Just looking for input on this in general, and for each character specifically.
As stated I’d like to keep discussion for each character in the separate threads I am making in their respective sub forums, and input on the idea in general in the above thread.
Also as stated, despite discussion in this thread being open to anyone it would help me separate the wheat from the chaff if each forum could appoint someone who knows what the hell they are talking about to give me the numbers to plug into my spread sheet.
My garbage numbers for Rose:
U1
Endurance - 2.5
Reversal ---- 2
AA ------------ 3
Zoning ------- 3.5
Rush --------- 2.5
Mix up -------- 2.5
Dmg pot ----- 3
Viability ------- 1
U2
Endurance - 2.5
Reversal ---- 2
AA ------------ 3
Zoning ------- 3.5
Rush --------- 2.5
Mix up -------- 2.5
Dmg pot ----- 3
Viability ------- 1
Other than the Endurance these are little more than place holder numbers. Input greatly appreciated.
The end result of all of this will be a spreadsheet with pull down menus to compare up to three characters like so:
Endurance - 2.5
Reversal ---- 1( 1.5) zero reversal without ex, crappy ( not really a reversal) with ex
AA ------------ 4 ( if it’s not a yun/yang dive kick, she can aa it.)
Zoning ------- 4.5 mistress of the art
Rush --------- 2.5 some good frame trap
Mix up -------- 3.5 good frame, trap, cross up, u2, good throw,… too bad it’s zero damage if it’s successful
Dmg pot ----- 0.5 less damage of all the character in the game.
Viability ------- 2 ( at least 1 person us her at international level ( luffy) )
U1
Endurance - 2.5
Reversal ---- 2.5 (She at least has a reversal, even if it isn’t good. And EX Soul Throw reversals non-meaty jumpins)
AA ------------ 4 (This could be 5 if U1 wasn’t as ass as it is)
Zoning ------- 4.5 (^^^^^)
Rush --------- 2.5 (This is a turtle ultra)
Mix up -------- 2.5
Dmg pot ----- 2.5 (She has some fancy combos in the corner, but otherwise no. An extra .5 for how damaging the ultra is.)
Viability ------- 2
U2
Endurance - 2.5
Reversal ---- 2.5
AA ------------ 3.5
Zoning ------- 4
Rush --------- 3 (Good to use in the corner.)
Mix up -------- 3 (^^^)
Dmg pot ----- 2 (Very unstable ultra. You’re lucky if you can get 2 throws in.)
Viability ------- 2
I assume zoning goes along with poking, because Rose’s normals have more reach than a large majority of the cast.
U1
Edurance-2.5
Reversal- 2.5
AA--------- 5 (I say that because the has a nice amount of AA’s even though U1 is crap atm.)
Zoning--------- 4.5
Rush down---------- 2 (She can’t do much and she can’t use the ultra as a boo boo fix…)
Mix up-----2
Dmg pot-----1.5-2
Viability-----1.5-2
U1
Endurance-2.5
Reversal-------3 (She can use U2 as a reversal at a distance, and when she has meter she is decent)
AA--------5 (She can use U2 as an AA and she does well with ex meter.)
Zoning------4.5 (For this ultra she can use u2 as an AA and get some damage in)
Rush------ 3.5 (Good to use in the corner,Mid screen, and to keep your opponent on edge if they have the balls to poke you out of it.)
Mix up-----3 (I want to say 3.5 but this ultra is too unstable but it does give her some good mix up opportunites.)
Dmg pot-----2.5 (It increases her viable damage by a small amount and if used correctly does you good.)
Viability-------2.5
She’d be more viable if she got help in the damage, and reversal departments.
U1
Endurance - 3
Reversal ---- 2
AA ------------ 4
Zoning ------- 4
Rush --------- 2
Mix up -------- 1
Dmg pot ----- 2
Viability ------- 3
U2
Endurance - 3
Reversal ---- 1
AA ------------ 4
Zoning ------- 4
Rush --------- 3
Mix up -------- 2
Dmg pot ----- 1
Viability ------- 3
Rose scores high for zoning (with normals) and for AA due to c.hp
Scores low in mixups, rushdown and damage. Her damage comes from simple throw-setups.
U1
Endurance - 2.5 (Average endurance, below average stun - 1000/950)
Reversal ---- 2 (U1 has decent invincibility but is incredibly risky and can be safe-jumped and meatied)
AA ------------ 3.5 (Rose has fairly consistent AA without U1; it just provides a more damaging but riskier option)
Zoning ------- 4 (U1 bolsters Rose’s already strong anti-fireball game)
Rush --------- 2
Mix up -------- 2.5
Dmg pot ----- 2.5 (U1 does fantastic damage but it’s difficult to land consistently)
Viability ------- 2
U2
Endurance - 2.5
Reversal ---- 1.5 (EX Spiral not only can be meatied and safe-jumped, but it can be flat-out stuffed by a lot of normals)
AA ------------ 3.5 (She has a variety of solid options but none are “catch-all”)
Zoning ------- 3.5 (Great anti-fireball game, mediocre fireball game)
Rush --------- 2.5 (U2 makes her offense safer)
Mix up -------- 3 (U2 makes Rose’s frame-trap game slightly more threatening, allows some crossup oppurtunities, and can be used to bait with LVL3 FA)
Dmg pot ----- 2
Viability ------- 2
What do you guys mean by giving her a viability of 1 / 1.5 or am I missing something here. It’s not like she’s the worst character in the game. Shouldn’t 1 be reserved for a character that has an uphill battle against almost all the other toons (5 for vanilla Sagat/Akuma.)?
This is just coming from a new Rose scrub but I think some of you are maybe underestimating her a bit?
The competitive viability of a character doesn’t depend on how she does in her matchups overall as much it depends on how she stacks up against the upper tier and other characters that commonly see tournament play. In other words, viability depends on the metagame. Rose can definitely hold her own in footsies and fireball wars but her she’s always had a tough time getting out of pressure or applying damaging mixups of her own. The fact of the matter is, Rose simply won’t go far in a ruthless 2-match, double elimination tournament setting where the playing field is dominated by high-damaging rushdown characters like the twins, Fei, Seth, Viper, Akuma and etc.
