It’s not unreliable; it just takes practice and timing.
I think doing it with cl.hp is easy, doing it with cl.hk is a bit more diffcult but still not really difficult at all.
I agree. I can do cl.hp > ex sbk all day but every once-and-awhile I’ll get a roundhouse sbk trying to do cl.hk.
Yeah I just need to practice the timing then. Still, seems about as useful as b.mk, mk, fadc, stomps. =P
The idea of doing st.rh to EX SBK is key in doing Chun’s most damaging combo.
The way I get this to work every time:
I hesitate slightly as I’m bringing my stick to the up input of EX Spinning Bird Kick and tap my close roundhouse and finish Spinning bird kick as I normally would. The move is very reliable! Try slowing your self down a little. I find that nearly every single time I’m having trouble pulling off a move it is because I’m trying to do it too fast.
A close EX Spinning Bird Kick does 170 damage and a close roundhouse to Spinning Bird Kick does a massive 270 damage! It is definitely something you want in your bag of moves! To put things in a little perspective a Super does 340 damage and an Ultra does 510 damage. Close roundhouse to EX Spinning Bird Kick is a pretty devastating move for how little it costs you.
I felt like writing an explanation on technical crouches (low profile moves/put you close to the ground), Hazan Shuu, and jumping.
You know that old trick where Chun will do a jump and right as she’s landing, perform a hsu so it looks like she never touched the ground before going into hsu?
Here’s a brief explanation on jump mechanics from the master guide (thread):
If you land from an empty jump, you can perform any action as soon as you land with no delay. The exceptions are jump, dash, backdash – you’ll get 2 frames of lag before you can perform any of these options (during which you can be tripped or thrown).
If you perform a jump attack, you’ll have 2 frames where you can’t block, but you can throw tech. This is called losing trip guard. Moves like Chun’s cr. mk will only hit people who have touched the ground and are only unblockable if someone had performed an aerial attack before landing.
Moves like Chun’s jab can hit people out of an empty jump, causing a reset. Chun’s cr. mp/cr. hk won’t hit someone out of an empty jump, but can hit someone out of the air if they did an attack.
A jump takes 4 frames to start (3 for Dhalsim, 6 for Zangief), and jump startup is throw invincible. (This is why her instant overheads are excellent crouch tech/throw tech counters) Jump startup isn’t strike invincible, so cr. mk/cr. mp/cr.hk will hit jump start-up, but will not hit as soon as the opponent is airborne. If an opponent is hit before they leave the ground, they stay on the ground – if an opponent is hit after leaving the ground, they get reset.
Hazanshuu is airborne on frame 2, so she’s technically on the ground for 1 frame. It doesn’t look like she touches the ground but she can be thrown during that 1 frame window. She will not be hit by technical crouches like cr. mk when she lands since the hitboxes are so close to the ground and she’s floating.
She won’t be hit upon landing by cr. mp/cr. hk upon landing either, but her hsu will be counter-hit by them, since they’re capable of hitting air-borne opponents if they do an attack. The 1 frame before she goes air-borne can also be counterhit but cr. mp/cr. hk, but not cr. mk; her hurtbox functions the way it looks except for that 1 frame where she can be grabbed.
Dime’s right: An empty jump EX Hasanshu is a powerful tool against a Dhalsim who wants you to fall on top of his st. hp. He has no chance of hitting you with it.
Another good thing about being off the ground so quickly is that it’s a damaging counter against throw/command throw set-ups like Abel’s f+mk dash forward thing. If he’s trying to hit you out of a predicted jump, he’ll hit you before you leave the ground and now you’re locked in a potentially damaging situation. If you backdash, it’s safish even if you’re hit because you’ll just be reset and have some options, like more backdash. The same thing will happen if you’re doing a hsu reversal, you either beat the throw or you’re reset by a normal (though you do take counter-hit damage). Low-med risk/high reward defense.
Something to watch out for if you’re trying to anti-air shotos/Sagat/Viper/Gief(!!!) with technical crouches is an empty jump into uppercut/ground burning kick. Since none of your technical crouches will hit them out of an empty jump, a perfectly timed special after landing will beat you. I say perfectly timed because if they’re early, they do an attack before it buffers into a special and lose trip guard, and if they’re late they’re doing dp motions while they fall on top of a meaty attack. Basically if it happens to you, it wasn’t an accident/you’re dead(Gief!!!).
Another thing to note is deep jumpins that hit near the ground like Chun’s HK/HP and Ken’s HP and Sagat’s elbow. The trick is to aim for Chun’s head, since that’s the highest part of her body… cr. mk/cr. mp both space her head differently which makes her harder to hit if you switch them up. St. mk/st. hp and ex sbk are as good as ever especially if they’re trained to hit you deep. Keep them mixed up. I’ve found that Gief and Honda are prone to mix up jump attack timing.
Random hsu is something like a fast jump-in attack. Lots of people (i.e., I) can focus it on reaction, so it’s still unsafe unless you have 2 bars. If the opponent is crouching, you lose 1 frame of advantage. Lk and hk becomes + 3 and mk becomes +4. Whether or not they’re crouching is something you definitely have time to confirm for hk, and it’s good to know that you can always combo ex legs from mk on hit.
</Chun-Li brain dump>
Just for reference:
counter hits:
do 125% damage
light attacks add 1 more frame of hitstun
medium and hard attacks add 3
jumping light and hard attacks add 2
jumping medium attacks add 1
special moves add 3
Note: If you do a jump attack, after landing I think you have to wait 4 frames before you can attack again, but I heard you might only have to wait 2, just like blocking. I dunno how important something like that would be, anyway.
so today I found out you can do Cr. FP xx FP fireball xx super
Yes, related to the discussion made a few posts above, you can j.fpx2 -> cl.st.fierce->mp kikouken xx super, if you want more hit confirm time, and you can use the string without the super, it should be safe, I think. Although if you end it with Fp kikouken it’s not safe against all moves, that’s for sure.
There was a variation of the combo, seen some time ago from MM or Skatan’s videos, that I think had jabs, strong xx kikouken. But since it does more hits it’s probably better to use the close standing fierce one if you intend to include super in it (for damage scaling).
Anyone know how to walk forward or dash forward and then do Chun Lee’s Ultra? Nuki owns people with that tactic.
:l::r::r::l::r::3k:
sweet jesus use the search function
Thx Jinkai
And James, chill out, its just a post. Not like I made a thread.
So I just found this out. If you are charging :l: and someone jumps over you, you STILL HAVE CHARGE. If you hold :l: for a half second after they cross over you, that counts as a :r: for your previous charge. So in theory, we can Ultra, Super, Kikoken cross ups.
So in other words, you are Chun and charging :l: . Opponent jumps over you and you can hold :l: for a split second longer then:
:r::l: + :3k: - Ultra
:r::l: + :hk: - Super
:hp: - Kikoken
Dont know how it helps, but I tried it in training mode and the timing isnt too strict, certainly able to musce memory it if this is applicable
so thats how they do that auto flip with bison…
hmmm… kikoken might help versus crossup attempts… then we can add on ex legs to boot and ultra if they tried to crossup in the corner.
hmmm… i just had a novel idea…
how about using fp kikoken to trade versus regular AA’s??? ala lp srk ultra… might be useful if op is near the corner or we may be able to juggle with LL or something else… HMMmmm…
-dime
Hey.
I found this gem in the video thread:
[media=youtube]IZw9jrwYdQY[/media]
I feel that this tactic might be overlooked…I know that I had never seen it before this video.
I would like to know how many of you use this against Shotos/boxer/viper.
I don’t have too much trouble with shotos, but boxer gives me fits and this is going to make that match a LOT easier for me.
Cliffs: low forward and low strong lower her hitbox enough that jumpins from shotos often whiff, boxer’s dash punch will whiff (low forward only), and same for viper’s flame kick.
CH MK Hazanshu, Ultra - it’s a combo
its one of the basic facets of chun play. cr.mk can make a TON of shit wiff, i use it when fuertes get obvious with crossup splash BS, against the scond move against bisons devils reverse and against bisons that like to crossup with mk (all good bisons)
there a re a helluva lot more uses but those are the ones that i personally use it in.
-dime
Against Bison’s Devil’s Reverse, I use sweep. It really makes Fuerte’s splash whiff? Does it make his tortilla throw whiff? I use it against Ryu all the time. Cr. Mk xx hk legs does 120 and 222 damage if you add cr. jab > fierce to it. Works great against Guile… d/b > Guile. It doesn’t work nearly as well against Ken cuz walking toward him is more risky and his crossup and jumpins are better. I’ve done it to a Chun who played Balrog, but no other Balrogs funnily enough. It’s good on Viper’s wakeup and goes under her air burning kicks (but I’ve only done that to a Viper who played Chun, :]) I have to check if it works on her jump RH cuz this one Viper kicked my ass a bunch and I just couldn’t stop her.
I’ll make parts 2, 3, …n, someday to show the other stuff she can dodge.