Chun Li General Thread: Blue Jade

I basically just dug up even the scrubbiest play I could on Chun from E3 causal, BET and SDCC
not much to see but you’ll catch little things here and there that work or could work if the player did ‘this’ or ‘that’

The start up looks quick enough, he just did the senen shuu too early which telegraphed it and got stuffed. Didn’t meaty it like he should have so at least mashing c.LK wouldn’t have won. These are very experimental battles. Nothing to get serious about yet.

If that’s the vicious I think it is, he’s actually a very competent player. Though he’s never been a chun main afaik.

In that video I do see some cool things… But I also see some very bad things. Primary bad thing is cammy has a mixup on jumpins by regular jump or divekick to change the timing of her jumpins… She’s always had this but seeing as to how chun can no longer rely on backdash invincibility and focus backdash in general to deal with it… Bodes very badly for chun especially considering the super cheese that Cammys divekick becomes in v trigger.

And my new standard response to people that say “it’s to soon to judge whether this character will be good in the real game or not” will now be:

"It certainly is to soon to judge the game that doesn’t yet exist. But it isn’t to soon to judge the beta… Which is what we are doing. Things COULD change. But we could also get hit by an asteroid in less than a year. We can only talk about what we can see there is no point in talking about things that might come as if those things that might come, are already here.

I think that’s a good thing as far as the meta goes as it forces the developers to come up with things other than the generic options like parry and focus to deal with dive kick types of pressure. We’ll see what they come up with or if there’s some other things not being experimented with.

I’d say the beta would be better to judge after we see more footage from Evo and the 6 day beta commences itself. Then we’ll see a lot more play from higher level players streaming regularly for 6 days. Rather than very limited time of play at events that may have input delay on the monitors.

Yeah that’s one way of looking at it. But when it comes to capcom and balancing I tend to take a very pessimistic point of view.

Chances are, knowing capcoms track record with how they balance things:

1.Divekicks won’t be balanced.
2. If there is a balance, then it won’t be via buff to Chun/non divekickers, it will be a nerf to Divekicks in general.

The reason is simply because of less work in general. If the nerf Divekicks then they don’t have to worry about an overpowered attack destroying some weird matchup… But if they buff certain characters ability to AA Divekicks then they buff those characters AA abilities across all matchups and thus have to do some further balance stuff and so on and so forth. This is the reason why I hate Divekicks in general… They always cause an imbalance inherently speaking, and unlike certain imbalances I find divekick imbalances to be completely uninteresting to play against because of the lack of actual interaction that goes on when a divekick is around.

That went off on a divekick tangent but really it can be applied to anything. Capcom isn’t really the type of company that buffs characters much at all. Mostly what they do is nerf what’s already there because it makes there job easier and this is why they’ve made sf4 and sfxt the way they have. They started out with fun but overpowered things in many forms and then they toned everything down until you get vanilla boring ass fighter part infinitum.

That was then, but new Capcom isn’t following a lot of their old habits even when it comes to the gameplay. If you told me a year ago that SFV wouldn’t have invincible backdashes and would have actual damaging combos and neutral hits I would have been like “yeah ok…sure lemme see it first”. But it’s here

Capcom seems like they’re really listening this time around even when it comes to basic things like confirming there will be no Super or Ultra SFV (just one title like LoL which has been hugely successful on one title). It’s like you said before, if there are issues we should get them out there early and something like a beta to test netcode and general feel of the game’s meta and balance goes perfectly with being able to get the word out before a full release. This is the time to theorize, experiment, record data and give feedback where they are giving it to us. Whereas in SFIV other than a few location tests you pretty much just had to get what you were given day one.

When it comes to Capcom buffing Chun - I rest my case on how long it took them to FINALLY fix the Hosenka corner juggle…
Only took 6 years XD

I have some thoughts on dealing with those pesky jump ins. her St. Mk is really fast and looks to have some awesome reach, but I haven’t seen anyone attempt an anti-air with. Cr. Hp could be a good anti-air too. St. Mp could be a decent way to avoid and cross under certain jump-ins.
I saw Gootecks use Cr. Mp with Ryu as an Anti-Air and even Combofiend said “WHAT!?” LOL
Gootecks said something like "Put that in your patch notes, haha"
So I like we’ve all been saying there are a lot of unexplored fundamentals.

A lot of people jump on the what combos bandwagon and believe me I’m one of them.
But at the end of the day what works in those key situations moments represent the core fundamentals. They have to come first.
You can do 15 hit combos but if you can’t block, anti-air, tech, punish - you’re dead!

Vicious was Cammy not Chun as per the video description and other vids of him using Cammy.

The mix up of jump-in or dive kick that you’re worried about isn’t as bad as you think. Cammy Dive Kicks have a minimum height restriction on it and if done at that height is unsafe on block. There are other ways to deal with Cammy jump in options, such as neutral jump RH which will beat both at the right spacing.

The Chun player also could have won those rounds had he knew the maximum punish situations on those blocked Cannon Drills. Each time he blocked those he could have done cr.Fierce (1) xx Short Legs, cr.Jab xx SBK or EX Legs. It definitely would have closed out rounds 2 and 3 for him had he done that.

Nice catch. I missed the fact that vicious was cammy. I should have known since he loves his divekickers or, you know from looking at the vid description more than a glance.

As far as chun versus divekicks I’m not going to argue this with you. I’ve talked it over and over and over with shizza when he was playing and I’ve watched valmaster games and seen how he deals with them. As far as chuns AAs with all due respect concerning sf4 at least I probably know more about them than you do. As far as 5 is concerned I do not. But seeing as to how neutral jump roundhouse is a predictive AA rather than a reactive one… I don’t buy it. It’s like saying that Rufus can jhk as an anti divekick strat. Divekicks are stupid. End of story. so since they are in sf5 it will be paramount to figure out how to play against them for everyone. Whether everyone has good anti divekick starts is anyone’s guess but I digress. You words are in no way reassuring cause they are the same words that I heard years ago they weren’t true then and I have suspicions they aren’t true now. Been there done that.

The only thing that I will give up is that the divekicks may indeed be much more unsafe on block than they were in vanilla/super sf4 but that still gives a momentum advantage to the divekickers. Not such a bad thing when one has crazy divekick AAs, but when one doesn’t it presents problems.

Oh, I definitely wasn’t speaking about SFIV when it comes to Chun’s options. I’m not even going to hazard a guess as to Chun’s options in SFIV since I don’t play Chun nor do I play SFIV anymore.

I’m specifically talking about SFV and from my experiences at e3, Cammy is not + frames after her dive kicks at max height restriction. It’ll also depend on where you’re blocking the dive kick so if their not aiming for the feet then it’s unsafe. Nothing new from SFIV obviously. Chun definitely needs some tweaks and a lot of her repertoire in the early builds were removed so she needs something to make her more versatile and interesting again.

Seems like J. Hp TC does make a juggle state for follow up Mk stomps, at least with V-trigger activated.
I read with E3 notes that J.Hp caused a knockdown and footage certainly seemed to suggest it as the opponent fell pretty quick
But given that face the J.Hp under V-trigger would net 6 hits - making the availability of follows up present.
We’ve already seen her Overhead can be linked afterward with lights.
Dunno why but I’m smelling the potential for semi-V-trigger only infinite. I hope we have Leg Loops again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQomyHQrjcQ&t=4m32s

Decent Chun play from the recent Max video. She still gets bopped, she still looks blah in the neutral, but there’s some nice V-Trigger stuff there.

That is actually the very video I was talking about in my above post with J. HP in V-Trigger.
This Chun actually left a lot of damage on the table, newness, nerves etc., etc., aside Max could have been dead if those Cr. Mk were canceled into anything.
He landed it many times and dropped several combo attemtps of Cr. Lk, Lp, Mk xx LLegs - he missed the Cr. Mk link.
again newness, nerves etc.,

I spent a few hours with Omega Chun today following the advice of Gootecks and Max.
I just focused on what I knew Chun can do in SFV and ingored what she could in 4 essentialy.
Cammy definitely looks more SFV-ish in Omega than Chun does, but you can still see a lot of tidbits that are actually pretty promising.
I’m excited to test out some theories next week as a result.

well pretty sure c.LP doesn’t link to c.MK anyway.

Overhead is a legit threat with v-trigger, cool.

As of E3 pre-beta PS4 release
St. Lp, Cr. Mk and Cr. Lp, Cr.Mk
both work in SF5
Even Cr. Mk, Cr.Lk works oddly enough without V-Trigger. Possibly only with Counter Hit, I’d have to see the footage again to check.

I’m most curious about St. Mp, it’s very close range but reminds me of Juri’s Cl.St.Mp.
She seems to move forward making the range a bit deceptive plus it is cancelable.
Last I heard B/F+ Mp wasn’t cancelable which is an atrocity, I’m not sure what good it really is.
My advice for anyone playing at EVO or trying her out in the beta is utilize the moves we hardly see in footage.
St. Hp is just like it is in SF4 only faster, why isn’t anyone using that awesome attack?
F+Hk just like 3rdStrike, again another awesome move that is linkable
St. Hk, SERIOUSLY! B+Hk is a great anti-air, but look at St. Hk, it is a fast and far reaching attack. it makes Bison’s St. Hk from SF4 look weak.
I’m so ready for Beta and I get my new shiny stick tomorrow, WOO!

Where is there any vid of her far st.hk? From what I remember seeing it’s some jump attack thing? I only ever saw it up close but sf5 doesn’t have proximity normals does it? I can’t remember but if you can link to the vid where this poke is I’d love to see it… This may be the missing clue!

Ive never seen c.LP c.MK on normal hit. CH sure. On CH even c.MK c.MK hits.

The 3s hop HK is f.HK. s.HK is like SF4 one.

Oh ok… I haven’t seen this normal! This is good very good. Does anyone have any vids where it is done? I need to see its range and speed. The sf4 one was good but slow startup and extremely vulnerable low and lost range against short characters.

Here you go my friend. Sorry for the bad quality of the pic.

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/29/1437052889-hk.png

And here is the video : https://youtube.com/watch?v=Gjnv7VEzKLw