I hear ya. I thought the same pre-patch on Chun getting murked but didn’t voice it because I’m already a hater/shitter and didn’t want to reinforce my image.
I agree. I think the 2.5 patch will revert the DPs and small changes here and there but nothing big. What I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE as an adjustment would be soft throws added as a late tech (like in ST). I think the shimmy game is too strong, and everyone knows that the 50/50 (which is actually a 66/33) isn’t fun for anyone. It’s the whole thing that the shimmy 50/50 leads to another 50/50 90% of the time. Fuckin’ snooze cruise.
I just want no damn overnerfs for the upcoming patch. Look how it’s affected Nash, R.Mika, Chun, Ryu, Alex and Fang players for season 2. It just wouldn’t be right if they overnerfed Laura, Urien and Rog despite how strong they are, they need to focus on buffing more so than nerfing but they can’t get that through their thick skulled heads
I can’t tell you how many Cr. Mk xx Ex Legs I’ve gotten off shimmies
It’s laughable
I wish I could get St. Mp shimmies that I see a few chun’s hit from time to time, it leads to more damage potential.
Shimmy is easy to blow up with just about any button timed in a delayed fashion since shimmy is around -25 (totally unscientific frame approximation)
Buttons get blown up by frametraps, yes. But the window to beat frametraps is way smaller and totally different timing to beating shimmies.
I’ve had some players, in the 12-14k lp range remark that I’m “unshimmiable” or whatever. I can’t really articulate the timing that I use but I do use a bit of guessing and a bit of timing and a bit of mixing up my defenses.
Note however, that I’m talking about tick shimmies. Shimmies as you are waking up are a totally different ballgame because the timing between teching and not teching, is very close, unlike a normal shimmy.
Also note that characters that come with “shimmy buttons” like cammys/akumas/Karins st.lk are an exception to the rule.
Most of the shimmies I see nowadays are projectile shimmies and wakeup game shimmies.
And while those are super potent, I don’t really count them as much because reasons.
Oh and for the record at anyone else, goofyhand is a better player than I am, or at least was last time we played years ago.
Most of this forum is probably better than I am. I was never great and my in game reactions have slowed down considerably in old age. But if I’m finding it easy to defend against shimmies then I think others should be able to as well.
If you’re playing Guile people shouldn’t even be close enough to you half the time for them to shimmy you any way. Plus, Guile just got done dealing with a previous SF game where he got put in entire vortexes after people got close to him. A shimmy, just gonna have to deal with that. People tell you to take the throw because there’s maybe like, 5 characters that get meaties off their forward throws. The majority of them don’t. Taking a forward throw into reset essentially resets you against most of the cast.
Offense isn’t really strong enough in this game for shimmies to be a problem. They’re pretty much a necessity because of how long the throw tech windows are how turn based the pressure is for most of the cast. Like Dime said, delayed teching and pressing a button back at people walking backwards does enough to deal with abuse of shimmies.
Bison players in particular are really hard to shimmy because they will press a 3 frame s.LK with great range that is plus on block then instant they see you walking backwards too predictably.
I’ve played some ultra platinum and diamond balrog, what they do when you jump in at them is anti air you and then shimmie you. They use cr. high punch to high skrew to ex dash punch to some sick damage. Personally i like to use cr. mk to ex legs for some nice damage and it’s safe on block if i miss time it, I also like cr. mk to medium legs, because it’s +2 on hit. Also just to mention i don’t main balrog I main chun li, i just play around with him to understand his weaknesses and setups.
You are not the only one who feels awkward with Kikoken. Charge moves now have shorter execution window and you have to do it closer to when the Kikoken actually comes out.
As for Air legs… I am not sure. My execution level of Air legs changes on a daily basis. XD
I have just found out that there will be a further balance tune up. I am glad to hear it because I literally stopped playing this game after the initial examination of the previous patch. Pros who main Chun had better take a long view and act accordingly until the new patch hits. And we should raise our collective voices so that we will not be treated like last time again.
The game is currently dominated by “one-touch-into-death” characters (or “do-not-touch-me-ever” character like Guile), and that is bad for Chun and bad for the game as a whole. I personally hate that kind of game, and every time a SF game went in that direction in the past I quit. And I must not be alone because the game also died in popularity when that happened.
Yes, Chun should get a couple buffs. She needs them bad. Those special cancel into vtrigger buffs are a joke and didn’t help Chun at all. Not to mention, even if they did help the vtrigger timer so short doesn’t even matter.
I just made the jump over to Chun-Li and so far I’ve been enjoying playing as her. I’m losing, but I’m having fun.
I used to main Claw in SF4 and the other games because I have a lame playstyle that I based around annoying pokes and whiff punishing rather than rushdown.
In SFV-S1 I felt like Capcom screwed me over by taking away everything that made Claw fun to play in the other games(also input delay made it extremely difficult to whiffpunish).
Because to this I’ve struggled with finding a main. I’ve mostly played Dictator and Boxer, but they just didn’t work out for me. Dictator makes me braindead and Boxer is just cheap.
It’s not satisfying to win with any of them, but now that I’ve started playing Chun. I’m having fun again. I’m still adjusting to her, but she showed me that my playstyle is still viable.
Sure it’s not optimal(cough input delay,cough), but the feeling you get when you make a Urien or Necalli squirm and struggle to get in is amazing.
She was hit a bit to heavy by nerfhammer. Even as someone that didn’t play her in S1 sees that and I do feel that people overestimated her S1 version. It was easier to whine and complain instead of learning the match up
and adapt.
V-trigger needs to last longer. That’s basically the worst complaint I have as of now. I’m sure more thing will bother me as they come to my attention, but atleast I’m finally having fun in this game now. It took a year…
You will of course have to adjust this theory to suit matchups and player preferences:
We all know that we basically have to optimise Chun more. This means really making things count with her. Besides the optimisations that I mentioned already as far as combos, there are other optimisations we can aim for.
V trigger pop:
We all know that slide and st.hp and fmp are decent v trigger pops. But I think with chuns bad shimmy game that we can really start to make her shimmy game pop. Once Chun has v trigger her shimmy game becomes much stronger. She can shimmy into cr.hp xx lk legs and if it hits she can just finish the combo into her wakeup game into another shimmy… but if it gets blocked then she can block confirm it and v trigger pop. Also note that of course she can v pop on hit as well.
Another thing Chun can start doing is waiting till she has super to go for shimmies.
Using super early can always be a mistake… but it can be a good call as well if Chun can get a decent starter off.
V trigger optimisation:
Of course we know v trigger helps Chun a bunch, but we probably need to list things if they haven’t been already:
Moves to use in v trigger:
Fhk
Overhead
Cr.lk,cr.lp,cr.mk BnB
Shimmy into BHP,cr.mk (links on hit in v trigger) xx super or legs
I think those are most of the big ones.
If Chun players start to play a more patient game and use the pre v trigger time as a time to train our opponents, it might make her v trigger even better… why waste the pop on a cr.mp that is 0 on block and has a 66% chance of getting blocked?
Maybe we just need to try and make our decisions a bit more impactful when it comes to v trigger and stop autopiloting our use of meter…
Chuns v trigger is EXCEPTIONALLY strong on hit, so maybe we can start to abuse that fact with a bit more intelligence put towards her v meter pops and v meter strings rather than just going for overhead and cr.lk mixups… fhk mixups on shimmy as an example might be really ridiculous once in v trigger and when Chun has full meter. A fhk>BnB xx super does 420 damage as an example and 300 for no meter.
So the damage is there… if we optimise her combos and our choices with regards to meter.
He also said in v2012/Ult that he would just play Ryu cause Chun was too much work. He didn’t change then either.
He’s about as reliable as Ono when it comes to these things. It’s pretty much the sign of the apocalypse if either he or Nuki ever not ever use Chun anymore.
So after having played necalli for like a day… I’ve come to an epiphany with Chun and this game in general:
Most characters +2 or +3 on block medium attack is how the game is played.
Let me explain.
With necalli it’s super easy… with Chun not so much but still very doable:
Necallis st.mk is +2 on block and +5 on hit. You can actually just walk up and do st.mk then walk up st.mk then walk up st.mk again and if any of them hit you can pretty easily confirm into necallis medium punches into a special.
Well Chun has the same thing with her st.mp… except Chun is way faster than necalli.
Now the cool thing is, once Chun makes contact with a cr.lp or something it’s easy to just walk up a bit and st.mp and that puts Chun in walk up throw range.
With necalli in practice it’s a really good offense and I can’t see it not being effective with Chun.
The hard part is just that it’s a semi hard confirm… but doable. On block chuns at plus frames and can threaten an advantaged cr.mk.
Unfortunately Chun has to combo into hk legs here or ex legs… but she still gets very good damage either way.
Anywho, yeah
And actually though it’s a risk, you can assume that it’s going to be a CH in the situation you hit it in… so if you do you can actually do CH st.mp,cr.hp xx l legs, cr.lk xx ex legs for 272 damage against a standing opponent.
I am gonna start to use backdash to shimmy people instead of walking backwards. I will hit the lab when i come back home from work tomorrow. I saw Kazunoko doing that a lot with Cammy, i will try to with Chun and see if i can find any success with that. I doubt it though but still gonna give it a shot.
