Chun-Li general discussion (SFxT)

i literally just finished doing this one after trying it for about an hour, even trying to use gems to reduce my meter expenditure to enable extra EX fireballs to enable walking forwards and reduce pushback.

easiest way of doing it, which is even easier than doing it the proper way is to do (in corner) J.H , Cr.L xxEX fireball , cr. L cr.L cr.M xx EX fireball , super.

the meter recharges just in time to get the 2 ex fireballs off and also have 2 bars for the super. after doing it this way i got it on about my 3rd try, compared to the 100 or so trying to do it the proper way.

im on the line about picking up chun in this game… she seems like she might be better this time around as the games mechaincs seem to reward her more than they hinder her. (pokes being better, lack of vortexs to f her over etc) but im still not sure after reading about her here… is her AA that bad? the games jump ins are on the whole are faster, but theres no focus to fuck her over either which might make her cr.hk better as a poke ( i abused the HELL out of that move on sf4)

then theres also the fast that rufus is eve better in this game and rufus almost single handedly made me drop her in super (ibuki handles him sooo much better in sf4)

anywho, just wondering your guys opinions… i’d like honesty not just rosy cheeked sentiments, though rosy sentiments will be listened to of course :slight_smile:

later fellowship.

-dime

As Rayartz mentioned, C. :hk: sucks here compared to SF4, it’s not anti-airey anymore.

In my opinion, she’s definitely a better character in this game. They kinda removed all her situational AA’s from SFIV, but buffed her st.mk to make it a little more conventional. Also, now that she’s a motion character, it’s a lot easier to zone people out with Kikokens and st.mk. Her only flaw in her anti-air game is when people are jumping in very close to her and go for crossups. Unless you neutral jump hk on reaction, you will be forced to block the crossup as cl.st.mk does not stop them from going over you anymore and EX SBK is pretty bad in this game. Other than that, If you have good reactions to people jumping in, anti-airing shouldn’t be a problem with her.

As for Rufus, it’s definitely still a bad matchup for Chun (lol), so there’s no escaping it. In revenge though, I think she gives a very hard time to more than 50% of the cast and especially Tekken characters that struggles to get in as now, she can actually zone.

Havent fully read the topic, but anybody will any OS technology with her?

I thought it would be too sad to miss out on some potential Legs/Hazanshu OSes, but I cant figure out the timing to catch rolls or properly set it up.

I also tried some jumpin j.HP j.HP/df.HK OSes, ala AE style, but the grounded command becomes a launcher while holding downback.

At least her throw, dash once, jump setup is still fine, just need to figure out a good OS for it which I just cant find for this system. -_-

Hey Dime! Actually wish you would pick up Chun becaues it was your compendium guide and OHT that got me going with her in SF4 XD
seriously though, She’s got some really nice rush down that’ll make you feel like a beast when doing it. However with the tech rolls your moment in gone in a flash.
I’m still using D/F HK in these scenarios for reason mentioned in the match up thread I do believe.

Some say she’s a good zoner, I dont think she is. Sure you can fireball war with a Shoto but Guile and Sim beat you out clean.People who play SF4 know what they need to do to her – rush her down and pin her down. Competant players using Tekken characters (which all have ways to get around fireballs – several Tekken cast members have mist step, special step or specials to get around fireballs) So zoning a Tekken character is actually pretty scary. Especailly with most of them having some seriously F’D up movesets,

“Block low, Block High, Block High, OHH shit I was supposed to block that low even known it looked like an over head!” or my favorite Heihachi punching my Knee can’t be blocked low cuz it is an overhead? Mind fuck anyone?

Use the SF4 mindset of not throwing a Kikouken unless 3/4 or full screen away.
As you know her dash is amazing, I abuse the hell out of it when I’m actualy focused on playing and not playing like zombie cuz I’ve been playing too long.
Currently not finding many good options to score a Super Art. With the ability to lock her down and having Chun’s Super stocked in SF4 as you are well aware was a lethal weapon. The punishing game is just not here – I don’t think that is necessarily a Chun specific thing though but have that abilitiy to punish is what made her dangerous in SF4.

Going back to overheads. A good tool in SF4 is Cr.Lp, Cl. HK xx Lk Hsu. Not so much anymore. without LK HSU being considered an overhead (more mind fuck)
this move loses its substance and for some reason Cl.Hk whiffs on opponents wake up if they crouch – leaving you to get rocked.

after playing SSF4 yesterday I quickly remembered how amazing Cr. Mk and how easy it was to just poke it out there and cancel a HSU potentially giving you a Super setup. Cr.Mk is worthless in this game unless used in a juggle state. Meaty Cr. Mk doesn’t seem to exist on opponents wake up reversals.

Someone above mentioned Rufus – He’s broken, Spam dive kicks on anyone without a solid neutral ground reversal or wake up option and you’ve won.
On a good Rufus player; likely someone who used him in SF4, St. Lp or St. Hp are your best Anti Air options. D/F LK does not come out fast enough and St. Mk doesn’t have the same god-like hit box as SSF4.

Chun can be out poked by several cast members making zoning more difficult. Hugo his Cr.LP can catch her backdash, Geif(yeah isn’t that f’d up? his spinning punches force stand up if you try Cr. Hk) Rolento, Hwaorang, Half the Tekken cast can just counter hit her regardless of how freaking slow the move (Heihachi)
As it stands she has more bad match ups here than SSF4AE

Even Haneyama a player I’ve been following is using her completely differently as he’s ranked up because he’s fighting people that know how to handle her. She needs a few tweaks. A more damaing Super Art due to her limited options to land it without having the opponent juggle bounce on it causnig only half the hits to actually connect or Faster Startup (Julia’s is 2 frame why is Chun’s 6 frame?). Hit boxes tweeked. She’s got no realiable reversal so restoring hit boxes like Cr. HK and Cr. Mp, St. MK as Anti Airs would benefit her greatly. Make LK HSU an overhead again. Restore Cr. MK to its former glory and for the love of god we’ve gotta be able to combo off of LLegs - baring situational Desk showmen ship; Cr. Hp xx LLegs and linking Cr. Lk or Cr.Mk xx EXLegs was solid.
Or better why can’t we use LLegs and Tack on EXLLegs to the end? Why can’t we cancel LLegs into Super?

Why? Because Capcom is scared to make her good. Chun in SSF4 would kick the crap out of SF X TK’s Chun – period.

How does she loses fireball wars against Guile? He has to charge while you can chuck your Kikokens at will… and now, you can actually punish his Sonic Booms on reaction with your Super. Unlike in SFIV, Guile has to come to you and take risks once Chun has the lead and decides to zone or lame it out.

Also, not every Tekken characters have competent ways to get around fireballs. For instance, King, Julia, Bob and Nina all have special steps or special moves that enables them to go through fireballs, but if they do it at 3/4th to mid screen distance on reaction to your Kikoken, they can easily get punished in their recovery by whatever poke you decide to throw out. Another example is Asuka who has absolutely no ways around fireballs unless she has EX meter (and then again, she can only punish fireballs at close range). The only Tekken characters I had trouble zoning are Law, Hwoarang, Jin and Kazuya and that’s because they all have fast ways to get close, but that doesn’t mean I stop throwing fireballs entirely because unless they are at the sweetspot or they predict me, they cannot punish me for throwing them (And even if they could punish me everytime, I could just stop and play the poking game or try to rush them down).

I’m not saying she’s the best zoner in the game, but it’s definitely a playstyle you can consider when you’re facing a character that can outpoke you midscreen or is too scary for you to pressure / rushdown (i.e Gief). They made her way more versatile in this game in the sens that she can zone, poke/play footsies or rushdown with LLegs, St. jabs, and m.k Hazanshu depending on who she faces.

IMO it should get a damage buff or alteration where it is 90% frontloaded damage. Its difficult to balance though as she has several good ways of landing it ‘for a few hits’…but its a waste of meter at that point. If they made those early hits worth more, or gave her a fei long style ‘2 supers in 1’ where on juggle it acts one way and on straight connect it does an auto-combo type thing.

  • :bluu:

Pick up Chun man. She’s hella good in this game. She retained virtually everything from SF4 and just got more on top of that.
The biggest adjustment is AAs. That will take a little time to figure out, but nj.HK still stuffs just about anything that you can predict. On reaction, her AAs require precise spacing. Even more so than SF4. Simply switching between st.MK/st.HP and cr.MP/cr.MK won’t cut it any more (full disclosure - this part has been my biggest hurdle).
And you hit the nail on the head - this game’s mechanics reward her big time. If you have decent reactions and spacing, you will get your hit in…and when you do, the combo system allows you to make it count. She’s also far more flexible in this game, because she’s no longer a slave to charge storing for kikoken, super, etc. If anyone does anything, anywhere on the screen, super will punish. Period. Once Chun has 2 meters, opponents have to respect that super. No whiffing random stuff, no projectiles, no sloppy block strings, etc.
Just make sure her partner can do good damage off tag-ins. That’s about it imo.

thanks for the advice guys! i appreciate it. after reading all of your posts ive decided to keep chun on the backburner. after playing her and especially after hearing what rayartz had to say (plus the fact that one of the top players out here is a very good sf4 rufus main) i just dont think i can go down the chun road again, i think that just like sf4 it will be a frustrating event for me to use her in this game, certain things that you guys said are things that made me eventually dislike her in sf4… like her st.mp getting jumped over. that used to really boil my balls. ibuki doesnt have a problem of that fashion and she also has braindead easy AA’s that just fuck stuff up. i was wanting chun to compliment my ibuki basically playing chun as battery and ibuki being user. but, right after i made that post inhere i took rog for a spin and hes looking like hes got all the poking stuff i want without the low hp and limitations that chun has. plus he plays rufus well and thats a BEAUTIFUL thing in this game.

im very sorry if i wasted any of your guys time. long live the chun army and i wish you guys nothing but success in your enduring efforts to play chun!

-dime

Rayartz and the others, I think it’s really too early to say. Give it more time. So many other things to figure out eventually. For bad matchups, that’s what tag partners are for.

For some reason when people here a character is charged based they think they can’t throw projectiles on par with motion based character.
Fact you can only throw one projectile and have it displayed on screen at a time unless in Guiles case of EX.
A strong Guile player will always make you come to them and they won’t mind burning EX meter for Sonic Booms to proove their point.
So what if they have to neutral jump over a Kikouken – You do know they are merely hiding their charge while in the air right?

Any rate I’m not saying she’s can’t use her Kikouken effectively. I just know the mindset of people I play regularly and the Guile I play couldn’t give a shit about her motion based Kikoukens.

Lastly for the several that mention HSU – you can’t live and die by the HSU. If half your offense is based of landing HSUs, what do you do when your opponent can block it? Its not a fast move and Chun’s had it for what feels like forever. Good players know Cl. HK cancels into HSU, Good players know seeing a St. Mp is likely followed by HSU. Any move that can get beat out by simply hitting Cr. Lp is not a go to move. We still have to use HSU sparringly to be effective. now if the fella your playing can’t block it – abuse the hell out of it!

more importantly, because I refuse to give up on Chun:

Semi descent block string – Cr. Lp, Cr.Lp, Cr. Lp, St. Mp (All are Links – St. Mp is fishing for counter hit, puts you just inside St. Hk range and outside some of the casts pokes) No need for SF4 style Kikouken at the end as it causes zero push back.
Do this a few times and then try chaining Cr. Hk off the St. Mp.

Decent pressure tactic Cr. Lp, Cr. Lp, Cr. Hp xx LLegs (don’t extend LLegs the final reps could be out of range) or Mk HSU for mix up opportunities (loses out to mashers)

As it is, we’re our own enemies here cause we know (and lament) her cons. This one’s a little late, but given the age of the game… mention Chun-Li and SFxT in the same breath, the rest of the world still has something like this in mind. :lol:

Shhhhh.

Salt :rofl:

But yeah… a lot of people around me complains about Chun being really good and hard to deal with while on the Chun forums, everyone laments about her cons like she shouldn’t have them in the first place. If she didn’t have some cons, she would just be broken as she’s already a really good character in my opinion. People needs to focus more on her pros than her cons, so that way they can see how good she is in this game.

I think Chun is really, really good. The biggest problem I see as far as evaluating her is the SF4 comparison. I actually don’t think she was very good in SF4. I know tournament performance isn’t the only barometer, but it says something to me that she never was a top 5 tourney character in any of the versions of SF4. Once people learned links and figured out the damage on characters like Ryu, Viper, etc, Chun’s limitations became really clear. She was a footsie character in a game based on damage, vortexes and wake up dominance.

On the other hand, all of the US is completely FREE to Wong’s Chun, and he hasn’t even CADC’d in a tourney yet.

Some key reasons, SFxT’s game engine makes Chun much better.

-Alpha Counters: you guys complain about anti airs, but a combination of st.MK, st.FP, backdash and her alpha counter make this much easier to deal with than in past games.

-Team Synergy: Chun is good in both positions. Her st.MP XX Legs is the most brain dead dominant thing in Chun history next to 3s st.FP and 3s cr.MKxxSuper. Not only does this attack do good chip, but you get a safe tag and if you hit you get a big combo. Need bar? Jump back Fierce. And of course having great pokes makes it that much easier to ABC out without having to use meter at all.

-Matchups: Right now, this is a grapple/shoto dominant game. She owns both. Of all the top tier characters right now, Rufus is the only one that seems like a flat out terrible matchup for Chun. That’s fine, because he seems to dominate everyone except for Ryu, who Chun is just FINE with. In fact, in the early going, just her matchup with Ryu/Ken/Hugo alone is enough to have her on the team.

-Backdash: Self explanatory!

-New inputs for legs and super. Cannot stress this enough. SF4 Chuns need to really sit back and think of all the possibilities with the new inputs. Walking forward into super has to count for something.

-One last note on Lightning Legs: Because it links, even if you DON’T links, there is enough frame advantage to just keep doing it from up close. To quote LI Joe,“Oh wait, so now I just gotta take this bitch’s legs in my face?” YUP. And again, when he had about 10% life up close and no meter. “I’m dead now, aren’t I?” YUP. Insane chip up close. Legs after legs and he just had to take it.

Very few characters in this game have anything like that. If she had a true high low game or invincible reversal, she’d just be broken.

Since the game is so new, we could all be wrong about anything, but her place on the Japanese tier lists, Justin Wong’s complete dominance(keep in mind, he has an Ogre and a Cammy and still considers Rufus/Chun his A squad), Chun’s good changes and the different battle system should at least make everyone pause before they react.

I think the Alpha Counters and Backdashes will show up a lot more as the game progresses. Right now people are a little starry eyed over using meter for exchanges, supers and team supers, but with a character like Chun, the alpha counter is huge. Sending a Hugo or Zangief back across the screen and making them fight aaallll the way back in is more than worth one bar, which Chun builds quickly anyway.

I can’t find many good uses for her EX Legs in this game. They look rather useless to me, for solo combos at least.
The only thing you can link after is a HP.
Mid screen the move’s very inconsistent, most of the time you don’t get all the hits, it doesn’t move forward like in SF4 so you can’t use if for punishes, even in the corner the best thing I’ve found is cl.HP xx legs (1 hit) or if you’re willing to spend 3 bars: cl.HP xx super.

I think they’re probably good only for tag combos…but that’s 2 bars

That is where the meter managment comes into play. I’m constantly asking myself – Is this the best option here?
Definately finding similiar issues with LLegs. I believe they wanted to shift focus away from her Ex LLegs and focus on her nonEx Legs
I have several things to test out that you may have actually already tried yourself. I think a few of her issues with her LLegs is because it is motion based. Blanka’s electricty is going to be rapid tap. So I’m confused on Capcom’s logic to shift Chun’s rapid tap to command.
at anyrate I’ll post all of my tests if I find they may prove useful in battle.
I actually really need to find sometime to play people! LOL been doing a lot of lab stuff because I have yet again switched my team up!

When does a situation like this happen? Because I was trying it in training mode and I could jump out of nearly all of LL pressure, and cr.LP through most of it.

On block, its pretty fucking safe. I’m not sure on the exact frames if you do the extended hcf+K~K. The guide states that hcf+MK is +1 on block. So if Chun times her st.LP or cr.LP it’ll beat the opponents jab attempt. Cause its pretty fucking safe and you jump away, big whoop, Chun gets to start her zoning game. If you try to jump-in on Chun, Chun has enough time do her normal AA reactions. If you sit there and wait, Chun just gets to do it again. This isn’t even taking into account if you actually get hit with legs, which is even more damage and frame advantage(possible combo followups, if Chun bothers).

Quick tip:
Don’t try and punish whiffed Dps or Dp Esque reversal on landing with Chun’s Super Art
She moves too far to fast and even known Sagat was two feet off the ground she still passes through him.

Hosenka… I really miss you. When Blanka comes out the first thing I’m going to do is test punishing his Blanka Ball, if I can’t do that with Chun’s SA I’ll officially quit this game.