A couple of meaty setups if you want to fish for those beefy v-trigger st. HK combos in the corner (see video CharmingRogue posted). The only thing is it’s probably only going to be practical vs characters whose 3f wakeups are standing normals (Vega, Rashid, Balrog, Bison etc):
Vs Quickrise after EX Legs or SBK knockdown -> whiff cr. MK then st. HK
Vs Backrise after EX Legs or SBK knockdown -> whiff st. MK then st. HK
Forward Throw Quickrise -> tap down quickly then do st. HK
(If you’re not already in V-trigger):
Vs Quickrise after EX Legs or SBK knockdown -> Dash, Activate V-trigger then st. HK
Vs Backrise after EX Legs or SBK knockdown -> Dash, Activate V-trigger, tap down quickly then st. HK
Forward Throw Quickrise -> Activate V-trigger then st. HK
Sweep xx VTC vs Quickrise -> whiff cr. MK then st. HK
With v-trigger activation for some of these you can actually see how the opponent chose to get up.
-You can also try after a blocked jump in to tag them with CC st. HK as most people try to late throw tech when you’re that close and st. HK is really good for blowing that up (may have to condition them early on).
695 Stun is pretty awesome.
So I finally left the Lab and actually played some season 2 Chun seriously
I’m pretty well playing her the same way I did before only I don’t land the classic BNB of St. Mp, Cr.mk xx MK SBK as much as I used to.
but I went 8-1 because a scrub Akuma got one win and ducked out.
With the nerfs to pokes across the board, two of Chun’s normals stand out much more than they did last season: b+mp and st.hk. b+mp is the only (afaik) ranged medium poke that is 0 on block, making it perhaps the most spammable medium in the game and relatively as strong if not stronger than Karin’s s1 st.mk; and st.hk, while obviously flawed, still has comparatively amazing frame data for a poke of such range (it also still has other advantages over st.hp such as crush countering and more readily stuffing jumps). I’ve played quite a few sets of s2 and don’t think I’ve ever been whiff punished for throwing out st.hk on someone crouching.
Furthermore, with people no longer playing around air legs and thus being much more likely to tech against Chun, I have found a pretty great connect rate on vt point-blank hopkicks (aka dash-up f+hk). It also seems a bit more difficult for people to react to and stuff, since its startup is not quite as instantly recognizable as a point-blank jump and hopkick, like air legs, goes over most lows. Not that it’s amazing, particularly since it only converts meaningfully during v-trigger… but it does give Chun a strong throw bait with great damage.
Overall, I’m surprisingly fine with post-nerf Chun. Let us not forget that s1 Chun was an amazing character despite a game that was much more about pressure than neutral, and s2 should be a much more forgiving environment overall for her. My main complaint is that st.lk seems fairly useless, and anti-airing is overall much worse with b+hp, nj.hk, and air throw nerfs as well (although st.mp tentatively looks pretty good as an antiair); nevertheless, Majorboy was consistently anti-airing everyone online with b+hk just a few months into the game’s release, so I’m confident that this character still has pretty great potential.
After playing with her for a few days I really just don’t like this version of Chun. And the biggest reason why is she just can’t mount or maintain any kind of pressure offensive. The pushback of s.lp is just really bad and for me was the biggest nerf for me to adjust to. Her block strings just aren’t that good anymore either and neither give you any real options to fish out a counter hit. It’s really hard to make your opponent feel the heat. Combine that with the horrific damage she deals out, I don’t know why anyone is scared of her now. She’s back to being the boring old poke queen except even now those are worse. After using them a lot, her new V-trigger options I’ve concluded are just gimmicks. They’re not enough to make up for what she lost. The ones you are most likely to land all do poor damage and aren’t worth the execution. Especially now with her V-trigger being as short as it is now, you can forget making comebacks with Chun.
If her damage was a bit better I could almost see her getting by with just her pokes, but now that she can’t maintain any real pressure AND deals bad damage, I think she’s gonna fall hard. She might’ve been able to survive if she only lost one or the other, but not both. IALL was a huge loss and she wasn’t compensated well enough to have lost such a huge part of her gameplan. The “increase” in her throw rage is a joke and practically non existent. Might as well just give her back her kara throws if they actually thought a slight throw range increase was gonna make up for losing advantage IALL. She’s capable and of course there are other characters much worse off than her, but she’s definitely not fun anymore for me.
If you played Season 1 Chun the whole season odds are you won’t like what happened. Although some people are saying they are trying Chun for the first time now and finding her fun.
It’ll be interesting to see which top players stick with her and what results they get
Chun is dead. After playing with her for a long time after season 2, versus really high level players, you have no chance. Yes, you might get lucky and play a perfect game, but as soon as you make one or two mistakes you’re dead.
Season 1 Chun wasn’t this unstoppable force. She had weaknesses and was very much beatable. Now, she is pretty much worthless. Capcom killed air legs, killed st.lk, killed cr.lp, killed st.lp, killed vtrigger, and expect Chun li to survive with a shorter vtrigger and combos that require high level execution but give little damage. Capcom didn’t nerf Chun. They raped Chun.
Now, season 2 Urien, Guile, Balrog are super over powered and even better than season 1 Chun by a mile. This shit is funny as fuck. Capcom are idiots and don’t know what they’re doing.
Too bad cause I liked Chun and had high hopes for her. Now, that dream is dead. Chun li will forever be remembered as what could have been. At least Mika still does crazy damage in the corner and if you make one mistake you’re still dead vs Mika. Chun just got raped. She took this nerfing hammer the hardest straight up the ass.
She is frustrating to play at times but i still like her at core. People who keep talking about her her pressure is dead doesn’t seem to me like they play others characters. Ryu get zero shit after his throws now, Ken doesn’t get anything mid-screen, Cammy never did. Ken’s ex tatsu and Cammy’s Ex divekick are both minus as hell if they aren’t spaced really well which makes them super tough to land cuz the trajectory on them is fixed.
There is no i am getting in tools so hold it anymore. I Know that some people are hurt over IALL but honestly it is not useless. Being -2 isn’t the end of the world as some here are doing. Mika players followup after st.MP on block all the time, Rashid players are still doing mixers all the time. Doesn’t that means that their moves are useless ?
People are saying that you don’t get damage for pokes and that is partially not true. You can get CH F.MP into EX legs, that is some excellent damage and stun now from a poke that is very safe. The same can be said for F.HK and st.HK both of which will net you combos on counter hits.
Her anti-airs are trickier (I agree with that ) but am more glad that BS moves that couldn’t get anti-aired like Ken’s air tatsu and divekicks are now less prevalent.
tl:dr Chun is a mid tier now. You just have to accept that. She isn’t gonna carry a player anymore and you will have to work harder for your victory. She relies more on her pokes now but that doesn’t mean that air legs is completely useless IMO. It will still eats some pokes, it will still beat throws. It is still there for what its original design intention was.
I find it funny all these pros still saying Chun is Top 5, yet none of them play her.
We’ll see what happens come CPT '17. Hopefully Pro Chun’s can show me what I’m doing wrong. because apparently I’m doing a lot wrong since season 2 started. I had a real good day - I’ve been getting bodied since.
yo @“DevilJin 01” we have to play soon man. I’m still liking the character too lol. I am a bit bummed that I don’t have top player replays to watch anymore though.
Try many matches and I realized Chunli gameplan has changed alot, and new meta game should be around these technique (some of you guys have realized as well):
Chun cannot fully attack like SS1, her new gameplan should be defense and counter attack like SF4
Use cr.lk point blank as a shield, when opponent is near Chun, it can interrupt many moves because its start up is 3 frames, and it can confirm into combo.
Her new poke is St.lp (counter hit) link to Cr.mk - God like!!
Her go-to combo should be around V-skill to build V-meter (sacrifice some damage to convert to her V-Bar) because V-Trigger now only last 10 seconds so we must gain V-Bar as quickly as possible to have 2 V-Trigger per round. Thus, the link from Heavy attack like Jump HP or HK should link to V-skill instead.
10 seconds V-Trigger means we should not waste it for cancelling blocked slide cr.mp or blocked st.hp anymore. We must use it only from comfirm attack instead (LLs, back MP, st.hp, Kikoken…)
I noticed im wasting too many VT’s on blocked things, s1 bad habit i guess. I am playing more defensive game now and trying to bate and react on counter much more than before. Before i was like if counter happens it happens might react might not, i got other tools anyway, but now im like i need that fkin counter or i’m dead. Anyway since im sticking with Chun this is gonna be a long year.
I’m seeing a lot of people in here say that Chun is dead and I’m curious as to why they think that. I don’t main Chun but from what have seen she still seems very viable.
IMO opinion IALL deserved 2 get nerfed as did her v trigger time
They nerfed damage across the board as well (for the most part) as AA jab so that sucks for everyone
So what is it about the other changes that make her dead?
I’m not trolling really want 2 get Chun players perspective on this
All practice for air legs has been for naught, and Chun has new high-execution combos which deal comparatively low damage. She has awful throw range, poor shimmies (because sbk is charge) and her only 3f is now minus on block (very important in forward throw situations vs 4f characters, or after hopkicks), so her pressure is pretty terrible now.
Strange nerfs to moves such as b+hp’s anti-air hitbox and nj.hk’s startup make her anti-air game much more difficult especially as b+hk still isn’t very good. She’s also still going to struggle against zoning as always, and although Ryu is seemingly pretty trash, Guile is now a contender for best character in the game.
Don’t get me wrong, as I’m personally still sticking with Chun and agree that she’ll still be at least mid-tier. Chun is clearly far stronger than characters like Vega, Birdie, Mika, Fang, even Ryu. But many high level Chun players are picking up other characters and when you’re competing in the game at the highest level, it’s easy to see why they’d want to play characters other than Chun.
Chun - strong neutral character with an average projectile, average to below-average anti-airs, poor damage even with high execution, and poor pressure
Guile - projectile character with strong neutral, amazing anti-airs, average to good pressure
Urien - strong neutral, has an average projectile, decent pressure, amazing damage off of anti-airs and a +1 cr.mk (low, extremely long range) in a game with worse pokes across the board
Cammy - great footsies and pressure, many anti-fireball moves, still has the best anti-air normal in the game (b+mp) which was actually better than anti-air jabs, V-trigger comparably strong to pre-nerf Chun V-trigger
Karin (who isn’t even shaping up to be top-tier) - great footsies and pressure, many anti-fireball moves, rewards moderate execution with high damage but poor anti-airs
You guys should notice the real buff for Chunli SS2, that is "Extending the hit box of St.MP forward"
I have tested it and it works perfectly as frame trap and pressure. Even more, it’s + on block, can also lead to 215 damage on counter hit combo and Knock Down as well (st.mp–> cr.mk–> LSBK) so why do we need IAll anymore?
Then I develop the technique around st.Mp because it can hit much more easier than before (in SS1 i found it very hard to do)
Cr.lp (or Cr.LK) --> wait a bit—> St.MP
Cr.lp (or Cr.LK) --> walk back a bit—> walk forward a bit—> St.Mp
St.Mp----> walk forward a bit----> St.MP
St.LP—> dash forward—> St.MP
That is God Like, I see many counter hits on opponent because of this technique, it beats many moves
For now I’m trying to develop and get habit to do more damage from this tactic, for example
Was far better in season 1, st.lp and legs had far less push back on hit and block making it easy to score a counter hit st.lp which leads to cr.mk->legs.
Yeah all those tactics were already being regularly used in season 1 and/or yielded more reward. St. LP was leagues better than it is now… and most characters can use their own st. LP like that anyway. The st. MP tactics listed were also used a lot in season 1, so it’s not really new. I wouldn’t call any of it god like… just standard pressure.
Something I haven’t noticed people doing yet though is blocked F+MP and then st. MP as a counter poke. F+MP always pushes you out of jab range even from point blank, so anything else they stick out that would reach you, is not going to be faster than your st. MP and you can buffer that counter-poke into Legs/EX Legs… Legs doesn’t come out on whiff. Counter hit st. MP will also still be in range to link a F+MP (xx v-trigger etc.). This tactic only loses to the lowest profile of mid-range pokes, in which case you can do blocked F+MP -> cr. LK to catch those.
I wouldn’t say dead, but definitely more effort and risk involved and less payoff for said risk and effort… which are generally the main factors in determining how viable a character is. I’ve made a lot of adjustments to the changes so far, but I’d say controlling space and opening people up in pressure has gotten unnecessarily hard vs competent opponents unless I have v-trigger activated, and when I do it takes more openings to actually kill, which I’m not a fan of. The reversal nerf doesn’t really affect Chun Li, so she still makes the same type of decisions in that regard. Missing anti-airs that would’ve worked before (and knowing that when they do work they won’t be much damage) is probably the most frustrating aspect because it’s very important to be able to AA consistently with Chun. Low damage AAs don’t serve as a good enough deterrent to stop most people from jumping, so you have to make it add up by punishing stubborn opponents over and over… they’ve now made that harder than it should be and now you have to mind the different angles and switch up your AA move more often (or even just resort to blocking the jumpin). People compare this to SF4 Chun, but even SF4 Chun got more reward for her anti-air abilities. Only when V-trigger is active is when you can do some truly worthwhile damage for AAs imo.
Honestly, the only buff I’ve gotten regular use out of is legs canceled into v-trigger. The cr. LK buff is inconsistent to confirm with based on you and your opponent’s stance or state (will make a short video showing this and hopefully they’ll fix it). The other actual buffs are very situational and therefore won’t be seen often in her regular gameplan imo (I guess the throw range helps a little).
A lot of this comes back to v-trigger almost always being needed to be a threat at high level and despite the possibility of getting two per round because the timer has has been reduced to 12-13 seconds, I have yet to see that actually happen… even when I try to activate as soon as possible. I think being able to do this will still be heavily reliant on building v-gauge outside of taking damage. I’m working on different ways to approach using the v-skill to get v-gauge, but I’m not sure if they will work out that well yet.
-Damage was not nerfed across the board. It might seem that way since quite a few characters got hit with a damage nerf, but outside of throw damage and stun nerfs, there are also quite a few characters who got no damage nerfs to anything else and also got buffs to a bunch of their moves (including damage buffs in some cases).
Tweeted this to Capcom Fighters so hopefully someone takes note of it and fixes it. Sorry my voice is kind of low at some parts. Should’ve adjusted the mic volume:
So some have found that IALL is +4H against crouching but only +3H standing. Can someone check to see if IALL is -1B against crouching? If so, then IALL isn’t dead because Chun-Li can back dash away from any 3F or 4F normal, even at point-blank range, if she is at -1. Someone check this, because it COULD make IALL viable again.