more of a secondary then) to maining her full-time in SF4 and I will be maining her again in SF5.

General:
The main thing with Chun is your primary form of space control will be from the range and dominance of her normals combined with her fast movement speed. You’ll be mainly annoying and whiff punishing the opponent with pokes from the mid-range (F+MP, st. MK, cr. MK, sweep, etc. St. HP reaches far, but it isn’t nearly as fast on startup as it used to be so it’s not really abusable). White chip damage for normals also helps in piling on the pressure since Chun Li’s are pretty good.
Then the opponent who can’t out-poke you usually gets agitated by this and tries to either jump in or back up and throw fireballs.
-If you’re looking for the jump in, then anti-air with something like st. LK, B+HK, B+HP, neutral jump HK or air grab… use st. HP or st. HK if they are farther away. Knock them out of the air and get ready to harass them on the way down.
-If they want to back up and throw fireballs, I’d mainly throw my own FB to neutralize the fireball and build meter or neutral jump over it and slowly inch forward to either make them back up more or get into a more threatening space where I can go for a cr. MP (to go under the fireball), jump in attack, or super right through it if I have the meter. In V-trigger mode, her B+ HP also neutralizes single-hit fireballs.

…The key vs. both of those tactics is to try to gain ground instead of letting them push you back with that stuff. She does a lot better with open space behind her.

If it’s an opponent who can kind of match you with pokes or out-poke you like Bison or Vega, you’ll usually do better moving into a closer range. Get them to whiff something or throw a fireball and move in.

Up close, again use her good walk speed and the dominance of her normals. Harass the opponent with her fast light attacks, st. MP and B+HP for tick grab and counterhit/frame trap pressure and convert those into combos when you get a hit. Hover in and out of the mid-range and their grab range and try to bait them in to pressing something bad so you can get a whiff punish. F+HK goes over low attacks and avoid throws while moving forward. DF+MK is just to wake up the opponent who blocks low too much. It’s slower than most overheads, so without covering it with a fireball first, you won’t be getting this too often without being stuffed first.

^ All this stuff becomes better when she pops v-trigger and converts into good damage on hit, so I expect Chun players will want to have that available WAY more often then having to resort to using v-reversal to get out of block pressure.

Special moves:

You asked about charge times. It takes a little under a second to have your charge ready… this is a lot faster than people initially think they have to do when they get into a charge character. In SF4 it was 55 frames (55/60th of a second), but it might be even less in this. When you master it, people often underestimate it and think that you don’t have charge and that they can do something stupid when really you’re ready to punish whatever it is they try. For SF5 this will mainly be punishing bad jump ins or loose pressure strings with EX SBK.

Her fireball, isn’t like the typical shoto fireball, it moves slow BUT she recovers from it fairly quick so she can walk behind it and use it as a mini-shield and then follow up with one of her ranged pokes or an overhead/low/throw mixup. Moving behind it to gain ground is it’s best use imo. Also, as long as you’re not too close, you’ll usually recover fast enough for an anti-air normal if they jump over it. It’s also still very good for zoning against grapplers and characters who don’t deal with fireballs very well in general.
You won’t be winning too many fireball wars with it, but still use it to keep the opponent from getting too much momentum from fireballs (and you gain meter just for throwing them)… you can always neutral jump over their fireball and reset the pace if they are starting to “win” the fireball war.

Holding a charge with down+back not only gives you access to both of her charge moves, but also keeps you firmly planted in the same position without moving backward. Remember that you’re still vulnerable to overheads though and sometimes you should move back a bit before throwing a fireball to get optimal spacing.

Lightning legs are a motion move now instead of mutli-kick input, so it’s quicker to pull off, but they aren’t + on block anymore (actually, besides EX legs and TK air Legs, they are punishable on block now). They’ll be mainly used for confirms off of her normals for combo damage instead of pressure. Use TK Air Legs if you want to pressure (people are saying they are safe and maybe even + on block). You can link into cr. LP after LK Legs and TK Air Legs on hit if you’re close enough to the opponent.

Regular SBK is usually just for ending combos. It has the most damage output of any of her special moves and knocks down afterward.

V-Skill is basically a different angled jump that travels a bit faster, but you can’t do any moves until about the mid-way point of the jump. I’ve seen this mainly used for crossup setups or to come down with Air Legs for pressure. It also hits on the way up and you can juggle afterward, but that hitbox isn’t that great imo (don’t use it as an anti-air lol).

Super:
It’s a motion move in this game (it fluctuates from charge to motion input in several games). Being motion means you still have access to it while moving forward, so confirming into it and going through fireballs with it will be easier. It’s 5f startup and travels about 2/3 of the screen in distance, so it can punish a lot of moves on block as well. It also can be juggled off of a lot of anti-airs like crush counter B+HP, crush counter st. HK, jump MP or many of her normals in V-trigger mode.

-I’m not going to go over frame data. I’ll just say that knowing it for Chun (as well as what was unsafe for other characters) was extremely beneficial in SF4 and will be very beneficial in SF5. If you haven’t been looking at gilley’s frame data doc, here it is:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1976rt8B91PqVCeYJAmcnW1uwVJ0H03QJtV-dJC5ohL8/edit#gid=1533941575

It’s categorized by each beta and may change again in the final release, but getting the hang of it/memorizing it should improve the way you make decisions with her imo.

-Other than that, yeah just move fast and be annoying with her normals and you can get good mileage out of Chun if you choose to stick with her.

-Btw, The move that looks like Hazanshu from SF4 is her Senenshu overhead move (DF+MK). Other than also being an overhead, it functions nothing like Hazanshu. It doesn’t go over or through fireballs, it is not airborne at any point, so it can’t beat throws or low attacks (use F+HK for that). It’s just an overhead use to wake up people who block low too much. In V-trigger mode and on counterhit, I think you can combo into cr. LP on hit and convert that into a combo, but that’s the only thing special about it.

lol,ur explanation is much longer and better than mine, anyway, thanks for the explanation too :D,i’m not really gud in explain these things in detail haha :slight_smile: , oh ya, @Darklightjg1, what cl hk u means for dealing with sim teleport?the b.hk?becoz i think i don’t really react faster enough to punish his tele cross up.

@Darklightjg1 That’s quite some information, thanks a lot!

I will read it thoroughly and try to apply some of the things in USFIV to practice for SFV.
I didn’t know charge characters were charged that quick, I’m probably one of those players who underestimate it and think that the opponent don’t have charge and that I can do something stupid, Thanks a lot.
The framedata helps but, the final game can have different data so I’m not going to study them thoroughly, but I will look at which moves have + on block
.
I’m going to try and stick with chun for SFV and hopefully I can use her tools at the right moment. I think she’s a great character and the only reason I didn’t want to try her is because of charge, I dislike charge a lot. I believe that practicing a lot will help me overcome my fear of charge characters.

Thanks for all the information and hopefuly it will help me to respect Chun.

I was referring to her cl HK in SF4 as a beneifit of the proximity normals not having struggle with certain cross up tactics. It doesn’t exist in SF5 but I was basically responding to xaaz’s take on it. I type slow, so my response didn’t end up under his post. I should’ve quoted it first.
In SF5 it looks like air grab and probably st. LK will be better suited for dealing with the teleport.

You don’t even really have to play her like a charge character. The only moves she has for charge that you’ll be using in neutral is fireball and being a 3S player, I forget to use it a lot since she has a lot of her 3S normals and out of habit I just forget to use it. You can get away using just her lightning legs/EX legs for damage after normals and that’s a circle motion now. Once you get walking around and hitting different normals with her you can get her to function like a motion character for a while until you get comfortable with her charge moves. You will want to learn to use the fireball eventually though as it does allow her to at least cover space at an area where she can’t threaten with a mix up or pokes. Spinning bird kick is mainly just for damage or EX SBK for reversing so you don’t need it that much.

If you can walk around and hit f+MP, s.MP, c.MK, s.MK and b+HP in the right areas, that’s like the basics of Chun neutral. Oh and walk up and throw people or throw s.MP at them if you figure they will try to tech.

Anyone else miss hazanshu? she doesn’t need it that much in this game because of the lack of fireballs but it was nice to go over low mokes mid range

Something I just thought of, which may affect the tiers, is what characters combo easiest into there CA, and what characters save up CA the best. Chun has 2 very strong uses of super meter that can affect her ability to hit her CA:

Ex spinning bird
And ex legs.

Not using either of these means either having lower end bnb damage, or having less defense on jumpins on her wakeup/neutral.

Both do decent damage for ex moves, but both need to be in certain situations multiple times to get the damage of a CA.

And finally, some characters that have very good CA can also be bolstered by very good combo damage into the CA. Karin is one of these characters that has a ridiculously strong CA combo damage.

Anywho it might mean nothing, but it also might mean everything.

I miss it a little bit. Granted, she’s great at the midrange and has her tools against fireballs, but the Hazanshu was a great tool that would’ve given her more of an edge in this game.

So far just in theory I think her V Trigger offsets it with having a very useful V Trigger that is only 2 bars and basically tying with Bison for the best CC in the game to build meter for it. Karin would be balanced more towards the opposite where people think her V Trigger is more basic in utility (great for combo extension but most don’t think the actual trigger itself is very good) but has strong super to offset.

Senenshuu was also in Alpha 1/2/3 and I believe it passed through projectiles in those games.

I think another factor that would play into that tier meter theory is matchup versatility, Dime. Against certain characters I feel it’s probably more beneficial to save meter for CA and others it’s probably better to use it for ex. For example, against a Gief I would probably use my meter all day every day on ex legs because it knocks down. It creates the space to get Chun back to neutral where she dominates Gief. Conversely, against a Ryu or Nash I would probably want to save it for super (or the odd ex sbk) since those characters can be an impenetrable fortress when they want to be, so when you do manage to get in and start a combo you can burn super for max damage because who knows how many chances you’re going to get against them.

I mean of course those are just two extremely simplified examples and in reality things are more complicated than that, but I think the point is solid.

No, that’s a very solid point.

I’ve never seen matchup versatility lead to higher rankings in a tier list, usually tier lists are about abuseable tools and how those tools make matchups bad, but I don’t see why it couldn’t simply be versatility. In fact, in a balanced game, matchup versatility might actually end up being the “broken” thing.

Astute observation.

It did in A2 and was fully invincible on start up and + on hit/block.

I really like this outfit for her

She looks good in that. But I’ve never been on board with the whole making Chun a skimpy character. Sure, she shows a lot of leg, but it’s quite tame compared to every other female SF character that isn’t Ingrid, Ibuki or Karin. I just don’t want her reduced to someone mostly popular for sex appeal. She’s an icon, the first fighting game woman. She isn’t Mika. Sees her alt for SFV
Oh.

This picture…
I think I have to play RE3 by the time.

There is nothing you can change about this.
There’re people who reduce strong womens in video games (such as Chun,Cammy,Jill [insert 20 others here]) just to their look and appearance.
Most “fans” don’t care much about their personality and just their look.

I actually like Chun for her strong fighting spirit and her will to go on and fight for the future. Something she shares with Cammy.

That said,Chun never was a thick char outside of her legs. She was allways pretty slender, muscular legs and pretty much no arm muscles.(If we ignore her Arnold Schwarzenegger Alpha Sprite)
Chun is (as much as Cammy) sexy because she is strong, not because she shows a lot skin.
But of course people will reduce her to this, only focus on her look and don’t care about her personality.

Videogames. Sometimes they reflect the RL.

Chun-Li is iconic in the sense that she shows her strength WITHOUT the need of showing a lot of skin. Fans relate to her as the ass-kicking heroine of Street Fighter, but no matter what she wears, Alpha costume, classic costume, or even the SFV alternate, we can appreciate that her original character was always strong, powerful, and beautiful. And did not need a sexy costume to fit into the franchise.

Yes, people are gonna want the female characters to show more skin, have a more sex appeal, but you get that for nearly every game that has ever existed. It doesn’t bother me in the sense. Regardless what Chun-Li wears, she’s always gonna be my favorite .

For me, Chun can show a lot of skin that she’s never in a skimpy category. She’s always in a mature-sexy category, even when showing skin:

She’s a bit like Rose. She’s more on a mature side of sexy. At least that’s how I see her more risqué outfits

I always liked Chun’s alternate 3 the most out of any currently made alts, only costume I like more than alternate 3 is her original. You just cannot beat her classic design IMO, it captures the essence of the character perfectly. Do hope they make some covered up outfits as alts though, I always found the concept of playing as a half naked girl in a fighting game kinda weird, like I was catfishing in some kinda way.

Long dress or jump suit that’s all I need Chun to have. The other shit is just party shit.