Chun Li General Thread: Blue Jade

Street Fighter V Chun-Li
3041

Naw the meterless dp thing is the guts. I fucking meatied this shit necalli 4 times in a row stuffing his wakeup DP.

He obviously didn’t get the patch notes. I was using akuma though but meh. The meterless dp is definitely a thing. I tried reversaling with meterless dp on many occasions and got stuffed for my troubles a lot. You really need to use meter to guarantee that invincibility. People I’ve been playing against have adjusted and started to use ex reversals and the effect I envisioned is exactly what is happening. You get hit by an ex reversal and they no longer have super so it’s still a “win” for the aggressor.

But it’s also a win for the defender. It’s one of the few “win/win” situations in the game. But if you get your metered reversal blocked the CC’d? It’s a game/round losing mistake.

It’s working PERFECTLY.

With Chun it will be harder though since you guys no longer get meaty from sbk oki.

Yeah, that sucks.

3042

Yoooo Kikoken/EX Kikoken is like +19 on block and hit. You can kiko xx VT cancel -> Dash ->cr. LP and it’s still a blockstring lol.
St. MP after the dash nets you a counter hit (follow up with cr. HP etc.) or you can even slight delay F+HK for a counterhit setup… and this is from point blank. It’s even MORE plus if you hit it from farther away like after cancelling from cr. MK. I was getting stuff like Kiko xx VT cancel -> dash -> F+MP as a counterhit on 3f attacks… what?
You can probably even throw v-reversal on reaction since it won’t start to come out until after the VT cancel freeze is over.

These are the other v-trigger frame advantages/disadvantages on block (slightly updated from before):

-st. LP: +2
-cr. LP: 0
-st. LK: -3
-cr. LK: -1
-st. MP: +5
-F+MP: +4
-cr. MP: 0
-st. MK: +3
-cr.MK: +6
-st. HP: +9
-cr. HP: +9
-B+HP: +8
-st. HK: +3
-cr. HK: +5
-B+HK: +8
-LLegs: 0
-EX Legs: +4
-Kikoken: +19
-EX Kikoken: +19

3043

Once people stop mashing meterless DPs on wake up and figure out how to use them in neutral, the inherent advantages of meterless DPs will show again. Cammy still has the best meterless DP in the game and you will see it used a lot. Again, allowing her to save meter to disrespect options that other characters have to blow their meter for. Which means a Cammy that’ll inevitably be less starved for meter than other characters. Everyone saw how often Poongko, Kazu and Xiaohai used meterless DPs in neutral and that isn’t going away at all.

She still bullies the neutral for a lot of characters and there may be some other things that lead to oki we aren’t looking at. We’ll see what comes up in the coming months.

The BUFFS. I meant to try and play around with this, but good to just get someone else giving the jist.

3044

Alright I have tried Chun-Li today and played a bunch of matches, finally i feel that i can give my opinion on the character.

**- Chun-Li is still good enough but is really weird. **

1- The st.HP nerf isn’t really that significant. I honestly didn’t get punished once today for using it and my opponents really tried to punish it. It is still a pretty good poke and in conjuction with F.MP, st.MK and other pokes, we can really push they grey life down our opponent’s neck.

2- Standing light kick is still a decent anti-air. Now this i feel i have to elaborate on a little bit. Standing light kick is a good AA to catch people jumping from mid to far range. I found B.HK to be a very decent AA for close jump in. Honestly, i feel that my st.LK won like 85% of the time from that range, you will trade sometimes but that rarely happens when your timing and spacing are on point. Anti-airing with Chun now requires much better sense of positioning and decision making. It is honestly a lot more fun that way than a one button beats all character.

3- Air legs nerf is real but it is not all doom and gloom. This is one that i have felt the strongest about now, yeah air legs is in much worse position now. However, being -2 isn’t the end of the world. It is honestly not that bad of a deal for an option that can be hard to deal with with some characters and can lead to about 35o stun combos. You can also do the tricky EX SBK to steal a turn from your opponent. I found the MK version to be decent but a bit hard to confirm a cr.LP on crouching from it. I have been mostly alternating between LK legs and MK legs and following up with cr.LK, cr.LP into LK SBK.

4- V-trigger is way shorter than i initially thought it would. I feel that you get the activation VTC combo, ,maybe another combo but that is pretty much it afterwards. It feels way shorter than it used to be.

5- Fireballs do indeed feel worse, but we will get used to it.

The thing i wanna discuss, and i want to ask you if it is just me. I have been having MUCH MUCH harder time doing st.LP into SBK post the patch. It feels way too weird and strict now. I tried doing cr.LK xx LK legs , st.LP xx LK SBK but i can’t for the life of me get consistent with it. It is very fuckable IMO. Speaking of that, i do feel that most of the buffs are kinda pointless.

Now here me out, I haven’t found any real situation to apply that cr.LK xx LL Legs mentioned above except after IALL but other than that, the buff feels worthless. I also not very fond of LK legs into VTC cuz i still find st.HP VTC and cr.MP VTC to be far more important in the neutral. The st.HK CC buff in V-trigger is nice but i haven’t had that happen except once in like 50 games today. People just aren’t throwing out reversals willy nilly anymore.

Overall, Chun is still in a decent enough shape and is still going to get bitched about. I came out more relieved and happier than i have expected. I am not feeling the fun of the buffs yet but the nerfs aren’t game breaking either.

3045

I’ve played her a couple hours and the first impression was bad : she feels like an oiled bird to me now lol

I know It still a bit too soon to tell, since everyone needs to figure out all balance changes, but atm, Chun feels pretty usable.

Of course, and as expected, there was no 20 sec wins anymore. I had to play more patient, with moderate pressure and very few rushdowns.

st.lk trades a bit now, but it works well if timed and spaced correctly. I tried to use st.mp as AA too, and it worked surprisingly well to me.
Not used to all her new stuff, still using cr.lp on wake up mostly but having the possibility to punish out-of-cr.lp-range characters with cr.lk > ex legs is good.
Her new throw range helped me too.
The thing i really hate is the startup of neutral jump HK, feels really lame, and the combo delay after st.lp and b.hp. It feels soooooooo… idk, as if the game was choked smh.
I almost don’t use iall anymore, it feels so slow on startup that I could almost dp myself out of it using a second controller lol

It’s like the whole game got back to where it was before its release, with overall slow animation, which was so criticized back then.
I don’t know what’s the plan, but I would have prefered the game to feel as “fast” as before (and it wasn’t even as fast as SF4) but we’ll see… Personally, I don’t give any credit for the muscle memory damage control article on EH to justify that we should think slower.

3046

You guys know that mk Instant air legs is +4 on hit if opponents is crouching, right?
I didn’t see anyone talking about this.

BTW

Her bnb, Cr.lp, st.mp, cr.mk xx mk sbk is now 210
But her new one, Cr.lp, st.mp xx mk legs, cr.lk xx mk legs is 213

I think that in this season, Chun will be more about keep the opponent in range of your pokes after lighting legs, instead of knocking with SBK more often, just a thought.

3047

My friend suggested cr. LK buffered into EX Legs to catch shimmys or walking back will be good.
I thought it was pretty basic at best, but after trying it out I’d say it is pretty good to throw out every once in a while.
It’s the only 3f low in the game that can be cancelled into a safe knockdown like that. If you have V-trigger you can pop it and get massive corner carry with cr. MK xx HK SBK after.

3048

It is not just you, it is there. Not sure if you know this, but it is because there is a nerf on the s.LP where there is a 4f delay on anything you cancel from the s.LP. This is why the s.LP to MKLL doesn’t work anymore. So if you do it too fast now (but is still the right timing from S1), it won’t come out. What I am doing for this is from the charging down on the LKLL, I move the stick to forward and then hit s.LP then plink the LK on the way up from the forward. It is kind of the same thing as using an added empty motion on the TKLegs to get your timing right on the button press. Hope this helps.

3049

Played Chun again last night. I still fucking hate her in S2. It is like everything that you used to do for any situation is changed now, and for the worse. Oh, they are open for a 3-4 frame, (do old BnB), oh, that doesn’t work anymore. Opponent jumping in, (do old AA - air throw or s.LK) oh my Airthrow loses, and my s.LK trades and I get no follow up. Oh they are open after a blocked -4 (does old punish / tries new punish), oh the s.LK is too slow now or my 4f moves don’t reach. Oh, they are stunned in the corner (do old max punish combo), oh that doesn’t work anymore. The s.LK is too slow to connect.

Her biggest overall problem is that her confirms suck and her normals don’t cancel into everything. Plus, you have to unlearn everything that you have learned (shoutout to Yoda), and the new stuff that you need to learn are worse in one aspect or another (too hard for no reason, do less damage/less oki/less reach). All she is now is a poke and shimmy/throw machine. That’s it.

The only thing that I do consider a buff is the VT c.MK into HKSBK. So now you can rush in and either OH to c.LK, c.LP, c.MK, HKSBK, or just straight up c.LK…but of course that is nerfed because of -5 seconds on VT. It only looks like IMHO that she is decent in VT and that’s it. I’m watching other people play Chun and it seems like they are still having success and that is great, but I think that S2 Chun just doesn’t play like how I play. Gonna try her this weekend and grind it out but if I still feel the same, I’m gonna drop her.

3050

Good observation. However, I think with the SBK BnB vs the MK legs BnB, I think people would take the advantage of a knockdown oki than a +3 damage difference. Plust, after the SBK, it puts distance so either you can follow up with wakeup options, or stay within her poking range.

3051

I agree with you are saying. It is very hard to play aggressive with Chun now but like you said, harassing people with pokes to build up the grey life then somehow find a hit to capitalize on. I do think there is something to consider with what @“MoZ. Star D.” said, it is all favorable to get the knockdown but ending in legs may not be THAT bad after all.

I think that you need to capitalize on things like confirming CH F.MP into EX legs. Walk up or dash into cr.MK into EX legs since you are safe anyways. I just feel that she need to play a bit more patient now instead of going constantly in. I still need more time to get hold of everything but so far it has been ok for me. My friend yesterday continued to moan, bitch and complain about Chun as he did in Season 1.

Chun is different and it will take time to adjust but a lot of characters are like that. So far i have accepted that st.LK is to be used for far anti-air situation mostly, kinda to hit behind them. I am using B.HK for close range anti-airs. Some times i will even neutral jump LK for a last second AA.

What bother me the most personally is that i feel the fireballs have way more recovery than they used to, how annoying it is to use a niche standing normal into SBK. The thing is that i haven’t had the chance in a real match to use that combo yet.

3052

If you can stomache it, try akuma or urien. They both have a earning curve but both confirm from further ranges out than chun does. Urien has ranged normals, akuma doesn’t. Akuma has great AA, confirms, oki, 3 frame jab, easy way to bait throws, a tick throw button and a very good fireball and some absolutely luny damage.

Both characters want to fireball zone to setup for the neutral, but akuma has the better fireball and AA. Urien gets easy bnbs off aegis though.

If that’s totally not your style then I will suggest cammy, she has the walk in and out normal footsies that chun has, but better in lieu of not having a fireball.

3053

I think s.LP just his more hit stop added to it. There’s just more of a freeze before it cancels. I got used to it though.

3054

Thank you for this! I went from not being able to do this combo at all to hitting it 50% of the time in training mode

3055

I need a fast character with somewhat longer than normal pokes. That is kind of my style. Like Rolento in A2, Sodom in A3, or T.Hawk in ST. I can’t do shotos. I’m terrible with them. My fireball game is ass. I am better with characters that tear down other people’s fireball game. What do you think about Juri? Do you think she fits this mold and is tourney worthy? I have to attend all of the Capcom Cup tournaments as part of my job, so I would like to at least have a decent shot of placing well with practice. Lemme know. I value your opinion.

3056

I posted my gripes over on Unity since I think it’s useless to post them here (kind of long though):

http://www.capcom-unity.com/street_fighter/go/thread/view/7411/30760469/chun-li-season-2-changesnerfs-as-is-will-destroy-the-character?post_num=23#550707481

I’m not not trying to be overly optimistic or pessimistic about anything. Just calling it how I see it.

-I will work with the changes, but in general players have to be more on point in dealing with the specific shit other characters are doing (i.e. testing all the angles, punishes and best way to get a v-trigger confirm from that if possible), racking up white health with pokes and activating and/or confirming into v-trigger almost as soon as you get it, so you can get it again in the round. She’ll still get about 3-4 knockdowns/mixups from it off a successful confirm, but better to get that going as quickly as possible than sitting on it. I just pretend it’s 3S geneijin now (even though it’s not nearly as rewarding lol).

-HP Kikoken is probably her best “poke” at 9f start up and leaves her + enough from mid range to force them to respect any followup pokes (or get counter hit). It just also the thing that makes people want to start jumping and her AA game has to be variable again/not as simple as it is in season 1 (which was already kind of variable, but st. LK kept it simple for the most part).

-Dealing with jump-ins is probably the biggest adjustment I have to make. I’m very jealous that some characters actually get launchers from theirs without requiring any meter. I think it would’ve been perfect if they made her v-skill a better anti-air in addition to the v-gauge building buff (mentioned that in Unity in case anyone is listening).

-HK SBK being able to be confirmed off of cr. MK in v-trigger is both kind of a buff and a nerf. Like it corner carries more and probably does more stun, but it does the same damage that MK SBK did in season 1 and it burns more time on the v-trigger.

3057

Season 3 will be a return to form my friend. Until then, enjoy underdog Chun.

3058

Me personally when I hear what you want in a character I instantly think cammy.

She has longer range on her buttons than most characters. If you used ST T hawk that means you can AA DP.
She blows up fireballs pretty well cause ex cannon drill goes through from just about anywhere making it an easy reaction. She can also divekick over fireball to get in. She’s also very fast, not vega fast, but fast. She’s basically chun without a fireball, but with a divekick and way better throw and frame trap game. Her st.lk on block leaves her in throw range and she can easily do a frame trap instead. I’ve seen cammys who’s entire game revolves around the mixup of st.lk>throw or st.lk (slight delay) cr.lk,st.lp xx cannon drill. You can use other frame traps though if that’s a bit fast of a confirm.

Cammy basically pays for all this though by having only 900 HP as opposed to chuns 950 and ryus 1000

My only other pick for you would be birdie because he has the ranged buttons and can blow up fireballs pretty well with his ex command grab jump and with his chains that go through fireballs.

He has solid AA as well. The only problems are that his v trigger cancel is kinda wack as shit and he’s slow and you want a fast character with ranged pokes… he does become faster in v trigger though so there’s always that. His v trigger lasts forever as well, but depletes upon use of specials. If you can train yourself to make use of the spedup aspect of the v trigger he might be a decent try, especially with command grabs and stuff.

Karin is also decently fast and has ranged pokes, but she suffers in the AA department. So I wouldn’t suggest her.

Vega is the same with bad AA or lse I would have said to use him. Bad AA isn’t something I like to deal with in a fighting game, and I’ll assume it’s the same for you :slight_smile:

3059

OHT You may want to give Laura a shot.
My Chun used to dominate online pretty ridiculously. Winning % is down at least 25-30% no joke.
Laura was my Alt and I was always competitive but won around 50% of my matches with her.
She has some great buffs and her mixups are deadlier now in S2. I’m winning without effort.

She’s fast, controls space, 3 solid anti-airs, deadly crush counters and tons of mixups.

I wouldn’t look past Juri either though. I need to reinvest time with her.

3060

Yeah I forgot to mention not looking past juri. I was going to say but forgot to say it to play juri for a month or 2 and if it isn’t clicking to try the characters I suggested.

Not going to say not to try juri if that is who one wants to play. I’ve heard mixed reviews on her so I don’t know. She goes through fireball easily though.