Characters that can compete vs God tier

max already covered gambit and I just did marrow.

sonson - she’s an odd ball character. She has an instant overehad which is awesome for mixups. These are pretty hard to block on reaction if not impossible. Her j.rh breaks sentinels super armor and its an instant overhead. Her shoryuken is safe once she hits the ground. The only vulnerable spot is as she’s descending. she can also do c.fp before it comes out SJC. This makes her guilty gear esqe in a sense. She can do stuff like c.lk+tron, c.mp, c.fp SJC before it comes out and its basically a SJC on block. There are only 2 characters like this in the game, doom is 2nd one. 2 types of AD’s fwd\bck. Pretty good damage output on hit for her as well. Off the wall kick has the priority of a tag, monkeys spread further and further so they’re a pretty good projectile and her AA assost always hits for 3 hits. It gives you hella block stun and time for mixups. If sonson keeps putting the pressure on someone, they’ll eventually push block her. Well, if you do that, sonson can time a wall run @ the exact same time as the push block making her wall run come out extremely quick. Once she’s on the wall she can do the dive kick, layer helper or shoot monkey’s for zone.

bison - definitely underused. his c.fp is pretty good. Teleport is releavant to the point character so it can be hard to run away from him depending on team chemistry. He has a flight mode thats pretty useful but to my knowledge I don’t think he has a fast fly combo solo. His damage output is pretty retarded. His air super does so much life and since his c.fp has amazing priority it can be very hard to jump in on him. He also has a very good re-pressure strings. C.mp recovers in the + for him. His puff balls can be used for anti push block and so can his flip kick. You can use his teleport like a slow strider one and combine it with assists like tron to get some mixups going. IMO, this character is still isn’t mastered from what I’ve seen online and video. If there’s a bison master out there, I haven’t seen him yet.

omega red - broke mother fucker. omega ron is by far one of the better low tier duo’s in the game. Double crossups, amazing priority, great combo’s and the ender always allows him to get life back. His AD is one of a kind as well. He’s able to block out of it even though there’s no active threat on the screen. His tentacle special is all red on the box. Meaning that you can’t trade with it. Its either you block it or dodge it or another special prevents it from hitting properly. This guy is baroke. He’s not fucking around because his mixups are fucking retarded.

chun - basically wins the game off the opener if she lands a hit. chun ron isn’t playing nice. 1 frame instant overheads, a 2 hit instant overhead, buku resets, multiple ways to land the infinite EVEN CH infinite if you’re any good. The thing about chun is that if you do a few reps of the infinite, you have the opportunity to go for a random unblockable with j.d.rh. This move is 1 frame and if the normals comes out during marvel frame cycle skip, it becomes unblockable. She can jump 6 times in the air building fucking hella bar. Her j.d.rh also has amazing priority when you try to approach her from below. If chun places that normal right, no top 4 can beat it. IM and possibly cyke might have a counter but this move has amazing priority. Shes 1 hit kill with great mixups and if you think jumping out of her mixups will help, she also has the ability to throw+tron.
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gambit snip** max were you aware of the gambit upcard glitch+tron mixups? C.lk+tron, c.mk, this gives you fake unfly, fwd+2p and w\o going to neutral, roll to bck+lp\fp, this will slightly pop gambit into the air and he can do falling attacks for a mixup. Its one of the only mixup tricks he has unfortunately.

maybe more later.

here’s my 2 cents on why these characters can win:

There’s no point of contesting that these characters can swing with the God tier toe to toe at all times, because they DON’T have all the same tricks that Gods do from all sorts of common situations.

However if you can master their options off of as many situations that come up against high-level play as possible, and weather the storm long enough to spot and/or create these situations, then any of these characters that Shoultz had listed has the option to either kill you outright, or hurt you and keep position on you for great mixups.

There’s also a lot of common scenarios that demand a certain response from other God tiers, where low/mid/underused characters have a completely different approach that leads to a ‘gameplay mixup’ (i.e. someone springs somethign on you you’ve never seen from a strategy standpoint). For example, if Storm runs away to the top of screen, Sim can do it right back. Or if Sent tries to chip Wolverine with 1 bar with Spit, Rocket, HSF, Sent is in for a suprise-- spd. up Wolvie goes low all day free versus that garbage and versus 99% of things in the game. All of these characters can punish gods for things they do all day v. other gods which is what makes strong low tier so dangerous.

Interesting stuff. Thank you.

I agree, Charlie with a good assist is NASTY.

Bison is definately one unique ass character that hasn’t got a whole lot of attention. Like you said he has teleport, he has flight (although the only use I have found in flight is fishing for random f.lk’s to go into psycho crusher, which is best used when they dont have an aa, which means you have basically already won hehe), but he also has the charge head stomp which is okay to use sometimes moving around (also has its uses when layered with assists), and the scissor kick move even helps in some situations.

He has a full screen guardbreak which is kind of strict on timing but is very useful. I never tested it to see if they took the hit what would happen, but reguardless he would be safe. fp fireball cancelled to the hcb+pp ball super.

About fp priority, c.fp definately has crazy priority for its range. The same thing goes for sj.fp, its range is a little depressing but hits priority is crazy (i’ve used it to hit sentinel’s feet sometimes).

If you have an anti-air with bison, that knocks them away off the screen (capcom, cammy, cable, im sure there are some more too). I usually like to use fp blow up ball, followed by I believe the fp fireball. That makes sure they block falling down and does enough chip to annoy people that aren’t patient. Also I think it gives the opponent enough time to call their assist out after the fp fireball hits, and then the ball explodes and snuffs assists (like sent-drones). It attempts to train your opponent to not just fall straight down after an anti air, so they maybe use their air dash to get closer to you, which lets you attempt some pressure strings or mixups.

Bison has a air super which is always a plus because he can get out of the game quickly if he is low on health without touching the ground.

And everybody knows about his explosion ball assist. I haven’t found a multitude of good uses for it yet, but I play bison/cammy/hulk, and if i did corner an opponent with hulk on point with bison’s assist, i could get a pretty good meter dependent trap going on. I could call bison and do jumping lk’s with hulk (which chips btw :rofl:), now if they pushblocked i would have to gamma charge, and then do the hcf+kk super. if they didn’t i would just continue to do j.lk’s and call out bison’s assist. the hulk super gave me some + frames I believe because I could normally make the opponent block some more either sj.lk’s or j.lk’s which gave me enough time to call out bison again. point is, his explosion ball is a very unique assist which could be put to good use if somebody ever dedicated a lot of time into bison oriented squads.

I might mess around with him some more and see what I can come up with

edit; one other thing i forgot was that his airthrow is fairly good. when i ran bison/cammy/hulk, i would airthrow into hulk’s assist, into air psycho crusher whenver i could. if you airthrow correctly, you can get a bounce animation for bison, and he is still able to air super to dhc blah blah blah.

good stuff max. You sound like you actually play the character though. What I know about bison, I stole from mike. :cybot:

Do it! :]

Low tier is way too much fun. Felicia’s getting the lab treatment next. I’m convinced she’s not hot garbage due to some minor delving into her bag o’ tricks.

Well, there are two friends of mine which play very serious Bison and Chun-li.
The Chun-li player is Shin (the one that made that vid showing Chun-li’s infinite and some more stuff) and, yeah, his Chun-li is NASTY…
I played him some days ago, he used Chun-li/Sentinel/Tron and gave a hell of a competition to my MSP…
a lost Magneto to a Chun-li reset a Couple of times…
I was rushing, then got hit by tron then a small combo into unblockable (stomp has some random unblockable properties, which he’s showed me, but I don’t know exactly how it works) then tron again into infinite and dead mags.

Also he plays very safely and is quite hard to catch him in a position Magneto has the upper hand.

Still, I’m not top player or anything but I have a pretty decent MSP… and that chun-li can compete on pair with it.


As for Bison, there’s a player in Brazil who MAINS Bison.
His team is Bison/Magneto/Doom and his screen name is Ishiyama.
Unfortunately, vids on him are outdated, stuff from 2, 3 years ago… and he’s a whole better now than he was at that date… but his bison can make a lot of pressure…

He’s very good catching Cables with Bisons Teleport.
and his main game goes around spamming that explosive ball things during blockstring while calling doom’s assist do chip.
and anytime he hit’s someone, he goes for a high damaging Psycho Crusher combo, and sometimes with a DHC to shockwave or something.

Bison has a LOT of priority in his normals…
that c.hp drives me insane and j.lp is also a very, very good normal from which Bison can connect a Psycho Crusher and DHC into anything hurting a lot.

Well, having fought competent Chun-li and Bison players, I’d say they can surely compete (in some disadvantage obviously) with top teams, If their team is well constructed.

Good shit guys. This is what this game needs. More discussion on under played characters.

@australopitecus

Can you ask Shin and Ishiyama to start recording their matches ? We need a LOT more vids on Chun and M. Bison.

Yes, I can… hehe

I already showed this topic to Ishiyama, and I’m sure he’ll be glad to be posting some footage of his Bison soon enough

According to SRK Wiki, Iron Man (B), Storm (A), Cable (B) is a pretty good team used by many Japanese.

“The point of this thread is, to see which character’s have the highest potential to compete vs the gods other then the top tier”.

Please continue to post, I have a lot of respect for you guys down there. Seem to be a lot of innovators among those players with only isolated pocket of competition-- i think we can all learn from each other.

@Shoultz regarding Gambit mixups-- even though its budget, on wakeup assist cancel into qcfKK off the wall super is a good option. And Gambit/Doom or beefy proj. assist gets to create ambiguity with Off the Wall P/K special. Maybe if you can cause force roll he gains some dash through options, not sure if he’s quick enough. He’s also one of the better characters for falling mixups after an air combo without a finisher bc of his good reach and weird sj air momentum.

Wow can my girl Rogue get alittle love in this thread she’s not even on Top Tier List but with the right combinations she can be nasty too that’s why she’s my bitch :rofl:

Rogue/Tron This duo is just nasty esp if you get Red Power Drain with Tron,crossup, Dive Kick, Tron repeat in the corner = one dead character other than Sent, Jugg, and some other High Stamina character

Rogue/CapCom/Sent, One of my favs, Capcom helps keep assists off her while she’s rushdown, and Sent helps lock them in after it’s all her with mixups and power draining every chance you get

I’ve been seeing alot of Rogue players online but to see one played well other Drumliner Joe I don’t see any Rogue players in High Level Comp probably because some of her weakness really gets exposed after awhile.

As far as I know Jin is a low tier beast, and he has some friggin’ amazing options vs. some of the Gods. Dynomite can stuff tri-jumps, his typhoon is good for pressure, etc. Plus his Blodia Vulcan hits super-jumpers, Blodia Punch connects with the character who is out if their assist gets hit into flying screen, all kinds of great stuff.

Higher-Jin made a whole thread devoted to Jin vs. Top/God tier, which made me so happy because I really like Jin, he’s so much fun.

Anyone got anything on Venom? Every time I use him vs. God tiers I feel like he has more options than I’m using but I still don’t know how to exploit them.

Wow! thank you very much for this belief.

I’ve been here at srk for quite a long time now, I rarely post here though, but I read the foruns a lot.

I’m participating a lot more now, helping to create a database for MvC2 bugs on PSN and XBL, and stuff…

Well, about our players, in majority, they’re all pretty straight forward, we mostly use techniques we found out by ourselves that were also found by you guys and things we just copied from you, so don’t expect to see something that much different, as you probably won’t.

In Brazil, MvC2 is probably our strongest game, so I think in this one we might be able to show you guys something you haven’t seen yet, as did Shin when he discovered all that stuff with Chun-li, or Ishiyama when he kept playing Bison for years… lol

There’s also Jonas, who uses Cable/Ken/Akuma as his main team and causes some major trouble at some tournaments. LOL

If you want to see some, search for Carlos (there’s even some matches of him against Justin Wong… and those matches are AMAZING imo), Nil, Gabriel, Zeca, Franklin, Jorge, Shin, Ishiyama, Cesaroach (Argentina), Ema (argentina), seilaoque (myself LOL!)

Carlos vs JWong: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_users&search_query=meialuavideos&uni=1
Nil vs Ema 1/2: [media=youtube]JLNoEHMxFqg[/media]
Nil vs Ema 2/2: [media=youtube]wrVZzCMwwPA[/media]
Nil vs Gabriel: [media=youtube]1ZdwAch2a8A[/media]
seilaoque vs Poucas Trancas 1/2: [media=youtube]RJP-s8Jz84I&feature=channel_page[/media]
seilaoque vs Poucas Trancas 2/2: [media=youtube]6x9OqnPEZrg&feature=channel_page[/media]
seilaoque vs gouki_psx 1/3: [media=youtube]Dbq62l0sB3E&feature=channel_page[/media]
seilaoque vs gouki_psx 2/3: [media=youtube]cUzWMc07exE&feature=channel_page[/media]
seilaoque vs gouki_psx 3/3: [media=youtube]BuzHEYiCw-4&feature=channel_page[/media]

as you can see, everything is pretty normal… lol.

I’ll try to tape some matches between myself and Ishiyama and maybe Zeca (who plays an amazing Blackheart and is awesome with every low tier in the game hehe) and Franklin…
I’ll bring some more material asap :lovin:

perhaps it’s because it was obvious and everyone understands how Rogue can wreck shop? heh, they’re trying to discuss the other less-common characters :tup:

THISSSSSS.

Rogues been good since like 02.

There was actually another rogue player before pat whom pat learned from. iirc, he didn’t play the same team as pat but the some of the mixups and tricks came from the other guy. Build upon what you learn folks.

What he said.lol*

Speaking of Rouge, do u guys feel she should be moved up along with the other top tiers(not god tier)?

As we all know, Vegita-x proved she can compete vs some of the best players.

from what I’ve heard, he can go toe to toe with Sent, but i have never seen it.

@australopitecus

really great vids dude. Hope to see some under used characters from u guys soon.

[quote=“Alucard20, post:39, topic:77162”]

What he said.lol*

Speaking of Rouge, do u guys feel she should be moved up along with the other top tiers(not god tier)?

As we all know, Vegita-x proved she can compete vs some of the best players.

QUOTE]

Sadly I would really like to move her up but she gets really expose once she can’t rush you down here go starters

No Projectile- doesn’t seem like much but Mag,Storm,Cable, Sent,Blackheart can all play keep away and by the time you near any of them you already ran out of time hell even Cyclops can do it to Rogue too

No Unblockables- I would say maybe about out of the five I think 3 has some great unblockable strings she may have one if I’m not mistaken

Doesn’t punish assists well, her DHC is not all that great but it does have some uses, her GNS go through Sent’s HSF but other that a Sent/Capcom would rape Rogue for Free.

I saw Vegita X Rogue it was good, her used how she but used a Meter Builder that you need to bring out a Burner Like Cable or Storm to use is all up b/c she hardly ever use it all.